Proposal: Pitt - LA

[OtherThingsILike]

Are you really that dense and clueless? The Flyers sent assets to Arizona to open up cap space, and that’s with a player with a lower AAV than Zucker. Are you even aware of how much cap space your Penguins have?

Andrew Ladd has the exact same AAV as Zucker, look at what it cost the Isles to get rid of two years of a $5.5M cap hit from their books.

I see what you mean by how dumb this site can be, especially when clueless homers interject with dumb comments.

TIL all players with the same cap hit are the same quality of player.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

What are Pens looking to do in a Zucker trade?

Trade a potentially useful player who doesn't fit here but who has found a fit in other situations.

 

[stardog]

Whatever you say, homer.

I've read posts from you for years and seeing you immediately turn aggressive, condescending and resort to name calling when someone successfully counters your point is typical... predictable
But hearing YOU, of all people, actually doing so by attempting to berate someone for being a homer is possibly the most ironic of things I've seen in awhile...it's funny...as if you attack someone else for being a homer, everyone might forget your blatant homerism but all it proves is your hypocrisy.
I mean geez, even you know what a homer you are.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I've read posts from you for years and seeing you immediately turn aggressive, condescending and resort to name calling when someone successfully counters your point is typical... predictable
But hearing YOU, of all people, actually doing so by attempting to berate someone for being a homer is possibly the most ironic of things I've seen in awhile...it's funny...as if you attack someone else for being a homer, everyone might forget your blatant homerism but all it proves is your hypocrisy.
I mean geez, even you know what a homer you are.

Oh look, another oversensitive Pens fan who is crying about my posts. What statements were made on my part where I displayed any shred of homerism towards the Kings? Was it the fact that I pointed out how Zucker isn't worth his contract that got your jammies in a bunch?

 

[stardog]

I like how you think you have a better grasp on the Penguins can situation than Penguins fans do.

Every Penguins fan is well aware with where the team sits with the cap. They're fine with the cap. They're not going big game hunting and are going to use whatever cap space they have left to upgrade on Jarry and sign a cheap replacement for McCann. That's about all they're going to do this off-season.

They were in an iffy position with the cap before the expansion draft, but they're not now. They have between $3 and $4 million to play with after they fill out their roster.

They had a cheap replacement for McCann.
Jared McCann.

He was the 5th highest scorer on the team and did it playing less minutes than every other regular forward on the team. And without the benefit of regular Malkin/Sid time. Led the league in PPG per60 which is cool as he was also one of the top in even strength points per 60...and top 20 in the NHL in pts per 60, Goals per60, top 50 Ast. per 60 while being at the top of, or top 3 on the team in every single of the popular advanced metrics while only 25.

Sullivan totally "Spronged" him...or tried to but McCann still played excellent despite his coaches incompetence

How exactly will the Pens replace that and do so "cheapy"?

Just a stupid and disgusting trade and a waste of assets.

 

[Night Shift]

Oh look, another oversensitive Pens fan who is crying about my posts. What statements were made on my part where I displayed any shred of homerism towards the Kings? Was it the fact that I pointed out how Zucker isn't worth his contract that blah blah blah

Ziggy status

 

[Night Shift]

Thank you. I appreciate the compliment.

You're welcome clown

 

[deaderhead28]

It’s also a shame that we can go back and find posts from your past where you admit what little value a player like Zucker has due to his contract.
Salary Cap: - Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Sign Beau Bennett

Just about every sensible Pens fan that isn’t a being a homer in that discussion accepts the fact that Zucker’s contract is a hindrance.

So, who is being disingenuous here, mister hand short of a full deck?

 

[deaderhead28]

You're welcome clown

You definitely wear it better el payaso

 

[deaderhead28]

I've read posts from you for years and seeing you immediately turn aggressive, condescending and resort to name calling when someone successfully counters your point is typical... predictable
But hearing YOU, of all people, actually doing so by attempting to berate someone for being a homer is possibly the most ironic of things I've seen in awhile...it's funny...as if you attack someone else for being a homer, everyone might forget your blatant homerism but all it proves is your hypocrisy.
I mean geez, even you know what a homer you are.

 

[Night Shift]

You definitely wear it better el payaso
View attachment 456199

Coming from someone who likes himself some Mr Rodgers.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The value of Zucker vs. a UFA is his term is 2 years. He may work out in the right system/line combos. He may not - as we've seen in Pitt for the most part. He has good attributes that make him interesting, and flaws that limit him as a player.

He's a fine fallback option for a team who misses out on Plan A in Free Agency and doesn't want to pay Plan B for six years. He is under contract for two.

I would happily give him away for free, but I know the org will want probably a mid-rounder (like a 4th for him). Zucker +$750K retained for a 3rd sounds about right.

 

[66-30-33]

The value of Zucker vs. a UFA is his term is 2 years. He may work out in the right system/line combos. He may not - as we've seen in Pitt for the most part. He has good attributes that make him interesting, and flaws that limit him as a player.

He's a fine fallback option for a team who misses out on Plan A in Free Agency and doesn't want to pay Plan B for six years. He is under contract for two.

I would happily give him away for free, but I know the org will want probably a mid-rounder (like a 4th for him). Zucker +$750K retained for a 3rd sounds about right.

If Pens are retaining that much I want back what Arvidsson got.

 

[ChaosAgent]

If Pens are retaining that much I want back what Arvidsson got.

Is $750k some crazy amount to retain?

Sure, I guess. I mean let's just get as much as possible. I think he'll be better traded after teams strike out on their FA targets. He's no one's first choice right now but he'll look more attractive as a backup plan.

 

[66-30-33]

Is $750k some crazy amount to retain?

Sure, I guess. I mean let's just get as much as possible. I think he'll be better traded after teams strike out on their FA targets. He's no one's first choice right now but he'll look more attractive as a backup plan.

It brings him much closer to Arvidssons cap hit so yeah. They have been pretty comparable the last couple of seasons so LA or another team I'd want a 2nd back too. Why deny the same type of value? We are also paying JJ 1.9 next season on top of 750K for Zucker of dead cap space for a few years of contending.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It brings him much closer to Arvidssons cap hit so yeah. They have been pretty comparable the last couple of seasons so LA or another team I'd want a 2nd back too. Why deny the same type of value? We are also paying JJ 1.9 next season on top of 750K for Zucker of dead cap space for a few years of contending.

I always thought Arvidsson was good. But I'm a dweeb and probably just mentally associated him with Daniel Alfreddson or something (this may legit be true)

Zucker has not looked like a good player for the majority of his time as a Pen. He's a tweener. He doesn't have the grit/jam or the contract to be a good 3rd liner with elite finishing ability but doesn't have the hockey IQ to truly compliment a scoring line center. He plays in parallel to the rest of his line and sometimes scores out of sheer talent & sick hands. But Malkin has no idea what he's doing out there or how to use him.

His best fit is as a pure finisher to a center who plays a linear, simple game and can do the dirty work. If we are forced to hang onto him I think he could actually do well next to Carter.

 

[66-30-33]

I always thought Arvidsson was good. But I'm a dweeb and probably just mentally associated him with Daniel Alfreddson or something (this may legit be true)

Zucker has not looked like a good player for the majority of his time as a Pen. He's a tweener. He doesn't have the grit/jam or the contract to be a good 3rd liner with elite finishing ability but doesn't have the hockey IQ to truly compliment a scoring line center. He plays in parallel to the rest of his line and sometimes scores out of sheer talent & sick hands. But Malkin has no idea what he's doing out there or how to use him.

His best fit is as a pure finisher to a center who plays a linear, simple game and can do the dirty work. If we are forced to hang onto him I think he could actually do well next to Carter.

I am fine keeping Zucker, he's pretty underrated even among Pens fans. He's a slight bit overpaid due to his career year which is why he would get chewed on as his contract does not fit the production.

 

[Night Shift]

His best fit is as a pure finisher to a center who plays a linear, simple game and can do the dirty work. If we are forced to hang onto him I think he could actually do well next to Carter.

IIRC- he started playing better with Carter

 

[ChaosAgent]

I am fine keeping Zucker, he's pretty underrated even among Pens fans. He's a slight bit overpaid due to his career year which is why he would get chewed on as his contract does not fit the production.

Though some of the arguments in this thread are dramatic, I have noticed with the Expansion Draft and flat cap that teams ARE more concerned with on-ice-value relative to cap than ever before. Especially with the way Tampa paid handsomely to get value > cap hit guys in Coleman and Goodrow. Given the way Zucker has looked as a Penguin and the way his lines have performed, beyond his individual goal totals, he's overpaid by a pretty good amount.

Still relative to unrestricted free agency you know there's going to be 8-10 contracts where the value relative to production is worse...and teams will be locked in for 5 years. From that standpoint if you think you have the right fit (again, handsome sturdy center who builds handsome sturdy walls), getting a 2-year commitment for Zuck feels like a free trial versus an anchor.

 

[Tender Rip]

It’s also a shame that we can go back and find posts from your past where you admit what little value a player like Zucker has due to his contract.
Salary Cap: - Pittsburgh Penguins Salary Cap Thread - Sign Beau Bennett

Just about every sensible Pens fan that isn’t a being a homer in that discussion accepts the fact that Zucker’s contract is a hindrance.

So, who is being disingenuous here, mister hand short of a full deck?

Bah! You elect to ignore the context entirely! You nincompoop, you!

Yes, I would have been fine with Zucker getting picked to open more space.
Yes, I find that on the Pens he us not a top6 player because he doesn’t work with Malkin and isnt given a shot with Sid (with whom he did well in 19-20).

Hence Penguins should be able to get a cheaper bottom 6 player in free agency. Penguins.

That doesn’t mean his intrinsic value is like that. Zucker is the kind of player who can obviously be top 6 on the right team.

Zucker is a more valuable hockey player on many teams than Tanev for instance. But he isn’t better at being a bottom 6 energy player.
When Zucker is eventually traded, it will be for a team that has an opening/fit in the top6.

And with Geno being injured to start the season, most likely Zucker starts with Carter and Kapanen on the Pens top6.

 

[WesMantooth]

Zucker's still an effective middle-6 player, he's just overpaid by about $1.5 million.

exactly. If we could trade Petterson I’d be fine keeping Zucker. He’s good for 20-30G in a full season on a 2nd line.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

1. Dorothy Mantooth is a saint!

2. I don't see any reason to get rid of Zucker unless the Pens can guarantee themselves a player that can play on the top 2 lines via free agency or a trade. If they get rid of Zucker then who plays LW2 or LW1? People on the Pens board seem to think there is some magical player at the end of that journey when in all reality the Pens are stuck holding the bag when no-one signs with the Pens.

3. Getting rid of Pettersson is the right move. Then use that cap space for another Top 9 player. Which is why I can see the Pens either retaining 600K on Pettersson's contract or buying him out. If they really really want to clear the cap space.

 

[Jerkbait]

Trade a potentially useful player who doesn't fit here but who has found a fit in other situations.

Yes and who's value has plummeted and was widely considered an over rated player before ehe ever went to pitt. Thinking they are stuck with him for a bit

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

he’s got no value but I don’t think it’s all that warranted. Sure he’s expensive and not fit perfectly but has paced for 20 G, 20 A in a Pens jersey while being mostly miscast and away from PP1. He looked amazing on L1 then never got put there again. Played with Malkin in Malkin’s worst season of career. Only 2 years left. Good effort every shift, good forechecker too.

Id rather keep him than get a 5th or something shitty then sign someone else to 4 years. He’s not some must move.

 

[Kurrilino]

he’s got no value but I don’t think it’s all that warranted. Sure he’s expensive and not fit perfectly but has paced for 20 G, 20 A in a Pens jersey while being mostly miscast and away from PP1. He looked amazing on L1 then never got put there again. Played with Malkin in Malkin’s worst season of career. Only 2 years left. Good effort every shift, good forechecker too.

Id rather keep him than get a 5th or something shitty then sign someone else to 4 years. He’s not some must move.

Yep this should have been the answer since page 1.
We don't need/want him and you guys try to get something or keep him. This is a bad mix