Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Jeffrey93]

The NHL couldn't care less about looking bad. This is the league that had 4 work stoppages in 21 seasons, including the cancellation on an entire season. Clearly they have zero concerns about public image.

The only thing the NHL cares about is money. So if the idiotic politicians of the State of Arizona are dumb enough to build this franchise another new arena & offer them another subsidy, the NHL will wait this out as long as it takes...bad publicity notwithstanding.

They're looking bad to potential markets though too. IF....IF some government in the Phoenix area decides to give the Coyotes more cash for another new rink....then it fails (because lets admit....that is a real possibility)....the NHL will, again, have to fight to protect the most recent people funding the second new rink. By then...I'm sure the NHL and current ownership will be tired of this and want to relocate.

Even without that.....this is an NHL franchise that is going around looking for funding for another free rink, while their current free rink is only 13 years old. What does that tell future and current markets? I respect the NHL (I didn't at the time) for standing up and fighting for Glendale in the bankruptcy battle. They were also looking out for themselves.....but part of it was for Glendale.

Now, they're seemingly fine with this team ditching that same place they fought to protect. The league loses credibility with every level of government when they do this. People will be leery of building a new venue for a new team or an existing team if this is what happens.

If the NHL had an arena fund setup.....I'd be more ok with it. I wouldn't think the Coyotes would qualify for any league funding....but had Glendale received a big chunk of change to build the initial venue, it wouldn't be as big of a deal to leave it.

Why the NHL doesn't have an arena fund, now that almost every rink is stable for the foreseeable future (minus Glendale for some unknown reason, and maybe Calgary)......it's a good time for everyone to ante in every year for arena funding.

Anyway....I'm digressing a lot. This looks bad on the league both for viewers/fans and for potential/current markets. It's never good to have a franchise in this situation....and this has been more than enough of a problem already...now they're trying to get a new arena so they can leave their pretty-much new arena for. Nothing positive comes from this, therefore....it's bad.

 

[USAUSA1]

The nhl doesn't care because this a non story outside arizona. Islanders Barclay situation is a bigger story.

 

[Killion]

The nhl doesn't care because this a non story outside arizona. Islanders Barclay situation is a bigger story.

Yes, this true to a certain extent, the situations in Brooklyn & Carolina overshadowing the Neverending Story in Arizona. Certainly with Brooklyn, you have a higher, much higher concentration of traditional & non-traditional media outlets. Some of them decidedly NHL unfriendly so the League & the Club are gunna get roasted and there isnt a thing any of them can do about it. In Carolina as were/are the cases in Florida, Texas, Arizona & Carolina, they can control the messaging somewhat and in those markets little to no resources spent by media outlets on hockey & the NHL. None of the mainstream national media allocate resources to investigative reportage, all NHL & NHL Sponsor friendly pablum. Dont wanna rock the boat, find their reporters credentials lifted by any given team or the league for writing a piece thats in-depth, objective & critical. Part of the problem with Arizona is that people have become inured to the mess of a situation, suffering from fatigue. National media isnt covering it, local media doesnt have the resources nor do they have the will to lay it all out there. The smog created by the NHL & IA so thick its above their pay grades to try & figure out & if they do & write it up, wind up working as a Greeter at Home Depot at Surprise Town Center.

 

[Llama19]

Yes, this true to a certain extent, the situations in Brooklyn & Carolina overshadowing the Neverending Story in Arizona. Certainly with Brooklyn, you have a higher, much higher concentration of traditional & non-traditional media outlets. Some of them decidedly NHL unfriendly so the League & the Club are gunna get roasted and there isnt a thing any of them can do about it. In Carolina as were/are the cases in Florida, Texas, Arizona & Carolina, they can control the messaging somewhat and in those markets little to no resources spent by media outlets on hockey & the NHL. None of the mainstream national media allocate resources to investigative reportage, all NHL & NHL Sponsor friendly pablum. Dont wanna rock the boat, find their reporters credentials lifted by any given team or the league for writing a piece thats in-depth, objective & critical. Part of the problem with Arizona is that people have become inured to the mess of a situation, suffering from fatigue. National media isnt covering it, local media doesnt have the resources nor do they have the will to lay it all out there. The smog created by the NHL & IA so thick its above their pay grades to try & figure out & if they do & write it up, wind up working as a Greeter at Home Depot at Surprise Town Center.

Yet...if it was not for tonight's 20th Anniversary...

 

[Jeffrey93]

The nhl doesn't care because this a non story outside arizona. Islanders Barclay situation is a bigger story.

Again....that's as far as the fans are concerned. You're right in that regard.

But, if you're looking to expand to another market (which obviously they are) and may have some relocation looming (always a chance).....when the NHL comes knocking at your door for money for a new rink and a new team.....this Phoenix/Glendale/Arizona debacle is going to get brought up.

You want us to pay for an arena? Yeah, in this market it might make everyone some money.....but give me a guarantee we won't end up being like Glendale. I want a GUARANTEE no matter what happens......this [relocation/expansion team] won't end up like the Coyotes.

Guaranteed as soon as any franchise looks for arena money this ordeal gets mentioned, partially because it is a valid concern....and also partially because it is STILL ongoing.

 

[Llama19]

There was mention of a special Season Ticket Holder photograph for 20 year anniversary that should...should give us a better idea of how many STH's there actually are.

However...based on this one STH's tweets, that waited for their picture to be taken...not all STHs were treated equally...

https://s24.postimg.org/f2s607vr9/02_18_17_Cassel_on_STH_20th_Ann_Photo_Shoot.png

https://s31.postimg.org/undulegpn/02_18_17_Cassel_on_STH_20th_Ann_Photo_Shoot_02.png

 

[Killion]

There was mention of a special Season Ticket Holder photograph for 20 year anniversary that should...should give us a better idea of how many sth's there actually are.

However...based on this one STH's tweets, that waited for their picture to be taken...not all STHs were treated equally...

https://s24.postimg.org/f2s607vr9/02_18_17_Cassel_on_STH_20th_Ann_Photo_Shoot.png

https://s31.postimg.org/undulegpn/02_18_17_Cassel_on_STH_20th_Ann_Photo_Shoot_02.png

We've been waiting for this, holdover from the last thread. You couldnt find any pictures? Hopefully they'll surface, get posted, though from what that customers claiming, bit of a fiasco. Maybe they just took shots of the 20Year Club, those who have been ST Holders since 96/97...

 

[Llama19]

We've been waiting for this, holdover from the last thread. You couldnt find any pictures? Hopefully they'll surface, get posted, though from what that customers claiming, bit of a fiasco. Maybe they just took shots of the 20Year Club, those who have been ST Holders since 96/97...

Here you go...

 

[Killion]

^^^ well, that really doesnt look like a whole lotta people to me Lllama and look.... you can see daylight in between the legs of those standing in a line by the center face off circle so its not like their row upon row 20 deep. Best guesstimate would be what, about 1500, 2000?

 

[Jeffrey93]

^^^ well, that really doesnt look like a whole lotta people to me Lllama and look.... you can see daylight in between the legs of those standing in a line by the center face off circle so its not like their row upon row 20 deep. Best guesstimate would be what, about 1500, 2000?

Based on that picture.......342.

And that might be generous.

 

[Killion]

Based on that picture.......342.

And that might be generous.

Yeah, I am no fan of people posting photos 2/3rds empty arenas and usually we dont allow such pictures to stand, but as this is supposed to be the full compliment of ST Holders & they wont divulge the numbers... well... I mean, God Bless them, the fans, each & every one of those fantastic Seasons Ticket Subscribers but from a business & organizational perspective that is absolutely scary.... I actually thought the numbers being tossed around in the last thread of 3000 or 3500 were low so yes, Im shocked.

 

[BattleBorn]

Yeah, I am no fan of people posting photos 2/3rds empty arenas and usually we dont allow such pictures to stand, but as this is supposed to be the full compliment of ST Holders & they wont divulge the numbers... well... I mean, God Bless them, the fans, each & every one of those fantastic Seasons Ticket Subscribers but from a business & organizational perspective that is absolutely scary.... I actually thought the numbers being tossed around in the last thread of 3000 or 3500 were low so yes, Im shocked.

This is a picture of people that have been STHs for 20 years, isn't it?

 

[Killion]

This is a picture of people that have been STHs for 20 years, isn't it?

Based on what the fan / ST holder tweeted above, it would appear that the photographers composition was to have the people
standing on the ice the 20yr ST Holders; those seated with some standing on the steps on the stairs comprising the balance....

 

[Llama19]

Based on what the fan / ST holder tweeted above, it would appear that the photographers composition was to have the people
standing on the ice the 20yr ST Holders; those seated with some standing on the steps on the stairs comprising the balance....

For those on the ice...it may not be just 20 year STHs...which makes this even worse...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

For those on the ice...it may not be just 20 year STHs...which makes this even worse...

sounds like only the high end ST holders got put on the ice.

There's no way that's an accurate season ticket count. There's literally under 200 people in that photo. If that's an accurate amount, they're doing worse than I thought, and that is a VERY, VERY low bar.

 

[Killion]

For those on the ice...it may not be just 20 year STHs...which makes this even worse...

Huh. If thats the case, essentially then just based on a Class Structure, you pay more, you get in the front line.... if your a newer subscriber, maybe with cheaper seats in the upper bowl or whatever based on ones own preference or budget, you go sit in the stands please. Whatever. All pretty fast & loose, shallow, cheap. Why would you not hold a private, fully catered function, Swag Bags, team jackets or jerseys, caps etc included for your most loyal of customers to celebrate the organizations 20th Anniversary? I understand they all have to get home after the game, its getting late but still. Regardless.... as I said earlier as the club has thus far refused to divulge the number of ST Holders and if even 10% are missing from that photo... and we know the mini-pack dealeos arent exactly flying off the shelves.... thats pretty sad. What in the Hell is the Sales Department doing down there? Despite this meme of being "1/30th of the league" & "killing it in corporate" blah blah blah & so on & so forth, despite the pretensions this is not the NBA let alone the NFL. Still very much Gate Driven. I mean, what part of that didnt IA understand? Just been coasting on Glendales & the Leagues welfare payments, direct subsidies, force feeding the market with a diet of wieners & beans, Timbits and a coffe-like substance to wash it all down. Crazy.

 

[offkilter]

There's no way that's an accurate season ticket count. There's literally under 200 people in that photo. If that's an accurate amount, they're doing worse than I thought, and that is a VERY, VERY low bar.

I agree. The Lowell Devils had a larger season ticket base if you go by that photo.

As for whether or not everyone on the ice is a 20 year STH? Keep in mind 20 years is a long time, especially if you're a businessman in your 30s to 50s when you got your inaugural season tickets. Also keep in mind the drop off in fanbase of those that didn't want to make the drive when the team moved to Glendale and there really can't be that many people.

Odds are they did what a lot of indy wrestling feds do and moved people down to fill in spots for better optics. Still if they wanted better optics the Coyotes should never have even bothered with this type of photo shoot, or if they did just grab the handfull of 20 year STH's and take their photo in the Coyotes locker room.

 

[Mightygoose]

Maybe the photo is just being done to make it look like the season ticket base and create the impression that they're in the wrong location.

I'm sure they can easily double the season ticket base moving to the East side . We had a standing room only crowd tonight with about 300 STHs....imagine what we do on the east side!

In all more liklihood, they probably just decided to take this photo at the last moment as soon as the game ended. Long term thinking can't be allowed

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I agree. The Lowell Devils had a larger season ticket base if you go by that photo.

As for whether or not everyone on the ice is a 20 year STH? Keep in mind 20 years is a long time, especially if you're a businessman in your 30s to 50s when you got your inaugural season tickets. Also keep in mind the drop off in fanbase of those that didn't want to make the drive when the team moved to Glendale and there really can't be that many people.

Odds are they did what a lot of indy wrestling feds do and moved people down to fill in spots for better optics. Still if they wanted better optics the Coyotes should never have even bothered with this type of photo shoot, or if they did just grab the handfull of 20 year STH's and take their photo in the Coyotes locker room.

I mean, the WWE was doing this for PPV's as recently as December to Dismember. To say nothing of TNA.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Judging the season ticket base from a photo like this is just nuts.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Judging the season ticket base from a photo like this is just nuts.

I agree, but people are latching on to any scrap of info we can get.

I'd love to know the real number.

 

[Killion]

Judging the season ticket base from a photo like this is just nuts.

Yes I agree however if IA isnt willing to release any figures and its really a pretty critical & fundamental issue... then something like this appears that would at least give some clue, a hint to the numbers then of course people are going to latch on to it. Weve been wanting those numbers since the 2013/14 season. Yet its apparently "Top Secret". What other teams guard these numbers so assiduously? If it was the NBA with its $24B Contract & Local Contract's that are sky high then ok. Who cares if theres only 1500 or 3000 or 7500 STH's? Obviously its not the NBA. Not even close. How does one go about truly measuring the success of an NHL Franchise without knowing what the numbers are so unless about 2500 ST Holders skipped lastnights Sell Out Game & re-sold their tickets on the secondary market, didnt show up themselves then what? What conclusion would you draw? Or just leave it alone & open, a question tha'tll never be answered, never be known? If for example they are at 2500 STH's, or even 7500, then you can broadstroke numbers, look ahead & determine what they need in new subscribers & sales. Sure its a negative but its also a waterline, baseline, a marker. How many new ST's are they selling from one year to the next and why no publicly stated goal with respect to those numbers? Rather moot now seeing as how theyve burned all of their bridges in Glendale, "were gone", but then, how does one rationalize their claims that a new arena on the east side will result in a 1000% + percent increase in ticket sales when the existing numbers are beyond sub-basement levels and theyve failed, and I mean on Epic proportions if that picture is even remotely accurate at GRA? We are talking Kansas City Scouts, Cleveland Barons territory here.

 

[CasualFan]

Judging the season ticket base from a photo like this is just nuts.

Yeah. Tabloid BOH is pretty much the worst BOH. It's like megathread version of "fake news"

 

[TheLegend]

Maybe the photo is just being done to make it look like the season ticket base and create the impression that they're in the wrong location.

I'm sure they can easily double the season ticket base moving to the East side . We had a standing room only crowd tonight with about 300 STHs....imagine what we do on the east side!

In all more liklihood, they probably just decided to take this photo at the last moment as soon as the game ended. Long term thinking can't be allowed

Maybe they were just trying to do something nice for the STHs without any covert sub plot in mind? On top of the notion that it was something optional and some STHs who were at the game may have chose not to participate.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Forgive me, they should have phrased the request something like "If you don't report to the ice immediately after the end of the game on Saturday, we're going to assume you don't exist, and you'll never see your team ever again. Well, not after this April anyway"

I confess, I had other plans and did not attend the game. Which means that whoever sat in my seats probably did not "stand up and be counted".

You guys are a real piece of work