OT: Pirates Talk: That Skenes guy is okay at teh baseball

[Wattsburgh]

The Pirates don't have the money of the Cubs.

They need to operate like the Brewers, but even the Brewers are victims of the inequality that the MLB has. They traded their star closer to the Yankees earlier today .

True.

 

[ImporterExporter]

I think DJ was fair in his take on Cherington (not liking him) while accepting that he's greatly hamstrung by Nutting/MLB, which every person needs to accept as fact before casting blame.

I still maintain that Shelton is the biggest issue at the ML level if we're talking non-players. When we hired Hurdle, he had a track record. There was some winning along the way, at the ML level. Shelton was a nobody, in the grand scheme. We could have canned him 2 offseasons ago and made a real push at Bochy. Probably wasn't even considered and if it was, Nutting/MLB shot it down because "financial". And despite having an abysmal record over half a decade, he's still employed.

Cherington is a WS winner and the following WS won by Boston was largely done with players he brought in. That's a hellova big gap between he and Shelton.

Cherington, and I'll admit I've soured on him (still less so than others given his shackles) has done a largely fantastic job with the pitching development. Almost completely the opposite on the offensive side of things. And at the end of the day, he hired Shelton and obviously feels a strong attachment. Regardless, Shelton has not proven a damn thing in 5 years. Numerous managers have been canned, on big and small market teams with better resumes over that time frame. So why not here?

BC's been quite inconsistent with player swaps. Same story in FA, though that will happen given you're always scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel and he's made some of those budget players work.

I appreciate a quick jump out of the gate, trying to add to the offense, even if I have my reservations about the trade itself.

I shudder to think what we'll get back if Jones or Keller are dealt and the news that payroll won't increase a dime, even with Skenes, just further cements we are not witnessing a serious org.

 

[BusinessGoose]

At least we got some new blood as hitting coach and someone new with the pitching staff

Shelton 4D chess'd himself into a few wins... And a ton of losses, last year

But I'm not quite sure if it matters he's here if our guys have some better strategy behind the plate...

 

[Wattsburgh]

Do you guys think we will ever see a Salary Cap in our lifetime? I mean people have to be tired of seeing the same teams buy World Series every FA.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Do you guys think we will ever see a Salary Cap in our lifetime? I mean people have to be tired of seeing the same teams buy World Series every FA.

Not until MLB starts losing money from lowered sports betting interest

... So.

No

 

[Ulf5]

Emmanuel Valdez, Buccos problems are solved.

Pirates Acquire Enmanuel Valdez

The Pirates and Red Sox announced a trade that will see infielder Enmanuel Valdez head to Pittsburgh in exchange for …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

 

[Coastal Kev]

Not until MLB starts losing money from lowered sports betting interest

... So.

No

Only the smaller markets which are in the majority could force one, but they haven't. Why not? Because they invested millions and are making billions.

It's no longer a sport, over half of the teams first interest is maximizing profit, with the Pirates being the most transparent with their intentions.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Emmanuel Valdez, Buccos problems are solved.

Pirates Acquire Enmanuel Valdez

The Pirates and Red Sox announced a trade that will see infielder Enmanuel Valdez head to Pittsburgh in exchange for …

www.mlbtraderumors.com

Another f***ing infielder.

 

[Ulf5]

Another f***ing infielder.

Light hitting too and small in stature. But he has position flexibility!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Light hitting too and small in stature. But he has position flexibility!

This isn't even close to what Valdez is.

He's a power hitter that is awful defensively. He was once a good prospect and the Pirates are getting him as a sort of Joe/Olivares reclamation project. Skeptical it pans out but he has a .475 SLG in the minors, so it's a worthwhile gamble.

It will probably be more like Olivares than Joe, but if they can get a useful bench bat/pinch hitter out of him, I'll be happy.

 

[Ulf5]

This isn't even close to what Valdez is.

He's a power hitter that is awful defensively. He was once a good prospect and the Pirates are getting him as a sort of Joe/Olivares reclamation project. Skeptical it pans out but he has a .475 SLG in the minors, so it's a worthwhile gamble.

It will probably be more like Olivares than Joe, but if they can get a useful bench bat/pinch hitter out of him, I'll be happy.

DFA in 10, 9, 8....

 

[Empoleon8771]

DFA in 10, 9, 8....

They got him for a 19th round pick from last year and he might have some MLB power hitting upside. I genuinely do not see a reason to be mad about the move.

 

[Ulf5]

They got him for a 19th round pick from last year and he might have some MLB power hitting upside. I genuinely do not see a reason to be mad about the move.

Meh, similar mlb games, slg and ops as Gonzales. More of the same.

 

[DJ Spinoza]

It's basically just throwing shit at the wall. We also did it with Nick Solak on a minor league deal. You might fall backwards into a useable MLB part-time player with one of these guys, but the reason we are able to churn through so many of these guys is because the depth is so bad and we aren't really generating any internal guys to throw at the wall.

It's all sort of whatever until we make any kind of major move. We'll be the same kinda good at times, but ultimately somewhere between just outside the fringe of the WC race or just outside the top-5 or so lottery positions.

The options for optimism now are basically 1) hope Horowitz not only maintains what he showed last year but somehow doubles his power; 2) hope for Hayes back from the time (if it were a move, it would be the remake of a remake of a remake); or 3) I guess if you want to get weird, a total renaissance for Henry Davis, even though he still doesn't really have a position.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At this point, I think the only way the Pirates are going to get a notable upgrade to their roster (namely OF) is by trading Keller. They only have around $15-$17 million to fill out the roster with what Nutting is allowing them to do, and they want to add both a reliever and OFer with that money. Sending Keller out for an OFer (ideally one that is cheaper) can at least address one of those spots and you can likely get a Gibson/Heany type of FA pitcher to replace Keller for less money.

The best case scenario is pulling off someone like Kjerstad for Keller because it gives them a lot of money both now and going forward, but even if it's more of an equal salary swap, I think they're in a better position to make a good roster with $17 million to spend on a starter and reliever than $17 million to spend on a LFer and a reliever.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

At this point, I think the only way the Pirates are going to get a notable upgrade to their roster (namely OF) is by trading Keller. They only have around $15-$17 million to fill out the roster with what Nutting is allowing them to do, and they want to add both a reliever and OFer with that money. Sending Keller out for an OFer (ideally one that is cheaper) can at least address one of those spots and you can likely get a Gibson/Heany type of FA pitcher to replace Keller for less money.

The best case scenario is pulling off someone like Kjerstad for Keller because it gives them a lot of money both now and going forward, but even if it's more of an equal salary swap, I think they're in a better position to make a good roster with $17 million to spend on a starter and reliever than $17 million to spend on a LFer and a reliever.

Reports say they want a cost controlled OF for Keller and i don’t think they worry about a free agent starter because Bubba and Ashcraft will be up early
I really hope they use the 22 million saved from Taylor Perez and Champen for a real hitter to go with the guy they get in a Keller trade

 

[Empoleon8771]

Reports say they want a cost controlled OF for Keller and i don’t think they worry about a free agent starter because Bubba and Ashcraft will be up early
I really hope they use the 22 million saved from Taylor Perez and Champen for a real hitter to go with the guy they get in a Keller trade

Nah they absolutely need to sign a FA starter to replace Keller, at least a 1 year deal for someone. Even if Oviedo returns to 2023 form next year, which would be a lot to ask of him after TJS, he shouldn't be above a #4 starter. They need to bring in another mid rotation guy if they trade Keller, even if it's just another Perez/Gonzales type of guy.

If they're trading Keller for a cost controlled OF like Kjerstad, they'll have plenty of money to add a starter to replace him. Trading Keller for Kjerstad and signing Heaney to a $15 million deal is about a wash with money, and I think their hitters (minus DH) and SPs would be set with doing that. They'd have like $15 million left to sign McCutchen and then bring in a high leverage bullpen arm.

I think the ideal scenario I'd be shooting for is:

1. Keller for Kjerstad (saves $15 million)
2. Sign Heaney to a 2 year, $30 million deal
3. Sign either Scott or Hoffman to a 2 year, $24 million deal
4. Bring McCutchen back for the same 1 year, $5 million deal

That's adding a total of $17 million, which is about what they'd need to add to meet payroll from last year.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Nah they absolutely need to sign a FA starter to replace Keller, at least a 1 year deal for someone. Even if Oviedo returns to 2023 form next year, which would be a lot to ask of him after TJS, he shouldn't be above a #4 starter. They need to bring in another mid rotation guy if they trade Keller, even if it's just another Perez/Gonzales type of guy.

If they're trading Keller for a cost controlled OF like Kjerstad, they'll have plenty of money to add a starter to replace him. Trading Keller for Kjerstad and signing Heany to a $15 million deal is about a wash with money, and I think their hitters (minus DH) and SPs would be set with doing that. They'd have like $15 million left to sign McCutchen and then bring in a high leverage bullpen arm.

Ben already said they weren’t bringing in a high leverage pen arm when interviewed on mlb network last week

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looks like Luzardo to the Cubs is happening. I understand what the Cubs are doing but I honestly don't think they're looking like they'll be anything special, they'll be a "one and done" in the playoffs IMO.

I'm curious to see how their lineup ends up looking. They're obviously trying to get rid of Bellinger, but I think moving Suzuki also makes a lot of sense. They already have Happ, Crow-Armstrong and Tucker as their OF for next year, so whichever one of Bellinger or Suzuki that is back next year has to play DH. That said, Suzuki is also far worse defensively than I thought he was, so maybe him playing DH wouldn't be all that big of an issue. I had always thought of Suzuki as a plus RFer defensively, but I guess not.