Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

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WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Ah. This is what makes popcorn sales go up. There are 10 days worth of legislative intrigue between now and then.

What about the SB 1404? Do you or WG have any news on that yet today?
,

If I had to guess, I'd say SB1404 is probably toast. A few of its provisions/protections for the taxpayer might be amended into SB1480, since a supporter of SB1480 testified yesterday that Sen. Lesko had some "concerns" and they want to work with her. But SB1480 doesn't appear to have anything in it that would slow the Coyotes plan, and having won in the Finance Committee 5-2 yesterday, it appears that Committee probably prefers that pro-development approach. The bill probably has nothing to do directly with the Coyotes, but its moderate pro-development language seems to have taken the wind out of SB1404's sails.

So if SB1404 goes down because it didn't have the support in the Finance Committee, as evidenced by Sen. Lesko pulling the bill from its hearing yesterday, that gets to Rep. Kern's frustration at what's happening with Worsley's bill. It also didn't have enough votes in its first Committee apparently, because Worsley pulled it from its scheduled Commerce Committee hearing. But Worsley finangled some transportation language into the bill, got it moved to the Committee he chairs, and presto, he passes the bill 6-1. Most bills don't have that opportunity for a second chance, so Rep. Kern is crying foul.

As far as what the Rules Committee will do next, it now probably won't have the competing bills passed from two committees that I anticipated - Worsley's and Lesko's - so it will have less excuse to let them cancel each other out and let them both wither without a vote. At some point, they probably will assign it to the Finance Committee or to the floor of the Senate. If Rules doesn't like the bill, they might wait and do it later in the session. At some point, the Rules Committee will probably have to start meeting more often than weekly, because as bills come out of committees, their job is to assign them elsewhere and make up the daily schedule for bills going to the floor, and that will start to happen fast and furious soon. By the end of the session, they'll probably be meeting daily, which means we might be here reading tea leaves almost full-time. :popcorn:

Oh, and since according to Worsley, every bill - and I guess that means every post, too - should have a "transportation" connection, I just want to point out I used a "take the wind out of SB1404's sails" reference above. That should make this post eligible to get to the favorable Transportation Committee. Just tryin' to play by the AZ legislature's rules! :)
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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At what point does Glendale play hard ball with the Coyotes? Up until now they've been relatively quiet but issuing the team an ultimatum could make sense if a new competing arena and the loss of their primary tenant become a real threat. The fact that the Coyotes' lease comes up for renewal mid-season could be potentially problematic for Mr. Leblanc.

In any case, considering that prior to becoming the mayor of Glendale, Mr. Weiers served 4 terms in the State Legislature representing the West Valley, you have to imagine he's been working the phones recently and calling up a few of his old mates.

Publicly the COG's been taking the high road, Worsley mentioning in Committee that he has talked with Glendale, indicating that yes, they'd like to keep the team, willing to sit down & try & work something out with them in conjunction with AEG. If at any of these meetings Worsley had with Glendale behind closed doors City rep's filled him in on what went down, pointing out the various problems in the Compliance Report along with showing him the publicly unreleased portions it certainly didnt change his mind at all. Made a point of the fact that Glendale wasnt in attendance, nor were any of the other parties who had a stake in the Bill who were/are opposed to it (with the exception of the Az Tax Watchdogs). Thus far, Glendale has been largely silent at least publicly, careful about what their saying, and if what they told Worsley in private is any indication, didnt change his mind at all, leads me to wonder if their not being very careful about what their saying behind closed doors as well. Playing Powderpuff. Not dropping the gloves in presenting Legislators with all of the information that they need in order to fully understand just exactly who & what it is their dealing with. How they've operated & what the passing of this Bill will very likely potentially wreak on any other municipality who buys into it. Whole host of other issues as well, oversaturation of the market & so on.

Indeed, this is a math equation for the NHL and their owners. Long term they believe the Phoenix market will work. In the short term, they won't allow the Coyotes to move and diminish the next expansion fee. Even if the NHL has to prop up the Coyotes for a few more years, it is still cheaper then giving up a 500 mill+ franchise fee in the next few years. One way or the other, as I have said all along, the team is staying in Phoenix.

This theory is entirely possible, sure. Thing is, if its entirely a math equation at what point does the deficit column plumb to depths that will affect franchise values league wide? Because once that happens thats when the rubber will hit the road, the other 30 clubs demanding the NHL cut its losses & bail already. Without direct-subsidies, without the passing of the Bill & the door shut in Glendales faces, what then?
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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At what point does Glendale play hard ball with the Coyotes? Up until now they've been relatively quiet but issuing the team an ultimatum could make sense if a new competing arena and the loss of their primary tenant become a real threat. The fact that the Coyotes' lease comes up for renewal mid-season could be potentially problematic for Mr. Leblanc.

In any case, considering that prior to becoming the mayor of Glendale, Mr. Weiers served 4 terms in the State Legislature representing the West Valley, you have to imagine he's been working the phones recently and calling up a few of his old mates.

Right, and as I said above, they seem to be taking the high road. Not dropping the gloves. That Worsley wasnt totally shutdown & this Bill never seeing the light of day... yet here we are, passed a couple of hurdles.... I know I would be Sundancer, dropping the gloves, a lot more than the semi-tepid almost meek releases the COG has released, comments theyve made. You owe it to your electorate, to your City. By their own admission, multiple Declaration's of War, IA does not consider Glendale Arena an option. Bam. Done with them. Fine. If Im Glendale, Im going nuclear on your hineys. It'll be Glendale or nothing. Let loose the Dogs of War & chase them right out of the State. Investment in the arena etc, its already a write-off. Whats done is done. Sprint Center in KC, arenas elsewhere surviving. Accept it already, that teams gone. And if people want to revise history & claim thereafter that your legacy as a politician is that "your the guy who drove the NHL out of the State" why would you even care when the facts supported such actions? Takes Balls to do that, not seeing any from Glendale. Stand the **** Up already & start swinging, publicly. Let it all hang out. Go after the NHL, IA, Worsley & his flock of sheep & if that means getting personal too bad so sad.
 

powerstuck

Nordiques Hopes Lies
Jan 13, 2012
7,604
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What does it matter? The number is irrelevant; a handout is a handout. This went from "not costing the taxpayers a dime", to $225 million of public money plus additional annual "maintenance" costs in a red hot minute.:help:

Clearly this new arena & the move across town is just window dressing & proof positive that regardless of their location & yet another brand new building, this team CANNOT survive without Arizona taxpayers absorbing their losses. :shakehead

Any elected official who supports this plan should be public enemy #1 to the voters come election day. Shameful. :rant:

Problem with Arizona is they all say the same and they all do the same. Last time Glendale had elections, the mayor who won was all about not giving a dime to Coyotes. He gets elected, okay he does reduce the AMF from $15M to $5M, but FFS that's till $5M too many.
 

Killion

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Feb 19, 2010
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Problem with Arizona is they all say the same and they all do the same. Last time Glendale had elections, the mayor who won was all about not giving a dime to Coyotes. He gets elected, okay he does reduce the AMF from $15M to $5M, but FFS that's till $5M too many.

... yeah, though I dont have a problem with the financial arrangements, terms theyve made with AEG & revised IA contract... however...
wheres Mayor Jerry The Great White Hunter now? Has more than enough ammo to be using on the NHL & IA, why isnt he using it?
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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[Tinfoil Hat On]

When the 'presentation' was made before the STTC on still looking for 'financial supporters'...this blog post was made on Dec. 23, 2016 before LeBlanc had renewed the current lease for one more year...

To quote:

"Maintaining assets under management of nearly $1 billion, Mr. [Darin] Pastor saw profit potential for the [then Phoenix Coyotes - Ed.] team, which had a $170 million price tag associated with its sale.

Despite its history of financial instability, the Phoenix Coyotes were an excellent team that generated community support and fan excitement, and achieved the Western Conference championship in 2012. Mr. Pastor described the team as young and motivated, and the staff as committed to success. He also saw value in the team’s arena venue in Glendale, adjacent to the Arizona Cardinals stadium.

In his proposal, Mr. Pastor emphasized his intention to keep the team in the local area. while working to increase youth participation in hockey in partnership with area sponsors, schools, and non-profit organizations. However, this proposal was ultimately declined by the NHL in mid-2013."

Source: https://darinpastor.wordpress.com/2...2013-bid-to-purchase-the-nhl-phoenix-coyotes/

[Tinfoil Hat Off]
 

SunDancer

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Jan 4, 2015
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Publicly the COG's been taking the high road, Worsley mentioning in Committee that he has talked with Glendale, indicating that yes, they'd like to keep the team, willing to sit down & try & work something out with them in conjunction with AEG. If at any of these meetings Worsley had with Glendale behind closed doors City rep's filled him in on what went down, pointing out the various problems in the Compliance Report along with showing him the publicly unreleased portions it certainly didnt change his mind at all. Made a point of the fact that Glendale wasnt in attendance, nor were any of the other parties who had a stake in the Bill who were/are opposed to it (with the exception of the Az Tax Watchdogs). Thus far, Glendale has been largely silent at least publicly, careful about what their saying, and if what they told Worsley in private is any indication, didnt change his mind at all, leads me to wonder if their not being very careful about what their saying behind closed doors as well. Playing Powderpuff. Not dropping the gloves in presenting Legislators with all of the information that they need in order to fully understand just exactly who & what it is their dealing with. How they've operated & what the passing of this Bill will very likely potentially wreak on any other municipality who buys into it. Whole host of other issues as well, oversaturation of the market & so on.

It will be interesting to see how Glendale plays their hand going forward. At the moment it makes sense for the city to play nice in public and keep their scheming on the low while the Coyotes continue their lobbying. But if it looks like a competing arena will have shovels in the ground, Glendale would have every reason to protect their interests and adopt a "carrot and stick" approach with Leblanc ... and this council has shown they're not afraid of getting their hands dirty. In this light, the mid-season lease expiry is rather peculiar. Can't say if it was done intentionally or simply an oversight on someone's part, but it does seem to hand Glendale a pretty big club.
 

Montrealer

What, me worry?
Dec 12, 2002
3,967
239
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This seems to be suggesting how much the Coyotes will "invest" in the arena per year, not a subsidy from Mesa to run the arena. Notice Nashville is showing a negative investment, implying that they don't offset fully the subsidy they receive from the city of Nashville to play in the arena ($3.8M IIRC) with investments in the arena itself (which is owned by the local sports authority and county).

Now, how are they calculating these investments? Who knows. Funny math I'm sure, but they're definitely trying to show how amazing a partner they will be by portraying a ridiculous amount of annual investment into the facility. Unless they're planning on ripping and replacing substantial portions of the arena every summer it doesn't make any sense.

I think I just figured out the high figure for the Minnesota Wild.

The Wild were able to get the State of Minnesota to waive $17M of debt by offering the arena for 50 days a year for public events at no charge. I'd imagine that's being rolled into the "investment" that the team makes into the arena.

Perhaps the Coyotes are planning something similar?
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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I think I just figured out the high figure for the Minnesota Wild.

The Wild were able to get the State of Minnesota to waive $17M of debt by offering the arena for 50 days a year for public events at no charge. I'd imagine that's being rolled into the "investment" that the team makes into the arena.

Perhaps the Coyotes are planning something similar?

I don't think that's it, although that's a good info find. Glendale has a similar arrangement, where in partial exchange for the public's investment, high school sports will get some use of the facility. It's good for optics, if nothing else, and does nicely spread the benefits of the building around to young people.

As posted above, I think the Wild have the much higher operating costs than most arenas because they manage a three-building complex that includes an arena, a center for trade shows, and a large public events auditorium. The Wild actually manage three facilities, not one. If IA was trying to make it look like their "cost" of $24.4 million is somehow within the normal range because of the Wild's high figure, they're being disingenuous. IA is only proposing to manage one building, not several.

If I'm a legislator and that distinction isn't made clear to me (and there was no asterisk or explanation on that slide we saw), then I'm either real suspicious that their research is lousy, and then why should I trust their other numbers; or I'm furious that they're hoodwinking me with apples and oranges comparisons.

Either way, I tell them to take a flying leap (obligatory transportation reference there) and they don't get my vote.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
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As posted above, I think the Wild have the much higher operating costs than most arenas because they manage a three-building complex that includes an arena, a center for trade shows, and a large public events auditorium. The Wild actually manage three facilities, not one. If IA was trying to make it look like their "cost" of $24.4 million is somehow within the normal range because of the Wild's high figure, they're being disingenuous. IA is only proposing to manage one building, not several.

Absolutely they do. Thats 3 major venues all interconnected, triple the cost. Heating bill alone... Minnesota winters when it hits absolute zero on the Kelvin Scale & all sub atomic
matter stops moving?... My God.... though Im pretty sure their Frat Brother Matthew Hulsizer up there in Twin Cities will back that totally bogus claim if ever asked to verify, confirm.
 

cobra427

Registered User
May 6, 2012
9,375
3,415
Publicly the COG's been taking the high road, Worsley mentioning in Committee that he has talked with Glendale, indicating that yes, they'd like to keep the team, willing to sit down & try & work something out with them in conjunction with AEG. If at any of these meetings Worsley had with Glendale behind closed doors City rep's filled him in on what went down, pointing out the various problems in the Compliance Report along with showing him the publicly unreleased portions it certainly didnt change his mind at all. Made a point of the fact that Glendale wasnt in attendance, nor were any of the other parties who had a stake in the Bill who were/are opposed to it (with the exception of the Az Tax Watchdogs). Thus far, Glendale has been largely silent at least publicly, careful about what their saying, and if what they told Worsley in private is any indication, didnt change his mind at all, leads me to wonder if their not being very careful about what their saying behind closed doors as well. Playing Powderpuff. Not dropping the gloves in presenting Legislators with all of the information that they need in order to fully understand just exactly who & what it is their dealing with. How they've operated & what the passing of this Bill will very likely potentially wreak on any other municipality who buys into it. Whole host of other issues as well, oversaturation of the market & so on.



This theory is entirely possible, sure. Thing is, if its entirely a math equation at what point does the deficit column plumb to depths that will affect franchise values league wide? Because once that happens thats when the rubber will hit the road, the other 30 clubs demanding the NHL cut its losses & bail already. Without direct-subsidies, without the passing of the Bill & the door shut in Glendales faces, what then?

If letting the Coyotes move jeopardizes the next 500/600 mill franchise fee, the math is roughly 20 mill per owner. Or, if the NHL has to pitch in debt for now, say 30 mill a year or 1 mill per owner, that is the path they will go down. The NHL would have debt that would be in a first position and be paid back at a later date while the 500/600 mill is all cash. The team moving to a market that would other wise have to pay a franchise fee to be part of the NHL club, would kill any future expansion fees. They just took a huge fee from Vegas, just a few hours from Phoenix, and I am sure Vegas was told, the only way into the club is the franchise fee.

If the NHL was convinced that hockey won't work in Phoenix long term or if they were done expanding, this would be a different story, the team would have moved by now. Phoenix is a sacred cow, at this time.
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
1,072
159
Absolutely they do. Thats 3 major venues all interconnected, triple the cost. Heating bill alone... Minnesota winters when it hits absolute zero on the Kelvin Scale & all sub atomic
matter stops moving?... My God.... though Im pretty sure their Frat Brother Matthew Hulsizer up there in Twin Cities will back that totally bogus claim if ever asked to verify, confirm.

Yeah, Hulsizer got to buy a part of the Wild after he played nice and did the NHL a fave by taking a good long look at buying the Coyotes. I wonder which team will get LeBlanc and Co. as investors if they continue to do what the NHL wants and play this string out in AZ as long as they can? Some lucky franchise will get them, you can bet on it. Gary doesn't forget his enemies . . . or his friends.
 

GuelphStormer

Registered User
Mar 20, 2012
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499
Guelph, ON
Yeah, Hulsizer got to buy a part of the Wild after he played nice and did the NHL a fave by taking a good long look at buying the Coyotes. I wonder which team will get LeBlanc and Co. as investors if they continue to do what the NHL wants and play this string out in AZ as long as they can? Some lucky franchise will get them, you can bet on it. Gary doesn't forget his enemies . . . or his friends.

Im guessing this team ...


3d06844d7a44163a347b86f078afa64c.jpg
 

mesamonster

Registered User
Oct 13, 2011
2,261
219
Scottsdale, AZ.
I don't think that's it, although that's a good info find. Glendale has a similar arrangement, where in partial exchange for the public's investment, high school sports will get some use of the facility. It's good for optics, if nothing else, and does nicely spread the benefits of the building around to young people.

As posted above, I think the Wild have the much higher operating costs than most arenas because they manage a three-building complex that includes an arena, a center for trade shows, and a large public events auditorium. The Wild actually manage three facilities, not one. If IA was trying to make it look like their "cost" of $24.4 million is somehow within the normal range because of the Wild's high figure, they're being disingenuous. IA is only proposing to manage one building, not several.

If I'm a legislator and that distinction isn't made clear to me (and there was no asterisk or explanation on that slide we saw), then I'm either real suspicious that their research is lousy, and then why should I trust their other numbers; or I'm furious that they're hoodwinking me with apples and oranges comparisons.

Either way, I tell them to take a flying leap (obligatory transportation reference there) and they don't get my vote.

I believe the Wild also manage their own catering and other services out of the old Minnesota Club. Also, they recently announced that they will be developing on the old Macy`s site in St. Paul a practice facility and team offices.
 

Slashers98

Registered User
Oct 3, 2008
2,387
327
Quebec City
If letting the Coyotes move jeopardizes the next 500/600 mill franchise fee, the math is roughly 20 mill per owner. Or, if the NHL has to pitch in debt for now, say 30 mill a year or 1 mill per owner, that is the path they will go down. The NHL would have debt that would be in a first position and be paid back at a later date while the 500/600 mill is all cash. The team moving to a market that would other wise have to pay a franchise fee to be part of the NHL club, would kill any future expansion fees. They just took a huge fee from Vegas, just a few hours from Phoenix, and I am sure Vegas was told, the only way into the club is the franchise fee.

If the NHL was convinced that hockey won't work in Phoenix long term or if they were done expanding, this would be a different story, the team would have moved by now. Phoenix is a sacred cow, at this time.

Glendale is done giving them millions after millions in subsidy, so don't be so sure about that...
 

Llama19

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
7,298
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Outside GZ
Yeah, Hulsizer got to buy a part of the Wild after he played nice and did the NHL a fave by taking a good long look at buying the Coyotes. I wonder which team will get LeBlanc and Co. as investors if they continue to do what the NHL wants and play this string out in AZ as long as they can? Some lucky franchise will get them, you can bet on it. Gary doesn't forget his enemies . . . or his friends.

Hulsizer had part ownership...but is out now...

To quote:

"Hulsizer stepped in 18 months ago to assume Phil Falcone’s share of the Wild.

Leipold said he and Hulsizer are departing on friendly terms. The decision is driven by Leipold’s desire to keep the Wild in his family long-term and Hulsizer’s desire to eventually own a larger chunk of the franchise and be more involved in hockey decisions.

Hulsizer, the co-founder and chief executive officer of Chicago-based PEAK6 Investments, L.P., purchased Falcone’s stake of the Wild in February, 2015. As part of that transaction, Leipold had the ability to call back Hulsizer’s shares after 18 months. If Leipold had not exercised that option, Hulsizer could have required Leipold to buy back his shares in another year.

Once Leipold explained to Hulsizer he wasn’t interested in selling a larger stake of the team, the two agreed to part ways."

Source: http://www.startribune.com/wild-boss-craig-leipold-to-buy-out-minority-owner/388994391/

So...will Hulsizer and Pastor be teaming up with LeBlanc... :naughty:
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
27,947
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What's your excuse?
If letting the Coyotes move jeopardizes the next 500/600 mill franchise fee, the math is roughly 20 mill per owner. Or, if the NHL has to pitch in debt for now, say 30 mill a year or 1 mill per owner, that is the path they will go down. The NHL would have debt that would be in a first position and be paid back at a later date while the 500/600 mill is all cash. The team moving to a market that would other wise have to pay a franchise fee to be part of the NHL club, would kill any future expansion fees. They just took a huge fee from Vegas, just a few hours from Phoenix, and I am sure Vegas was told, the only way into the club is the franchise fee.

If the NHL was convinced that hockey won't work in Phoenix long term or if they were done expanding, this would be a different story, the team would have moved by now. Phoenix is a sacred cow, at this time.

I dunno, if someone wrote me a check for 25 mill a year, I would be inclined to do a lot for that person.
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
1,072
159
Hulsizer had part ownership...but is out now...

To quote:

"Hulsizer stepped in 18 months ago to assume Phil Falcone’s share of the Wild.

Leipold said he and Hulsizer are departing on friendly terms. The decision is driven by Leipold’s desire to keep the Wild in his family long-term and Hulsizer’s desire to eventually own a larger chunk of the franchise and be more involved in hockey decisions.

Hulsizer, the co-founder and chief executive officer of Chicago-based PEAK6 Investments, L.P., purchased Falcone’s stake of the Wild in February, 2015. As part of that transaction, Leipold had the ability to call back Hulsizer’s shares after 18 months. If Leipold had not exercised that option, Hulsizer could have required Leipold to buy back his shares in another year.

Once Leipold explained to Hulsizer he wasn’t interested in selling a larger stake of the team, the two agreed to part ways."

Source: http://www.startribune.com/wild-boss-craig-leipold-to-buy-out-minority-owner/388994391/

So...will Hulsizer and Pastor be teaming up with LeBlanc... :naughty:

Wow, I missed that. Thanks for the info.
 

Llama19

Registered User
Jan 19, 2013
7,298
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Outside GZ


Once podcast is uploaded...will post a link...


Podcast not uploaded...yet

Podcast link: http://media.1080thefan.com/a/118450625/dirt-sprague-thursday-2-16-17-hour-3.htm?

However, there was one take away from the interview...

Craig Harris stated the bill will likely come to the Senate floor (which is majority Republican) and possibly pass...then move to the House floor (which is also majority Republican)...but because of bi-partisan support, will likely get killed as of the aforementioned post earlier on the underfunding of education...which is top priority on the Democratic side of the House, and Governor Ducey has stated it is also his priority...

Still...many dips, twists, and turns will be had...for that I am sure...

Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy one in the State Legislature... ;)
 
Last edited:

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
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^^^ I must say, Im really surprised, borderline shocked that its even gotten as far as it has.
 

aqib

Registered User
Feb 13, 2012
5,524
1,567
Podcast not uploaded...yet

However, there was one take away from the interview...

Craig Harris stated the bill will likely come to the Senate floor (which is majority Republican) and possibly pass...then move to the House floor (which is also majority Republican)...but because of bi-partisan support, will likely get killed as of the aforementioned post earlier on the underfunding of education...which is top priority on the Democratic side of the House, and Governor Ducey has stated it is also his priority...

Still...many dips, twists, and turns will be had...for that I am sure...

Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy one in the State Legislature... ;)

http://media.1080thefan.com/a/118450625/dirt-sprague-thursday-2-16-17-hour-3.htm
 

TheLegend

"Just say it 3 times..."
Aug 30, 2009
38,581
31,718
Buzzing BoH
^^^ I must say, Im really surprised, borderline shocked that its even gotten as far as it has.

Never underestimate (or overestimate) the AZ state legislature. :naughty:

Absolutely they do. Thats 3 major venues all interconnected, triple the cost. Heating bill alone... Minnesota winters when it hits absolute zero on the Kelvin Scale & all sub atomic
matter stops moving?... My God.... though Im pretty sure their Frat Brother Matthew Hulsizer up there in Twin Cities will back that totally bogus claim if ever asked to verify, confirm.

Is it any different than maintaining an ice skating facility in 115 degree plus summers.??? ;)
 

Headshot77

Bad Photoshopper
Feb 15, 2015
4,036
2,065
Pittsburgh
Podcast not uploaded...yet

Podcast link: http://media.1080thefan.com/a/118450625/dirt-sprague-thursday-2-16-17-hour-3.htm?

However, there was one take away from the interview...

Craig Harris stated the bill will likely come to the Senate floor (which is majority Republican) and possibly pass...then move to the House floor (which is also majority Republican)...but because of bi-partisan support, will likely get killed as of the aforementioned post earlier on the underfunding of education...which is top priority on the Democratic side of the House, and Governor Ducey has stated it is also his priority...

Still...many dips, twists, and turns will be had...for that I am sure...

Fasten your seatbelts, it’s going to be a bumpy one in the State Legislature... ;)

Just curious, and this may be OT, but why would republicans support this bill? I thought they were supposed to be all about small government, and less tax money being wasted on paying for fledgling hockey teams.
 
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