Phoenix LXXX: Is there another way out?

[Killion]

I don't think there are going to be any additional meetings scheduled, ever.... In conclusion, if the NHL isn't willing to play at Jobing.com for AMF $6MM, they are pretty much done playing in Glendale.

Pretty much the way Im calling it as well. They knew walking in there top end was $6M, the absolute crux of the matter, and no one says a word about it, no numbers, no prospectus, nothing substantive offered by either the league nor from Gosbee & Le Blanc. Just going through the motions. Didnt even attempt to make a proper presentation & show of it. No urgency, no deadlines, just powdered milk, pablum. Ridiculous. Not buyin it. Short stopover for Bettman & Daly on their way to LA.

There is no way that they announce a relocation before there is at least a public pronouncement from them that the deal between CoG and RSE has faltered, with an ominous statement that relocation may be the only way....

Yes I agree. Expect an announcement that "despite our best efforts etc etc we are unfortunately now having to entertain a relocation of the franchise" and so on & so forth. They wont just come out & BAM. No, they'll qualify it.

 

[GuelphStormer]

so, the more i think about it, the more i am convincing myself that y'all are right, the coyote relocating to quebec announcement will come tomorrow. announcing it right now during this short break would distract the least from the conference final games scheduled every day beginning saturday, and will have pretty well died down by the time the stanley cup finals begin. although i suspect the modal reaction will simply be "it's about time", i dont think the nhl would want to distract attention from the playoff broadcasts and the logistics dont really allow for it to drag out for too long.

 

[CasualFan]

Pretty much the way Im calling it as well. They knew walking in there top end was $6M, the absolute crux of the matter, and no one says a word about it, no numbers, no prospectus, nothing substantive offered by either the league nor from Gosbee & Le Blanc. Just going through the motions. Didnt even attempt to make a proper presentation & show of it. No urgency, no deadlines, just powdered milk, pablum. Ridiculous. Not buyin it. Short stopover for Bettman & Daly on their way to LA.

I have no idea what the NHL presented (Note: I'm very comfortable using "NHL" although I respect Legend's point about RSE being the actual LLC that would enter the agreement. For all intents and purposes, NHL and RSE are synonymous.)

I do know what the city just adopted as far as budget and policy though. And it definitely isn't aligned with any of the past handling of the IEH, Hulsizer, and JIG proposals.

If the NHL truly has an out in Quebec, now would be the time to use it. I remain skeptical that the option exists for the 13-14 Season.

* But, I also cynically believed that the NHL would suspend operation of the franchise before they ate the losses in Glendale this past season, so you may want to seek alternate opinions on this.

 

[King_Stannis]

so, the more i think about it, the more i am convincing myself that y'all are right, the coyote relocating to quebec announcement will come tomorrow. announcing it right now during this short break would distract the least from the conference final games scheduled every day beginning saturday, and will have pretty well died down by the time the stanley cup finals begin. although i suspect the modal reaction will simply be "it's about time", i dont think the nhl would want to distract attention from the playoff broadcasts and the logistics dont really allow for it to drag out for too long.

Respectfully I disagree, not that they will move but the timing of it. As I stated earlier we're dealing with very sensitive and yes, important issues of perception. They can't have their last official pronouncement be that a deal is being worked on and then their next one being that the team is moving.

Plus some of you guys are way underestimating the legal side of this if a deal has to be done with Quebec. This is something that came up with the Thrashers to Winnipeg relocation. These are very complex transactions involving a lot of people. It's not like Gary can give the fingergun and wink to the PKP reps and they can say "right back atcha'" for a deal to get done. We're talking many lawyers scouring things with a fine tooth comb. It takes time to complete.

 

[Nordskull]

Respectfully I disagree, not that they will move but the timing of it. As I stated earlier we're dealing with very sensitive and yes, important issues of perception. They can't have their last official pronouncement be that a deal is being worked on and then their next one being that the team is moving.

Plus some of you guys are way underestimating the legal side of this if a deal has to be done with Quebec. This is something that came up with the Thrashers to Winnipeg relocation. These are very complex transactions involving a lot of people. It's not like Gary can give the fingergun and wink to the PKP reps and they can say "right back atcha'" for a deal to get done. We're talking many lawyers scouring things with a fine tooth comb. It takes time to complete.

...if he did not get his butt covered before giving Glendale his last shot.

But still, nothing before, say next thursday, if it happens.

 

[YEMELIN74]

Respectfully I disagree, not that they will move but the timing of it. As I stated earlier we're dealing with very sensitive and yes, important issues of perception. They can't have their last official pronouncement be that a deal is being worked on and then their next one being that the team is moving.

Plus some of you guys are way underestimating the legal side of this if a deal has to be done with Quebec. This is something that came up with the Thrashers to Winnipeg relocation. These are very complex transactions involving a lot of people. It's not like Gary can give the fingergun and wink to the PKP reps and they can say "right back atcha'" for a deal to get done. We're talking many lawyers scouring things with a fine tooth comb. It takes time to complete.

there was some rumors 2 weeks ago that some lawyers hired by pkp were already looking at the coyotes papers...

 

[King_Stannis]

there was some rumors 2 weeks ago that some lawyers hired by pkp were already looking at the coyotes papers...

Oh, I don't doubt it. I'm sure quite a bit of the legal heavy lifting has been done. That said, when it's time to sit down at the table and sign names on the dotted line, things have to be reviewed, wording has to be changed and some small items need negotiated. I'm sure legally speaking, any agreement with PKP would be expedited. But expedited doesn't necessarily mean "immediate". And the league WIL NOT announce anything until the agreement has been signed.

 

[Donwood]

there was some rumors 2 weeks ago that some lawyers hired by pkp were already looking at the coyotes papers...

Think about this logically, would the NHL get "Stuck" because they waited too long to talk to Quebec, No way! I have no doubt discussions and negotiations have been ongoing for some time. I think it's just a matter of closing the deal with Quebec.

Winnipeg was minutes away from taking the Coyotes before the first 25 million dollar pay off so you can be sure so is Quebec.

 

[Killion]

If the NHL truly has an out in Quebec, now would be the time to use it. I remain skeptical that the option exists for the 13-14 Season.

Well, there has been mounting evidence for quite some time now that QC is in fact preparing themselves to throw the switch. The most recent being their own just recently released RFP's for further upgrades & improvements to the Colisee, "urgency" underlined & underscored, as in the work being commissioned must be completed over the summer and if you cant accomplish that, dont bother bidding. This new RFP combined with last years upgrades, absolutely not required for the QMJHL's Remparts. Theyve also ceased booking concerts & other events that will conflict with an NHL schedule, then theres PKP's curious move in stepping back from his Chairmanship of Quebecor. So if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck....

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I don't think there are going to be any additional meetings scheduled, ever. It's slightly nuanced, but I still consider all of this stuff to be pretty much basic Gov/Econ:

- Glendale is chartered as a council–manager government form. The role of the City Manager includes budget preparation, in conjunction with the Exec Director of Financial Services.

It was, in fact, somewhat remarkable that the meeting even took place with council. Or rather, various subsets of council.

 

[cbcwpg]

Think about this logically, would the NHL get "Stuck" because they waited too long to talk to Quebec, No way! I have no doubt discussions and negotiations have been ongoing for some time. I think it's just a matter of closing the deal with Quebec.

Winnipeg was minutes away from taking the Coyotes before the first 25 million dollar pay off so you can be sure so is Quebec.

No doubt they have been. But even if talks have been ongoing for some time, like they were with TNSE, there is still a matter of pen to paper. Even after TNSE and the NHL had a gentleman's agreement in place to buy/sell the Thrashers they still had a frantic 48 hours of lawyer'ing to meet the end of May deadline that everyone wanted. Even TNSE said there were some things in the documents being signed that could have derailed that deal.

So even though it is assumed they have been talking, and even if they have an agreement in understanding, it's not official until all ~1,000 places to put your signatures are signed.

 

[Mightygoose]

so, the more i think about it, the more i am convincing myself that y'all are right, the coyote relocating to quebec announcement will come tomorrow. announcing it right now during this short break would distract the least from the conference final games scheduled every day beginning saturday, and will have pretty well died down by the time the stanley cup finals begin. although i suspect the modal reaction will simply be "it's about time", i dont think the nhl would want to distract attention from the playoff broadcasts and the logistics dont really allow for it to drag out for too long.

Well if tomorrow is the day, wouldn't be ironic if they made the accouncement later in the day just before the city opens up the RFP envelopes? Make them sweat it out in the event the bids are not too the city's liking.

Though more likley, the city will have a few good offers to sift through IMO.

 

[Donwood]

It was, in fact, somewhat remarkable that the meeting even took place with council. Or rather, various subsets of council.

No one wants to take all or most of the blame for the Coyotes leaving. Refusing to speak to the NHL and RSE would leave Glendale open to Bettman dumping everything on the city.

 

[WildGopher]

So if it walks like a Duck, talks like a Duck....

. . . it's a Nordique? Is that what you're saying?

I still think the NHL very much wants to keep this team in Glendale. But absent some kind of miracle even the creative minds here can't seem to imagine, it's not going to work. I doubt they'll run the team again and risk a year of losses in the $20+ million range. Maybe tomorrow evening, after those arena management bids are opened, we'll hear the NHL make the kind of statement suggested a few posts back, that the league is now considering relocation, etc. That has two advantages for them: First, Friday night news releases tend to get buried - that's when politicians try to dump bad news - so other than in Quebec and Arizona and on boards like these, it'd be largely missed. Second, maybe it gives the NHL plausible deniability that they at least made the initial move on the issue of relocation by May 31st - after all, it's on record they told a court that's the latest they could relocate a team. I know they're not held to that statement now, but they might still want to have an alibi if confronted on it, so you'd think something will be said or leaked soon.

 

[CasualFan]

It was, in fact, somewhat remarkable that the meeting even took place with council. Or rather, various subsets of council.

Just enough Yaris on the Avis lot to get them all to City Hall...

 

[GuelphStormer]

however brief and oddly structured, gary and his friends got the information they needed at those meetings in glendale. bank closed. not what they wanted or had hoped for, obviously, but certainly what they needed to hear in order to move forward. and move forward they will.

 

[cbcwpg]

It was, in fact, somewhat remarkable that the meeting even took place with council. Or rather, various subsets of council.

After reading this:

http://www.azleg.gov/ombudsman/Open Meeting Law 101.pdf

I can see why Bettman didn't want to sit down with more than he did, at one time.

Especially the parts to do with:

Why do we have an Open Meeting Law?
1. To protect the public.
a. To avoid decision-making in secret.
b. To promote accountability by encouraging public officials to act responsively and
responsibly.
2. To protect public officials.
a. To avoid being excluded (notice).
b. To prepare and avoid being blind sided (agenda).
c. To accurately memorialize what happened (minutes).
3. Maintain Integrity of government.
4. Better informed citizenry.
5. Build trust between government and citizenry.

Also because of time constraints encase the NHL has to make an announcement this weekend.

 

[Yukon Joe]

so, the more i think about it, the more i am convincing myself that y'all are right, the coyote relocating to quebec announcement will come tomorrow. announcing it right now during this short break would distract the least from the conference final games scheduled every day beginning saturday, and will have pretty well died down by the time the stanley cup finals begin. although i suspect the modal reaction will simply be "it's about time", i dont think the nhl would want to distract attention from the playoff broadcasts and the logistics dont really allow for it to drag out for too long.

Except a relocation is major news. They have to give the media advance warning.

In 2011, the media were given that warning on May 30th. They (NHL and TNSE) didn't say what their press conference would be about, but everybody knew what it was about.

So if there's to be an announcement tomorrow, we'll hear something today.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

No one wants to take all or most of the blame for the Coyotes leaving. Refusing to speak to the NHL and RSE would leave Glendale open to Bettman dumping everything on the city.

Every other negotiation has begun with administration, which is in fitting with the spirit of the law.

 

[Nordskull]

Well if tomorrow is the day, wouldn't be ironic if they made the accouncement later in the day just before the city opens up the RFP envelopes? Make them sweat it out in the event the bids are not too the city's liking.

Though more likley, the city will have a few good offers to sift through IMO.

In this particular case, city could simply launch a new RFP process for the jobbing.

 

[King_Stannis]

Second, maybe it gives the NHL plausible deniability that they at least made the initial move on the issue of relocation by May 31st - after all, it's on record they told a court that's the latest they could relocate a team. I know they're not held to that statement now, but they might still want to have an alibi if confronted on it, so you'd think something will be said or leaked soon.

The NHL has no obligation whatsoever to hold to that "deadline". Good faith testimony four years ago is not a legally binding drop dead date. In no way, shape or form does the NHL need to heed a 5/31 deadline. The league can also point to the fact that a relocation has occurred in the interim, giving them more insight as to what can be done and how far it can be pushed. There is no perjury or falsehood proven should the relocation happen after that date. It was simply a good faith estimate of the amount of time the NHL felt it needed back then. And unless the league somehow shows that it can move a team within a week of the season starting, that estimate would hold up under any legal scrutiny.

Additionally, I'm not even sure how or by whom that statement would be contested. The team has no lease with the city, so the city cannot prevent them from going. There may be legal wrangling over past payments and economic performance, but those are separate from any issue of relocation.

 

[Killion]

. . .I still think the NHL very much wants to keep this team in Glendale.

Ya, well, I too would actually love to see the Coyotes remain in Glendale, someone with vision & savvy could easily make a go of it with a $6M AMF & Contract. Yes you'd need deep pockets but I believe the rewards will be more than worth it. However, we've not seen such an individual nor group in 4yrs, the NHL seemingly wont budge on price or terms, price just keeps goin up & up, more & more damage done to the market. The NHL nor any of us can always get what we want, but if we try sometimes we get we need... and for the NHL, thats Quebec. Their out of time, options.

 

[Donwood]

Except a relocation is major news. They have to give the media advance warning.

In 2011, the media were given that warning on May 30th. They (NHL and TNSE) didn't say what their press conference would be about, but everybody knew what it was about.

So if there's to be an announcement tomorrow, we'll hear something today.

Not quite accurate, On the evening of May 30, 2011 the city was abuzz but the press conference was not called/confirmed until the early morning hours of May 31.

I was as obsessed as anyone that night, I remember the time line well, Scott Brown True Norths PR guy was at the offices waiting for THE call, Yes the press was on standby but part of that was knowing the deadline was here.

At about 3am with Brown still in his office did the official press conference get called.
From Chipmans own words there was still a few I's to dot and T's to cross but he was assured it would be done shortly and he gave the okay to Brown to announce the press conference.

 

[powerstuck]

The NHL did not have any trouble getting to Winnipeg and opening by saying, we tried everything we could to keep the team in Atlanta, but we were unsuccessful and here we are moving the Trashers to Winnipeg where they will become Jets.

You guys gotta understand that it is possible that NHL did drag this past year 1 or year 2 mark to simply make an easier blame onto Glendale. Now they do have it.

They could very well get in Quebec or Seattle and open with, for 4 years we have been doing everything we could to find a serious owner who would have kept the Coyotes in Glendale, but we could not find such person. The city of Glendale was not willing to cooperate in negotiations with potential owners and here we are, the Coyotes are moving to Quebec to become the Quebec Nordiques.

 

[Nordskull]

Seems that was/is the deal, financed in part by the NHL

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeoza...0-million-sale-to-be-partially-funded-by-nhl/