Prospect Info: Pittsburgh Penguins Prospects Thread: 2023-2024 Edition

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Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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O'Connor had more points and was a +14 vs Poehlings -11
O'Connor is also 6 months younger.

Poehling had a lot of injury concerns. I completed understand not giving him the contract he got in Philly. Philly gave him 3 more minutes of ictime a game as well. He wouldn't have got that on the Pens with sully.

Honestly its whatever and not a guy worth caring about. He is another same lafferty its whatever.

Could've had both. DOC on L3 and Ryan Poehling as our 4C would've been way better than rolling into the season with Harkins, Nieto and Acciari making up half our bottom six. 1.4 million would've been great for what he brought to Philly.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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Feb 22, 2019
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I do think one of the biggest things to contribute to this team's steep and steady decline is their insistence on wasting like $8 million a year on miserable, do-nothing bottom-6 vets. Whether guys like Poulin, Pono, etc. are answers to that, I dunno, but they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper most likely.
 

cygnus47

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Sep 14, 2013
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I do think one of the biggest things to contribute to this team's steep and steady decline is their insistence on wasting like $8 million a year on miserable, do-nothing bottom-6 vets. Whether guys like Poulin, Pono, etc. are answers to that, I dunno, but they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper most likely.

And bring some energy and desire to the lineup.
 
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HandshakeLine

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I do think one of the biggest things to contribute to this team's steep and steady decline is their insistence on wasting like $8 million a year on miserable, do-nothing bottom-6 vets. Whether guys like Poulin, Pono, etc. are answers to that, I dunno, but they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper most likely.
Yeah, but again, you have to force the coaching staff's hand here. It's clear that several GMs have expressly catered to the coaching staff and year after year, it's the same story.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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Yeah, but again, you have to force the coaching staff's hand here. It's clear that several GMs have expressly catered to the coaching staff and year after year, it's the same story.
For sure. Do your best to take away the toys that'll inevitably be misused, let alone going out and spending relatively impactful money to get said broken toys.

But y'know, this organization's f***ing dogshit anymore so... Just another few years of this and then the rebuild can begin. Just hoping Sully's gone by then, but lord knows this stupid ownership group and GM probably salivate at the thought of him molding the game of the next crop of franchise pillars to be drafted. :laugh:
 
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Darren McCord

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Dec 15, 2015
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Could've had both. DOC on L3 and Ryan Poehling as our 4C would've been way better than rolling into the season with Harkins, Nieto and Acciari making up half our bottom six. 1.4 million would've been great for what he brought to Philly.

Sure but I am not going to lose sleep over it. This issue was the replacement not letting Poehling go. The could of brought in someone like Steel or a younger ufa over a guy like Nieto.

Poehling also was getting 18 -20 mins a night in Philly at the end of the season. That is absurd. He wouldn't be for the pens what he was in philly.
 

HandshakeLine

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Sure but I am not going to lose sleep over it. This issue was the replacement not letting Poehling go. The could of brought in someone like Steel or a younger ufa over a guy like Nieto.

Poehling also was getting 18 -20 mins a night in Philly at the end of the season. That is absurd. He wouldn't be for the pens what he was in philly.
He might not have been, same with McCann, but that isn't the player's fault. It's our fault for not being able to accommodate young players because we are/were stuffed to the brim with shitty vets who had/have no self-awareness.
 

Darren McCord

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Dec 15, 2015
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He might not have been, same with McCann, but that isn't the player's fault. It's our fault for not being able to accommodate young players because we are/were stuffed to the brim with shitty vets who had/have no self-awareness.

Sure but these are apples to oranges. McCann was a much better player. We definitely have a problem with brining in garbage vets though. Most NHL teams do. But I am not going to spend the offseason complaining about one 4th liner that was let to walk.

Like you said the issue is not playing the youth we have and bringing in crappy vets at a high price.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

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I was by no means a McCann fan, the opposite tbh, but the way this team refused to try and use him properly or get anything for him via trade because they had to protect BIG JEFF was just so, so dumb. And just the perfect microcosm of the deranged line of thinking by all the decision makers of this organization for years.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

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I do think this team's scouting and development areas have been total dogshit for the better part of a decade, but I think a good portion of this team's inability to produce any real NHL talent has been Sullivan's insistence on playing his lines as if he's got a 1st line (Sid), a typical 3rd line (Geno), and two 4th lines with zero two-way potential (and in this team's case, zero defensive or physical potential either).

It's been a mess all around.
 

HandshakeLine

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I was by no means a McCann fan, the opposite tbh, but the way this team refused to try and use him properly or get anything for him via trade because they had to protect BIG JEFF was just so, so dumb. And just the perfect microcosm of the deranged line of thinking by all the decision makers of this organization for years.
Yeah, like again, I know McCann wouldn't have developed here, but that's exactly what's wrong with this team. The whole model of running this team was always built in theory around young players coming in and providing cheap but effective production, warts and all. We haven't really done that since 2016, but that's what we keep telling ourselves we do.
 
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HandshakeLine

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Sure but these are apples to oranges. McCann was a much better player. We definitely have a problem with brining in garbage vets though. Most NHL teams do. But I am not going to spend the offseason complaining about one 4th liner that was let to walk.

Like you said the issue is not playing the youth we have and bringing in crappy vets at a high price.
Yeah, I don't think it's worth necessarily getting upset about one or two players that get away, it's the fact that most of these players seem to rebound immediately after going somewhere and getting ice time.

And people want us to sign Yager and throw him into this mess? :laugh:
 

Gurglesons

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Sure but I am not going to lose sleep over it. This issue was the replacement not letting Poehling go. The could of brought in someone like Steel or a younger ufa over a guy like Nieto.

Poehling also was getting 18 -20 mins a night in Philly at the end of the season. That is absurd. He wouldn't be for the pens what he was in philly.

Why not? A lot of us suggested Poehling in the top six for spells.

DOC was getting similar too after Jake’s departure.
 

chethejet

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Feb 4, 2012
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At the very least things are not nearly as bleak here with the prospects pool growing. DOC, is key here. If he adds some weight and becomes a bigger Kunitz would do wonders for Sid. Bunting also is a Kunitz type LW for Malkin and add Stephenson even with a slight overpay and Pens are set except for 3rd line RW. Here's hoping Jarry, Graves, Acciari, play better in 2024. Also Rakell stays healthy.
 

Gurglesons

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Dec 18, 2009
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last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
At the very least things are not nearly as bleak here with the prospects pool growing. DOC, is key here. If he adds some weight and becomes a bigger Kunitz would do wonders for Sid. Bunting also is a Kunitz type LW for Malkin and add Stephenson even with a slight overpay and Pens are set except for 3rd line RW. Here's hoping Jarry, Graves, Acciari, play better in 2024. Also Rakell stays healthy.

Our roster has not been bleak for several years. Our prospect system hasn’t been either.

What is bleak is our coaching decisions when it comes to development in both the AHL and NHL.
 

Freeptop

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Jun 17, 2009
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Just out of morbid curiosity, how many of our "safe" picks actually panned out?
I guess it depends on which picks you consider "safe" or not.

2006:
Staal was probably a safe pick at 2nd. Strait was also a safe pick, who at least made for himself an NHL career (if only barely, thanks to his 16 playoff games on top of 187 regular season games).
2007:
Esposito was actually not really a safe pick? There were reasons he fell, but the Pens took a chance on his talent. Fortunately, they moved him before he went completely bust.
Bortuzzo and Jeffrey were probably the safest picks of that draft class, and they both produced NHL careers, in the end.
2008:
These were all late picks, and none of them panned out, but Moon and D'Agostino both had some promise of possible talent, and goaltenders are voodoo, so I won't even try to evaluate them.
2009:
Despres was definitely a very Shero pick. At least Despres technically had an NHL career, which is more than can be said of the rest of that draft class. I'd say Hanowski, Velischek and Ekbom were at least attempts to go for prospects who weren't "safe". They didn't pan out, though. Samuelsson and Bathgate were probably considered "safe" picks due to lineage, but, man, scouts definitely overrate family names at times, and the Pens scouts in particular were guilty of that at times.
2010:
Rust was probably the "safest" pick they made in that draft, and he's ended up being the best player from that year's Penguins' Draft Class. Bennett was a case of taking a risk on someone who developed his skills in roller hockey. Kuhnhackl was taking a chance on a kid who was scoring over in Germany (he didn't come over to the OHL until after he was drafted), though there was a bit of also taking his father into consideration as well, so I guess it depends on how you want to count this one. I don't recall any of the other picks as being particularly "swing for the fences" types, though obviously none of the rest panned out at all.
2011:
Joe Morrow was actually McKenzie's top-ranked player available at the time the Pens picked, as I recall, so even with Shero's propensity for taking defensemen, I have a hard time faulting this pick, without making use of hindsight. Harrington and Archibald were the safe picks of this draft class, and they managed to have NHL careers. Uher was probably the biggest swing for the fences they took, and he's the only one to completely bust out. Honestly, this was a pretty good draft year for the Pens - 5 picks, and 4 of them went on to have NHL careers, with two of them contributing to a Cup run.
2012:
Not much more to say about Pouliot here than has been said over the years on these boards. At least he had an NHL career.
Maatta was probably a reasonably "safe" pick, especially at 22nd, and he turned out pretty well for the Pens, no?
Blueger was a case of taking a chance on a kid who had shown some talent at Shattuck St. Mary's, as I recall. Sundqvist was someone who was probably a "safe" pick at the time he was taken, and he's done pretty well.
Maguire and Seymour were the "safe" picks of the late rounds, but Marcantuoni and Zlobin were also high-risk high-reward types (who both busted out).
Again, a pretty good draft for the Pens: 5 NHL players, including the goaltender who backstopped two Cup wins, and a defenseman who was a significant contributor for those same two Cups.
2013:
Guentzel was definitely a swing for the fences type, where they were taking a bet that he would grow after he was drafted.
None of the picks after Guentzel panned out, safe or risky.
2014:
Lafferty was basically a "safe" pick in that he was a low-ceiling low-risk player, and he's managed an NHL career.
2015:
Sprong, Simon, Tiffels and Pavlychev. Sprong was the "safest" pick of the lot.
2016-2017:
Probably the worst period of time with regards to picking "safe" over "risk/reward". Just terrible drafts all around for both years, where there weren't many big swings taken. These two drafts alone are probably the most impactful on where the Pens are now (in terms of lack of youth), since the last 2-3 years is when players from these drafts should have been starting to really take full-time jobs with the team.
2018:
Were any of these picks really "safe" picks? Granted, there were only 4 picks, and only Addison has made anything of himself, but I wouldn't say they went for safe choices there.
2019:
Poulin was probably the "safe" pick here. I don't know much about Caulfield, but the rest of the picks were definitely cases of taking chances on prospects who had at least one attribute that was intriguing.

After that point, I think it's still a bit too soon to really judge whether they're actually going to pan our or not (considering Puustinen only just got his first real shot this past season).

I'm not trying to defend taking safe picks, mind you - but there were quite a few "safe" picks who really did pan out. I just think that the bigger problem has just been not making space on the NHL roster for them to have a chance to make the team. I'd rather have given Hallander a chance than bringing back Archibald, or bringing in Caggiula during the 22/23 season, for example.

I've said it before, and I'll keep saying it - the Pens should really keep at least 2-3 spots open on the roster every season for prospects to rotate through so they can see what they've got. With where the Pens are at now, I'd increase that number, really.
 

Ryder71

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Nov 24, 2017
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That's great that he thinks that, and his opinion should be respected. However he's a year away.

Our roster has not been bleak for several years. Our prospect system hasn’t been either.

What is bleak is our coaching decisions when it comes to development in both the AHL and NHL.
I think you're mistaking aging out with stifling young talent. This coming season will be the 1st chance for that in quite some time. We actually have some promising prospects now. NOT world beaters but guys who can help move this team forward over the next 2 to 4 years.
 
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