Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?

[CasualFan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=6185492&campaign=rss&source=NHLHeadlines





WOW! What will this do to the deal? Any takes!?

goyotes, I stand corrected. Glendale is desperate enough to take this absurd action. You were right, I was mistaken.

Casual Beads sales begin at SFO Intl Arpt on Monday morning.

 

[King Woodballs]

If glendale couldnt get anymore ****ed up
Good luck sueing gwi

 

[GKJ]

I hope none of you took it seriously with all the reports over the last week of "yeah, it could happen if the floor drops out, but it won't, and it'll be finalized next week."

Someone might want to explain what this really means, and I'm not talking about an explanation that begins and ends with "the Jets are back."

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Just for grins, here is an article on the concession contract for UoP Stadium, which was done by competitive bid.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2010/02/01/daily55.html

And for more fun, UoP budget, etc.

http://www.az-sta.com/pdf_files/finance/FY2011 - Final Budget 06-25-10.pdf

 

[Puckschmuck*]

So far, nothing the COG has done to date has fully secured the future of NHL Hockey in the desert, and I doubt this little scare tactic of theirs will succeed.

 

[Acesolid]

Hell yes another pathetic humiliating legal battle for the NHL to fight! (I'm sure Gary Bettman is very happy about this)

Test your might, test your might, LEGAL KOMBAT:

More seriously, if there's one thing that was certain to drive away the NHL, it's this, I'm pretty certain Gary doesn't want another Coyotes super-trial. Game over!

 

[GSC2k2*]

IIRC, those numbers were actually provided by CoG in their filing on the BK among other areas. If you looks at all the numbers they filed for things such as tax revenues, expenses, etc., they are not consistent.

There were calcs in the BK documents, but they were the original $500M LD calculations and the basis for same. I think some of this came from a poster's review of CoG budget documents. I looked at them as well, and concluded that one could not readily calculate the team-and-arena-generated funds, because they were not sufficiently segregated. Other posters decided that they could, in order to build a case that they were way low.

The CoG had a reasonable estimate for the value of the parking and if they chose that instead of trying to hit a specific target, I think that the parking issue would become moot.

See, there is the begging-the-question fallacy rearing its head right there. You are assuming that Walker is "a reasonable estimate" and Hocking is unreasonable. Says who?

Back when that was discussed during my hiatus, no one came up with a better rationale for rejecting Hocking other than the following irrelevant/incorrect arguments:

- Walker is a better report because it is longer (irrelevant);

- Walker is a better report because they have been doing it longer (incorrect and irrelevant);

- Walker is a better report because hocking has been on retainer to CoG for various projects over the years (irrelevant);

- Walker is a better report because Hocking has been sued on a similar project (irrelevant, and whooooo boy, you should see what I have in hand about THAT issue; it deserves its own post IMO ).

- how the heck can parking generate that much revenue, anyway??!? It's just PARKING!

You can see what I think of the "analysis" that was done on this Board to reach that piece of conventional wisdom. Yet you assume that Walker is the "reasonable report".

I do not care if the Yotes stay or go. What fascinates me is the CoG council and how they appear to have no real business sense. I wonder how this "management contract" compares to the one for the other stadium. IIRC the management fee for UoP was significantly less though it encompassed more facilities.

I have no connection to the Coyotes, either. Hockey will go on either way. I am interested in the business machinations. Regarding the management fee that has people worked up, which is purely a cost-reimbursable contract anyway, there is no valid comparison to other pure arena management contracts, and I can only assume that people keep raising it because they do not understand that point. THis is a transaction with multiple components, many of which have no place in a standard arena management contract. Here, the arena manager is also a rent-paying tenant. THe arena manager is also producing 500-600,000 attendees by its own business. THe arena manager is committing to run its own business in the arena for thirty years.

Both CF and I are in full agreement that the trasnaction has to be evaluated on its entirety, rather than being broken down into components as you suggest.

This is another I will believe it when I see it item.

I'm with you there, Tommy. This is not about legailities. This is politics. GWI is a political entity, notwithstanding this nonsense that people want to believe about them being a "watchdog". They are a GOP entity pursuing GOP policies and directives. It may evolve into a lawsuit, but it is about politics, not taxpayer protection And that is fine - let's just stop deluding ourselves about any high-minded motives.

 

[GKJ]

So, they could just drop the suit? There is a chance this is just more game-playing by Glendale?


Otherwise, it's another 6-month trial, right?

 

[Dado]

Someone might want to explain what this really means...

Well, the most obvious thing it means is that unless GWI folds like a house of cards, there's going to be a protracted lawsuit.

It also strongly implies the bond sale is completely off the table, as an active lawsuit is as sure a deal breaker on debt sales as you can get (short of turning yourself into Greece or Iceland).

With a protracted lawsuit on the table and no financing for Hulsizer's acquisition, it would seem we are quite possibly mere hours away from a formal NHL statement regarding the future of this franchise.

 

[danishh]

if you view this as moving closer to a pro-phoenix resolution,

A source familiar with the planned lawsuit said the city will name not just the institute itself but individual directors and will ask for "hundreds of millions" of dollars in damages.

It's believed the city will also ask for a judgment that the lease agreement doesn't contravene state law.

seems to indicate 2 things to me.

1. Glendale will go ahead with the bond sale at a much higher rate than what they want. They know they will sell. The difference between what they think they should have sold for and what they actually sell for will be the damages they are seeking.

2. Glendale is taking this gift law battle to the GWI, and by coupling it with this the damages issue, they think they have a better chance of getting the judge to declare the deal legal and prevent all future GWI involvement.

 

[objectiveposter]

I suppose one potential interpretation is that the CoG is preparing to proceed with the sale of the bonds. Until either that happens, they would have no damages for increased interest costs resulting from the alleged tortious interference.

It is also possible that the "lawsuit" actually means that they are applying for an injunction or declaratory relief (same as the option that has always been available to GWI, notwithstanding the beliefs of others).

It is also possible that CoG has given up,and their claim for damages is based on the collapse of the deal.

Hazarding a guess as to which one is reality is not going to yield a solution. We will have to wait till next week and/or a statement of claim or other pleading is revealed. Speculate away.

the fact that they are suing for hundreds of millions suggests its from losses from the team relocating as opposed to just the increased interest.

legal question: since they are suing individuals...can the person being sued lose their personal wealth? like the arizona diamondbacks owners wife...if i was in her position and had even a 1% chance of losing my fortune i would cave.

also...since glendale wants the courts to decide..how long could that process take? would it happen immediately? a month from now?

 

[CasualFan]

This was another bit of talking points that came up during my "hiatus". It is based on what I believe to be an incomplete understanding of the sales tax issue and what is generated by Jobing. When I looked into this matter last year while this point was going on unchecked around here, it turns out that it is not just Westgate that experiences augmented sales tax revenues for the CoG. There are other nearby facilities immediately to the west of Jobing (a Walmart?) in addition to Westgate. Also, there are developments immediately north of Westgate which are also impacted.

Do your numbers also include increased property tax assessments? It does not seem that they do. Certainly it does not appear to assume any parking rent whatsoever. How about sales taxes on Jobing.com purchases itself? How about hotel taxes?

In California, when we want to pull sales tax data we have to get it from the Board of Equalization. What entity in Arizona are you sourcing your statement from? Did you make an effort to obtain actual data or are you basing off of info from 3rd party (such as BK filing)?

The fact that GWI won a case out of the blue in classic "dog catches bus" fashion does nt change that from a business perspective.

When you attempt to diminish the accomplishments of others, it is more a reflection of your own shortcomings than those who you would prefer to insult.

 

[RAgIn]

Lebrun didn't say the deal is dead, but it's definitely close (HNIC). They will try one more time this week to sell the bonds, but he didn't seem optimistic. He talked about Glendale suing, but gave no details. In 7-10 days, the Coyotes situation will be settled. Paraphrasing of course.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Just to ask you the speculative lawyer question. If the CoG does file suit for something like this, what would be your guess as to how quickly it can be dealt with by the courts?

If it is an injunction or declaratory judgment, it could be relatively quick - two weeks (badabing!!!)

Hello GS. Just wondering, can the COG request from the courts that the league can not sell the team until this is resolved?

Highly doubtful. THey have a contract with the NHL which allows the NHL to solicit bids. Unless the NHL has agreed to something to the contrary in writing, that would be close to impossible.

Not answering for GS, but it has been well within the NHL's rights ( based on the agreement they had with the CoG ) to sell this team on a moments notice since Jan 1, 2011 12:01AM.

I can't see any way the CoG could stop the NHL from selling the team other than saying "pretty please".

Yup.

BTW, I doubt this is a surprise to the NHL, whatever they do. I am sure they are plugged in to CoG ona minute-by-minute basis.

goyotes, I stand corrected. Glendale is desperate enough to take this absurd action. You were right, I was mistaken.

Casual Beads sales begin at SFO Intl Arpt on Monday morning.

Kudos for the standup response. Wait for the filing, dear friend. After that, though, photographic evidence will be requested.

 

[metalfoot]

RAgIn: Yep, heard that too. Was kind of surprised.

 

[Brodie]

The "hundreds of millions" thing doesn't indicate anything as they stand to lose that either way. The asking the judge to say if it violates the gift clause thing indicates they plan to go ahead with the bond sale.

I just wonder if the NHL will walk away instead of wait for a trial.

 

[pucka lucka]

Hello GS. Just wondering, can the COG request from the courts that the league can not sell the team until this is resolved?

I would suggest you ask a lawyer who has expertise in this jurisdiction and/or representing clients in cases of this type. I don't think this is his area, but I am sure he will speak for himself.

 

[cbcwpg]

Lebrun didn't say the deal is dead, but it's definitely close (HNIC). He talked about Glendale suing, but gave no details.

Labrun said they will try one more time to sell the bonds and if not... I believe the word used on the hot stove was "toast".

 

[GSC2k2*]

Well, the most obvious thing it means is that unless GWI folds like a house of cards, there's going to be a protracted lawsuit.

It also strongly implies the bond sale is completely off the table, as an active lawsuit is as sure a deal breaker on debt sales as you can get (short of turning yourself into Greece or Iceland).

With a protracted lawsuit on the table and no financing for Hulsizer's acquisition, it would seem we are quite possibly mere hours away from a formal NHL statement regarding the future of this franchise.

If the quote below is accurate:

It's believed the city will also ask for a judgment that the lease agreement doesn't contravene state law.

... then the above bolded statement would unlikely be true, unless the CoG plans to finance the MH transaction by alternative means (i.e. its cap ex reserves). IF they do not plan to execute the lease (which would seemingly be the end), then there would be no point wahtsoever in asking for declaratory relief regarding the legality of the transaction.

 

[GSC2k2*]

I would suggest you ask a lawyer who has expertise in this jurisdiction and/or representing clients in cases of this type. I don't think this is his area, but I am sure he will speak for himself.

I am versed in US contractual law principles, thanks. THere is no lawyer/client relationship here. I suggest that you tend to your own affairs.

 

[David_99]

... then the above bolded statement would unlikely be true, unless the CoG plans to finance the MH transaction by alternative means (i.e. its cap ex reserves). IF they do not plan to execute the lease (which would seemingly be the end), then there would be no point wahtsoever in asking for declaratory relief regarding the legality of the transaction.

Or... What good is suing for damages if it's later revealed that the deal was indeed iligal? Could it's purpose be to extinguish any later threat of a counter suit?

 

[GSC2k2*]

In California, when we want to pull sales tax data we have to get it from the Board of Equalization. What entity in Arizona are you sourcing your statement from? Did you make an effort to obtain actual data or are you basing off of info from 3rd party (such as BK filing)?

It's been a while, but IIRC I was lookng at CoG budget materials. THe LD amounts came from CoG's consultants.

When you attempt to diminish the accomplishments of others, it is more a reflection of your own shortcomings than those who you would prefer to insult.

Again with this one-note symphony! No one is diminshing anything. They won CityNorth. It is IMO a poorly reasoned and accordingly incorrect decision - whoops, am I diminishing the AZ SC's decision-making abilities? I presume that you have read law reviews and are familiar with the time-honoured process of critiquing and disagreeing with the outcome of decided cases? We are allowed - even encouraged - to do so in this country (and others), and I know the same tradition is followed in the US.

 

[wpgJetsfan]

So now the COG is going to sue GWI for not suing them first? LMAO

This litigation does not look good at all. Buyers of the BONDS will not want to purchase because of the legal battle. Heck, the COG sues and then GWI could sue back.

The Bonds are going on sale this week and if not sold in 7-10 days its GAME OVER in the desert.

Most hockey anaylsts are leaning towards GAME OVER!

 

[GSC2k2*]

Or... What good is suing for damages if it's later revealed that the deal was indeed iligal? Could it's purpose be to extinguish any later threat of a counter suit?

Not sure I follow the point. If GWI is going to litigate, they will litigate. THe presence of a damages claim will not affect that. The request for declaratory relief would be sufficient to provoke GWI, if they are going to "go" (to put it in hockey terms for a hockey board).

 

[Dado]

Of course, this is CoG we're talking about. They haven't made a business-logical decision in this entire debacle. My money is on the suit being nothing more significant than political posturing for their own political benefit.

I'm looking forward to a quick resolution - my expectation for a long time now has been relocation plus one last acrimonious go-round in the courts, so this would be a great time for the ride to stop spinning.