Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

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Glacial

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Jan 8, 2013
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So.....is this joke actually happening?

[:facepalm:] Passed the first committee

[:facepalm:] Passed the second committee

[ ] Passed the House

[ ] Passed the Senate

[ ] Signed by the Governor

Still room for three more facepalms.

I think if it passes the House & Senate, the Governor will sign it.
 

powerstuck

Nordiques Hopes Lies
Jan 13, 2012
7,602
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Town NHL hates !
The bill could go all the way and get approved by the president if needed...

Am I right if I say that as long as they don't secure the last $55M from the host city, all of this is a moot point ?
 

Fugu

RIP Barb
Nov 26, 2004
36,951
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I think we're eventually going to wind up with Detroit in a Central Division that only visits the other 24 teams once a year. You can't hold Quebec City out of the league forever because it might hurt Mike Ilitch's feelings. Mike Ilitch is dead as a doornail.

Detroit isn't going back. You need to drop this line right now.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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[:facepalm:] Passed the first committee

[:facepalm:] Passed the second committee

[ ] Passed the House

[ ] Passed the Senate

[ ] Signed by the Governor

Still room for three more facepalms.

I think if it passes the House & Senate, the Governor will sign it.

The bill could go all the way and get approved by the president if needed...

Am I right if I say that as long as they don't secure the last $55M from the host city, all of this is a moot point ?

Yep...the real rube will be the city that hands LeBlanc a 'LeBlank' cheque... :shakehead
 

MNNumbers

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Very interesting article. The opposition is seeing things clearly, except that no one has made any comment on the particulars of IA's 'occupancy cost.' And, I suppose it makes sense they wouldn't, given that might actually have to be settled between the municipality and the team.

Yet, I like the comments about these 4 things:
1- Taxpayers don't like to give money to sports teams.
2- Glendale already built them a palace
3- They should work something out with Glendale
4- You are committing present $$ in bonds which are predicted to be offset by futuer taxes, and that doesn't always work out.

Well done. Now, hold to your convictions ladies and gentlemen....
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Of the six Senators quoted, four are among the very highest-ranking Republicans, and one is the highest-ranking Democrat, so they probably represent the thinking of their caucuses very well. And of the 6, reading the tea leaves, you'd guess a vote right now would be 5 against and only Worsley for. Plus all those non-supportive Democrats alluded to by Sen. Hobbs. I know Worsley has his 5 other supporters from those who voted aye on the Transportation Committee, but with those power brokers against it, it looks like it's toast.

Tony's going to have to hoodwink Phoenix or the tribes, see if one of them will give him his $225 mill and ongoing subsidy. But I don't think he'll give up. Just take his traveling stadium show to another city and start putting up the carnival tents there . . . :popcorn:
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Of the six Senators quoted, four are among the very highest-ranking Republicans, and one is the highest-ranking Democrat, so they probably represent the thinking of their caucuses very well. And of the 6, reading the tea leaves, you'd guess a vote right now would be 5 against and only Worsley for. Plus all those non-supportive Democrats alluded to by Sen. Hobbs. I know Worsley has his 5 other supporters from those who voted aye on the Transportation Committee, but with those power brokers against it, it looks like it's toast.

Tony's going to have to hoodwink Phoenix or the tribes, see if one of them will give him his $225 mill and ongoing subsidy. But I don't think he'll give up. Just take his traveling stadium show to another city and start putting up the carnival tents there . . . :popcorn:

To quote from the article:

"Coyotes Chief Executive Anthony LeBlanc said the team will continue seeking support at the Legislature.

"There are a lot of moving parts in this legislative process and everything is malleable and open for discussion until the very end. We will continue to educate lawmakers about a complex project that creates a true public-private partnership and offers the Coyotes an economically viable solution to remain in the Valley for the long term," LeBlanc said."

That is definitely a salesman's mentality...
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Very interesting article. The opposition is seeing things clearly, except that no one has made any comment on the particulars of IA's 'occupancy cost.' And, I suppose it makes sense they wouldn't, given that might actually have to be settled between the municipality and the team.

Yet, I like the comments about these 4 things:
1- Taxpayers don't like to give money to sports teams.
2- Glendale already built them a palace
3- They should work something out with Glendale
4- You are committing present $$ in bonds which are predicted to be offset by futuer taxes, and that doesn't always work out.

Well done. Now, hold to your convictions ladies and gentlemen....

Yes, it looks like common sense finally broke through. I want to make it clear I feel for the good hockey fans in Arizona who are being taken for this ride, and for this (probable) latest setback. But if MNN and I seem to have the same penchant for good stewardship of taxpayer dollars (OK, so we might look a little like the MN "Twins" in our thinking), a little story:

Minnesota lost its beloved North Stars when their arena's city refused to give the owner land that he wanted to develop between the Mall of America and arena. Giving him the land would have kept our team, but it would have been wrong, not why a city exists. I never heard a single Minnesotan complain about that decision, even diehard hockey fans.

Similarly, we could have had the Jets. Our situation was what LeBlanc is going to face with Sarver. Minneapolis negotiated with Burke and Gluckstern to house the Jets in Target Center, home to the NBA Timberwolves. In the end, splitting the arena's income stream was going to harm the Wolves economically, and Minneapolis wouldn't do that. They could have opted to let the Wolves keep all the income-generating aspects of the arena and give big subsidies to the Jets to get them, but they wouldn't do it. Again, that's not why a city exists. Not only did I not hear complaints, but I rooted against the scheme, hoping it would give Winnipeg a chance to keep their team (they did end up staying in the 'Peg for another year when Mpls. rejected a deal).

So I really don't like to see cities lose their teams. But building multiple arenas, only to let one lie empty, is a ridiculous use of taxpayer funds. It's wrong. Sen. Yee was right - IA should be dealing with Glendale (and spend some of that $170 million they claim they'll spend to do some effective marketing of their product!).
 

WildGopher

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Jun 13, 2012
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Still only past the preliminary steps. The main event is still to come.

To our Yotes fans, hope you're having a better night watching your team than the news in the article Wildcat found. Looks like the Yotes are really running and gunning with the Blackhawks in Chicago tonight - 3-3 after 1 period. That's got to be a wild game!
 

Mightygoose

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Nov 5, 2012
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If it's scheduled, it's not posted on the AZ legislature website yet, but I think Craig Harris with the AZ Republic said "next week."

So if these tea leaves are correct and the Senate votes no, is there any other recourse or is the bill dead - dead and then it's time to have 'discussions' about 'things'?

Edit: Sportsnet has picked up the story on this. Offical NHL media partner. Gaining traction FWIW.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/coyotes-proposed-395-million-arena-deal-facing-opposition/
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
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So if these tea leaves are correct and the Senate votes no, is there any other recourse or is the bill dead - dead and then it's time to have 'discussions' about 'things'?

It would take a miracle to resurrect it in the legislature if it loses in the Senate - like a meteor hitting Gila River Arena. LeBlanc would say he was planning to stay at GRA for the next 10 so he could get 10 years worth of insurance payments, and then he might get his new arena funded by the leg. Otherwise, it's Phoenix, the tribes, or other "things."
 

WildGopher

Registered User
Jun 13, 2012
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Sad to say, but planting rumors like that sometimes is the way it's done ahead of a vote to put pressure on a government to cough up the bucks or lose a team.

But you can only use that trick so many times, and sometimes the four major league sports get what they deserve when a government calls their bluff and says no. I think that's what'll happen here.
 

Llama19

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Jan 19, 2013
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Sad to say, but planting rumors like that sometimes is the way it's done ahead of a vote to put pressure on a government to cough up the bucks or lose a team.

But you can only use that trick so many times, and sometimes the four major league sports get what they deserve when a government calls their bluff and says no. I think that's what'll happen here.

Yes...pressure that really is not pressure, as there is no real leverage left...

The only local option that seems to be available is working with the tribal group(s)...which is not really an option at all...

It looks like LeBlanc has run out of runway...
 

cbcwpg

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May 18, 2010
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Between the Pipes
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...-million-arena-deal-on-life-support/98321466/

"You are using taxpayers' money to prefund a significant private enterprise" Yarbrough said "And those don't always turn out so well"

**

After 13 years of the taxpayers doing exactly that in Glendale, and where we find ourselves today, this would be the understatement of the whole Coyote's saga.

ce5a11df5e5abed9c03db6a3f47108fd.jpg
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
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"There are a lot of moving parts in this legislative process and everything is malleable and open for discussion until the very end."

... gettin a little hot in there for you Tony?...
rdthrth_o_GIFSoupcom-1-1-1.gif
... yea?.... so whats next smart guy?
 

The Feckless Puck

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Oct 26, 2006
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To our Yotes fans, hope you're having a better night watching your team than the news in the article Wildcat found. Looks like the Yotes are really running and gunning with the Blackhawks in Chicago tonight - 3-3 after 1 period. That's got to be a wild game!

It ended about as well as this whole arena situation is going to... :laugh:



More tea leaves...
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,440
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So after all the assurances and repeated projections of fan growth in Glendale LeBlanc is trying to convince everyone he can that it was all a ruse and Glendale was never viable. I believe now more than ever that they had no intention of staying beyond 5 years, and unless they get some ridiculously lucrative land deal and tax grab to pay off debts and subsidize the Yotes, they'll vamoose as planned.

I really do wonder how long the lovefest between the fans and LeBlanc can last. Fans need to start bypassing LeBlanc and pressuring Bettman to get stable ownership and work to keep the team in Phoenix. LeBlanc and IA don't have the wherewithal to get this done.
 

Aavco Cup

"I can make you cry in this room"
Sep 5, 2013
37,630
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Haven't been here for 6 months or so.....is everything still 2 weeks away?

The more things change the more they stay the same
 
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