Proposal: Pitt - LA

[Goalie_Bob]

Wow!

The Pens need a whole three bottom 6 players to fill out their roster and have 7 mil to make that happen. Whatever will they do…..,.,,,

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Wow!

The Pens need a whole three bottom 6 players to fill out their roster and have 7 mil to make that happen. Whatever will they do…..,.,,,

Ice the same exact team that went out with a whimper in the first round? That seems like a good plan. I’m sure making upgrades to the roster won’t cost anything at all.

 

[Crown Royal]

I never commented on the original proposal, I'm saying that the idea that Zucker has negative value or Zucker is comparable to Ladd is stupid.

Zucker's value is low, it's probably like a 3rd or 4th right now if the Penguins aren't taking back any money. I'm arguing against the asinine claim that he somehow has negative value.

Then we are in agreement that the original post is a bad proposal. Now as far as negative value is concerned, you have a player who you admit is overpaid by $1.5 million. Isn’t that another way of saying his contract has negative value and that the Pens would need to add something to balance out a deal to move him?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Then we are in agreement that the original post is a bad proposal. Now as far as negative value is concerned, you have a player who you admit is overpaid by $1.5 million. Isn’t that another way of saying his contract has negative value and that the Pens would need to add something to balance out a deal to move him?

No, that's absolutely absurd. A player does not inherently have negative value because they're overpaid, that's a ridiculous jump in logic. A player being overpaid decreases their value from their "fairly paid" value, it doesn't necessarily make it negative.

With Zucker being overpaid, he's worth a 3rd or 4th right now. If he was making $4 million (which is what is fair for him), he'd be worth more than a 3rd or 4th. If Zucker was making $4 million, a 2nd for him straight up is pretty reasonable.

Zucker isn't overpaid enough to take his value from a 2nd (which is roughly his value if he was fairly paid) to negative value. Him being overpaid takes him from a 2nd to a 3rd or 4th in value with the flat cap.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Ice the same exact team that went out with a whimper in the first round? That seems like a good plan. I’m sure making upgrades to the roster won’t cost anything at all.

Upgrades don’t have to cost money. See the 2016 and 2017 Pens who upgraded by giving some of their young players playing time. And they made a few shrewd trades.

Building a team isn’t all about money but about the mix of players. Otherwise Toronto would have won a cup since 1967.

 

[Kurrilino]

Absolutely not for a 2nd.
If any it will be Zucker +1st for a 7th.
He is 29 and is not fitting into any of our age groups.

 

[Crown Royal]

No, that's absolutely absurd. A player does not inherently have negative value because they're overpaid, that's a ridiculous jump in logic. A player being overpaid decreases their value from their "fairly paid" value, it doesn't necessarily make it negative.

With Zucker being overpaid, he's worth a 3rd or 4th right now. If he was making $4 million (which is what is fair for him), he'd be worth more than a 3rd or 4th. If Zucker was making $4 million, a 2nd for him straight up is pretty reasonable.

Zucker isn't overpaid enough to take his value from a 2nd (which is roughly his value if he was fairly paid) to negative value. Him being overpaid takes him from a 2nd to a 3rd or 4th in value with the flat cap.

I don’t think I’m making a ridiculous jump in logic at all and I don’t really follow or subscribe to your pretzel logic. I’m not trying to start an argument or tell you Zucker is crap. I am saying his $1.5 million overpayment is a bit of an albatross around his neck

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don’t think I’m making a ridiculous jump in logic at all and I don’t really follow or subscribe to your pretzel logic. I’m not trying to start an argument or tell you Zucker is crap. I am saying his $1.5 million overpayment is a bit of an albatross around his neck

The point I was making is that while he's overpaid, he's not overpaid enough to make his value negative. Him being overpaid by like $1.5 million takes his value from a 2nd to a 3rd or 4th. It is a negative factor, just not big enough to sink his value into the negative range.

 

[66-30-33]

Absolutely not for a 2nd.
If any it will be Zucker +1st for a 7th.
He is 29 and is not fitting into any of our age groups.

You literally just traded a 2nd and a 3rd for a guy 1 year younger with comparable stats lol. Zucker and a 1st for a 7th? Like WHat?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know Stepan only had 1 year left instead of 2 years left, so it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but I find it hilarious that Stepan went for a 2nd but fans in here are somehow arguing that Zucker would cost a 1st to get rid of.

 

[Mats26]

I would of rather paid the scraps for McCann. Kings are not touching Zucker and his contract with a 10 foot pole.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Zucker hasn't lived up to expectations, but to insinuate that he's a negative asset is just absurd. If he's dangled and nobody offers anything, just keep him. The Pens are not in a cap situation right now that requires Hextall to move any more contracts (I'm sure he'd love more cap space, but it'd be a luxury and not a need) and there's plenty of reasons to expect Zucker to mildly bounce-back outside of covid times, even if he's not the player the Penguins acquired him to be.

Personally I hold little hope of Zucker playing up to his contract before it expires, but he'd have to fall off another cliff before I'm talking about paying someone to just take him. Andrew Ladd is 6 years older and last played a NHL game before the Covid shutdown. Under no lighting are they even remotely in comparable situations.

Not sure why LA would pay an asset for him right now, but that doesn't mean it'd make any sense for Pittsburgh to pay someone just to get rid of him. He's 29, not 39, and produced well in the very brief time he had in Pittsburgh pre-pandemic. I ain't about to write a sonnet extolling his virtue, but I ain't making a roadtrip to drive him to the airport, either.

 

[PensandCaps]

The Penguins should be the ones including a second round pick for the Kings to take Zucker, who is owed over $11M in the last two years of his contract.

lol

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No, the dense and clueless one seems to be you. How the f*** is Andrew Ladd even remotely comparable to Zucker? Zucker is still an effective player today. Zucker is coming off a season of about a 20 goal, 40 point pace.

Zucker is a slightly overpaid middle-6 winger. To compare him to Ladd is so laughably dumb and it fits exactly into the dumb claims this website makes.

So, why would the Kings be interested? If there's one thing we're not short on, it's middling scorers, and we could just promote a prospect...

I don't hate the idea, but LA isn't going to spend assets just to spend assets, if you've been paying attention to what Rob Blake has been doing. He could just go get Saad or Schwartz for free and for a team that's not going to be ultra competitive it's better to keep the assets imo.

That being said IIRC the Kings were linked to Zucker before as well so if they like him I'm not totally opposed though I think a 2nd is a little rich unless it's conditional.

 

[Lt Dan]

So, why would the Kings be interested? If there's one thing we're not short on, it's middling scorers, and we could just promote a prospect...

I don't hate the idea, but LA isn't going to spend assets just to spend assets, if you've been paying attention to what Rob Blake has been doing. He could just go get Saad or Schwartz for free and for a team that's not going to be ultra competitive it's better to keep the assets imo.

That being said IIRC the Kings were linked to Zucker before as well so if they like him I'm not totally opposed though I think a 2nd is a little rich unless it's conditional.

This

Especially considering that the ask is a 2nd.
The second round is where we get all magical and shit

 

[Empoleon8771]

So, why would the Kings be interested? If there's one thing we're not short on, it's middling scorers, and we could just promote a prospect...

I don't hate the idea, but LA isn't going to spend assets just to spend assets, if you've been paying attention to what Rob Blake has been doing. He could just go get Saad or Schwartz for free and for a team that's not going to be ultra competitive it's better to keep the assets imo.

That being said IIRC the Kings were linked to Zucker before as well so if they like him I'm not totally opposed though I think a 2nd is a little rich unless it's conditional.

I wasn't commenting on whether the original deal is fair or makes sense, I was commenting on the asinine claims that Zucker has negative value. I don't think Zucker can bring back a 2md right now unless the Penguins are taking back some money, and I don't know why anyone would trade for him before seeing how the situations with Saad and Schwartz play out.

I think Zucker for a $2.5 million bottom-6 player and a 2nd is reasonable after Schwartz and Saad sign. That's pretty much exactly what Leddy brought back. I don't know if LA makes sense with that, but I think that general framework is reasonable.

 

[Gurglesons]

Zucker likely returns a 2nd.

 

[KingsOfThe805]

No, the dense and clueless one seems to be you. How the f*** is Andrew Ladd even remotely comparable to Zucker? Zucker is still an effective player today. Zucker is coming off a season of about a 20 goal, 40 point pace.
Doh!
Zucker is a slightly overpaid middle-6 winger. To compare him to Ladd is so laughably dumb and it fits exactly into the dumb claims this website makes.

Doh!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Doh!

Amazing argument, you've convinced me!

The arguments in here for Zucker having negative value are all trash.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

From Rob Rossi:

Pettersson and winger Jason Zucker are thought to be available, and Hextall is expected to continue exploring moving one if not both this summer. Their cap hits — Zucker is at $5.5 million, with Pettersson at $4,025,175 — are problematic because Hextall intends to open contract talks with winger Bryan Rust and defenseman Letang early in August and would prefer to have established parameters of potential new deals for each going into next season.

Pens fans offended by the thought of having to send an asset with Zucker to remove his cap hit are in denial. I guess we'll see in due time what ends up happening with him, but describing that contract as problematic doesn't sound like an asset, does it?

 

[kinghock]

Zucker likely returns a 2nd.

not likely

 

[Empoleon8771]

From Rob Rossi:


Pens fans offended by the thought of having to send an asset with Zucker to remove his cap hit are in denial. I guess we'll see in due time what ends up happening with him, but describing that contract as problematic doesn't sound like an asset, does it?

And the NYI had to move Nick Leddy, who makes $5.5 million a year, and they got a bottom-6 winger and a 2nd for him.

You've already thrown out any shred of credibility you may have had by comparing Zucker to Ladd, so I don't even know why you're in this thread at this point.

 

[Gurglesons]

not likely

He’s one year removed from putting up 20-20 in 60 games and his contract while not ideal is fair value when a Goodrow just signed for 3.5 in UFA.

One bad season where he was injured and away from his family all season that culminated in 2 goals and 1 assist in the playoffs isn’t going to change his value from a 1st and Addison to nothing.

 

[KingsOfThe805]

Zucker likely returns a 2nd.

What else is Pitt adding?

 

[kinghock]

He’s one year removed from putting up 20-20 in 60 games and his contract while not ideal is fair value when a Goodrow just signed for 3.5 in UFA.

One bad season where he was injured and away from his family all season that culminated in 2 goals and 1 assist in the playoffs isn’t going to change his value from a 1st and Addison to nothing.

You are entitle to your opinion and we will see soon if you are correct.