Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[Donwood]

Pay for what?

Glendale paying for "arena management"

 

[Nordskull]

The debt service on the loan from Fortress.

The Fortress fund is like a lender of last resort, making the type of loans nobody else will. Fortress themselves do not make the loan but rather an investment fund that they manage is the lender. They will charge a very high rate and also take some potential upside in the value of the asset through the warrants, which are similar to call options.

You don't borrow from a fund like this unless you have absolutely no choice.

So those folks think they will move the franchise in Seattle for what 350M?

Do they know its hockey, not football?

 

[CrazyMonkey1208]

What, no leaks today? No rumors of a press conference? Wow this is boring

 

[Donwood]

The debt service on the loan from Fortress.

The Fortress fund is like a lender of last resort, making the type of loans nobody else will. Fortress themselves do not make the loan but rather an investment fund that they manage is the lender. They will charge a very high rate and also take some potential upside in the value of the asset through the warrants, which are similar to call options.

You don't borrow from a fund like this unless you have absolutely no choice.

Basically a loan shark

 

[OthmarAmmann]

$6m a year might not cover the interest alone, much less repayment, much less the cost of operating the arena. Glendale isn't going to pull $15-20m a year out of their ass. This is nonsense.

Although I cannot confirm it I believe the arrangement with Fortress has been around since at least JIG v1.0

 

[Killion]

You don't borrow from a fund like this unless you have absolutely no choice.

Yes reports suggested that they were quite ruthless in their dealings with Millenium & the City of Vancouver over the athletes village fiasco. The situation in Whistler fall 2009 rather tense. I dont really know much more about them then that, didnt even make the connection until someone pointed it out.

 

[XX]

Although I cannot confirm it I believe the arrangement with Fortress has been around since at least JIG v1.0

The JIG deal was frontloaded with the approximate amount being discussed here. $120m in the first five years or so, right? So it was doable then. A disgusting moonshot subsidized by a city, but doable. Now? Not a chance in hell. If the condition of RSE getting a lease done has been $15m+ all along, this deal was dead the moment they entered the picture.

 

[Donwood]

Wow even Joyce Clark thinks it's a rip off

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/figure/

 

[bobbop]

Would the BOG approve this deal? How would they be "made whole"?

For starters, expansion money.

 

[madhi19]

Wow even Joyce Clark thinks it's a rip off

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/figure/

She claim it 9% interest and this deal is crazy enough for her to be right. On a $120 million debt that $10.8 million a year just in interest?

 

[Stanley Cup]

She claim it 9% interest and this deal is crazy enough for her to be right. On a $120 million debt that $10.8 million a year just in interest?

The first year, it's a decreasing loan.

 

[madhi19]

The first year, it's a decreasing loan.

That if you pay some of principal. I could so see RSE just paying the interest with Glendale money and flipping the team after 5 years.

 

[Major4Boarding]

The debt service on the loan from Fortress.

The Fortress fund is like a lender of last resort, making the type of loans nobody else will. Fortress themselves do not make the loan but rather an investment fund that they manage is the lender. They will charge a very high rate and also take some potential upside in the value of the asset through the warrants, which are similar to call options.

You don't borrow from a fund like this unless you have absolutely no choice.

You know, after mulling over your post for the last 40 minutes it dawned on me...

Given all these "details" of the deal (via Forbes), why does this whole scenario sound a lot more like LeBlanc than it does Gosbee?

Perhaps I'm giving Gosbee too much credit? This supposed "deal" doesn't seem to resinate or have that Gosbee "vibe". This deal doesn't ooze "protection" for Renaissance, this thing stinks of desperation.

Lender of Last Resort?

NHL-backed (endorsed) deferment?

$45M / remainder financed?

Again, maybe it's just me or I'm off the grid regarding Gosbee but, man... now that it's sinking in, this looks to be the more in-depth revealings of IceEdge's first go at it than Renaissance.

Carry on

 

[LPHabsFan]

Glendale paying for "arena management"

Well, they have sent out an RFP and they will know exactly what they are able to get for the 6 million once they open any packages that have been sent to them as a response from other arena management companies.

It's very probably that they will be offered some very nice returns in terms of generated revenue as a result of new AMF's.

I see a lot of people getting ahead of themselves by talking about 6, 8, 12, 15 million for an AMF when it seems questionable that the COG would want RSE/NHL as the arena manager at 6 million alone.

 

[Donwood]

For starters, expansion money.

That theory is as bad as this deal. Move the team to Quebec now and get 230 million not lose money in Glendale.

Move to Quebec, expand to Seattle and S. Ont. easy

 

[OthmarAmmann]

She claim it 9% interest and this deal is crazy enough for her to be right. On a $120 million debt that $10.8 million a year just in interest?

Sounds about right. I would have expected it to be higher but interest rates are so low these days. They also have to repay the debt.

I wouldn't consider this such a sweetheart deal for RSE. The NHL's loan will only cover about $15 million in operating costs per year, which means they're going to have to return to profitability within 5 years just to break even and their upside is limited by Fortress' warrants.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

You know, after mulling over your post for the last 40 minutes it dawned on me...

Given all these "details" of the deal (via Forbes), why does this whole scenario sound a lot more like LeBlanc than it does Gosbee?

Perhaps I'm giving Gosbee too much credit? This supposed "deal" doesn't seem to resinate or have that Gosbee "vibe". This deal doesn't ooze "protection" for Renaissance, this thing stinks of desperation.

Lender of Last Resort?

NHL-backed (endorsed) deferment?

$45M / remainder financed?

Again, maybe it's just me or I'm off the grid regarding Gosbee but, man... now that it's sinking in, this looks to be the more in-depth revealings of IceEdge's first go at it than Renaissance.

Carry on

Do you remember who recruited Hulzinger?

I have to quote myself. Five minutes after the Hulzinger lease was posted to the COG website:

are they just handing him $100 mm?

 

[madhi19]

I love that Fortress fund reserve the right to flip some of the debt for 20% ownership stake you know just in case the team sold for way more in five years. Funny they never offered that to Glendale!

 

[XX]

Again, maybe it's just me or I'm off the grid regarding Gosbee but, man... now that it's sinking in, this looks to be the more in-depth revealings of IceEdge's first go at it than Renaissance.

Looks like a Plan B. A steward for the Coyote throne, should a QC deal fall through. You can say and do whatever you want if you know the city has zero chance of coming up with the money necessary. Lipstick on a pig. This news is devastating as a Coyote fan, but not unexpected. It shatters the illusion that Gosbee had the money necessary to make a run at this thing. That was tenuous to begin with, having need still of a hefty AMF. But now? Shattered. A grifter waiting around for a sweet deal.

 

[aqib]

Cant remember exactly, but $196M seems to ring a bell. In addition to that he was willing to basically gift the COG either $25M or $50M in "transition funds" to help them on their journey with the building, additionally offering to MLSE & I believe the Sabres a negotiated set of indemnification fee's, and also offered the Arena Management Contract & Concessions at Copps to the former. He was also offering to cover somewhere around 33%+ on an app $200M reno, the city & province kicking in the rest.

$212.5 million for the team, which would have cleared 100% of all debts including those owed to Moyes and Gretzky. In addition he initially offered Glendale $25 million and then later raised it to $50 million.

 

[dronald]

I came here a few weeks back and asked if anything had happened... Someone said something would happen on May 24.

It's May 30th, anything?

 

[madhi19]

$212.5 million for the team, which would have cleared 100% of all debts including those owed to Moyes and Gretzky. In addition he initially offered Glendale $25 million and then later raised it to $50 million.

I wonder if Judge Baum would like to comment on his ruling now. Some journalist should track him down.

I came here a few weeks back and asked if anything had happened... Someone said something would happen on May 24.

It's May 30th, anything?

A lot of things happened since May 24th. We learned last Tuesday how hard Gary would try selling the deal to Glendale. Turn out he gave it one morning and could not wait to get off the tarmac before washing his hand of the whole deal. The same night we learned that Glendale has budgeted 6 Million no more and the rewrote their budget policy to stop creative accounting. And today somebody leaked to Forbes the details of the RSE deal and it a joke.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I came here a few weeks back and asked if anything had happened... Someone said something would happen on May 24.

It's May 30th, anything?

The bid unsealing ceremony has been pushed back until tomorrow. Be sure to stock up on Cheetos and champagne.

 

[rt]

I came here a few weeks back and asked if anything had happened... Someone said something would happen on May 24.

It's May 30th, anything?

No. If Glendale will pay double what they have stated they are able to pay, Gosbee and the NHL can close a deal for the Coyotes to stay in Glendale. If the city refuses to pay up? Nobody on his board knows.

 

[rt]

The bid unsealing ceremony has been pushed back until tomorrow. Be sure to stock up on Cheetos and champagne.

Blech! What a digusting thought. This is coming from a guy who love Cheetos and really really loves champagne. Never the two should meet, however. Never. Yuck.