Phoenix CXXIII: Who Wants to Pay Our Bills?

[Killion]

Uh oh.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw ....
..... but then again, most probably not. Carry on..................

 

[WildGopher]

I'm sure you've already checked this, but the Rules Committee is meeting in a caucus room, where there is no television coverage, so we'll have to rely on Harris' tweets or the committee minutes for news.

Or maybe just listen carefully for LeBlanc's screams, pro or con.

Never mind. Passed, already posted above. I wonder what the vote was, though.

 

[MNNumbers]

MNNumbers NHL Alignment and Schedule with 31 teams if ARZ>>>QUE

First, notice that with 31 teams, 4 separate conferences is no more imbalanced than any 2-conference setup. Also, notice that continuing to keep the 3-games with the other division AND the home/home with everyone becomes impossible with a 32-team league. Therefore, at some point, the wild card will disappear. I propose the WILD CARD disappears immediately. We will have 4-conferences, and each conference will play the other 3 conferences home/home. The remainder of games will be in-conference.

Now, the Conferences:
Western: All teams from MTZ and PTZ. This is 8 teams. These teams will have 6 road games in the CTZ and 17 road games in the ETZ each year. No more. Once against all of those teams.

Central: All teams from the CTZ + Quebec. The Nords go here for one reason: They are new.

Atlantic and Metropolitan: According the corresponding divisions as now.

Playoffs will be 2 rounds in conference, and then re-seed according to Reg Season Points for the League Semi-Finals.

BattleBorn: Please note. This does not inconvenience your Knights any more than adding QC to the present Eastern Conference would.

Possible Adjustment which I would make, but the NHL would never make:
First note that all non-Central conferences will play 46 games out of conference, and therefore 36 in-conference. That is 5 games against all conference opponents + 1 more game (6teams/5games and 1team/6games).
Central teams will play 48 games out-of-conference, and 34 games in conference. In a balanced world, 34 games would be 4teams/6games + 2teams/5games.
I will adjust QUE schedule so they play 5 games against all conference opponents. The remaining 4 games will be played, 1 with each team, against a rotating collection of 4 teams from the NE corridor of teams (that’s DET/TOR/BUF/OTT/MTL/BOS). Each of those teams will now have only 35 in-conference games to play, and that’s simply 5 games vs all conference opponents.

Now, I know that BB, among others, will still object to the geography. I say, “It’s only slightly worse that having the Florida teams combined with Montreal, skipping over the whole Metro division.†And, I know that many will say, “NHL doesn’t want to do that.†And, I believe that is correct. They don’t WANT to.

However, I would love to see the day when NHL/IA/Bettman/BOG are forced to choose from between these:
1- Continuing to lose lots of $$ in Glendale because no one else there will build them another arena and give them a subsidy.
2- Guess that Seattle will work out, and move there with NO arena plan.
3- Sell to Paul Allen in Portland for about 170M
4- Sell to Quebecor in Quebec City.

 

[gravyleaves]

So was that a full 11 minutes of debate on this one or just a rubber stamp?

 

[Llama19]

So was that a full 11 minutes of debate on this one or just a rubber stamp?

Rubber stamp...

 

[WildGopher]

$225MM now? Or is that supposed to be the Coyotes "$170MM contribution" plus whichever sucker municipality's $55MM?

I believe it was $170 million in state bonds and $55 million in blood from a turnip - er, contribution - from the municipality. Total public contribution of $225 million. IA promises it will never be more than that

 

[MNNumbers]

Rubber stamp...

I thought you said it was going to fail?

 

[Llama19]

I thought you said it was going to fail?

That is what was passed along to me...hence the 'rubber stamp'...

Axiom is doing their job well...

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Just cue this puppy up:

 

[Ernie]

Someone needs to tip off John Oliver on this.

The levels of ridiculousness through this whole saga could easily fill a 20 minute segment.

 

[cutchemist42]

So.....is this joke actually happening?

 

[WildGopher]

So.....is this joke actually happening?

Tony is moving dirt as we speak!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

So.....is this joke actually happening?

Still only past the preliminary steps. The main event is still to come.

 

[GuelphStormer]

Still only past the preliminary steps. The main event is still to come.

so, can i clarify ... this bill establishes a taxation district that could potentially raise $225M over the next X years? is that essentially all it does?

does it address where the up-front money would come from to actually build it? im guessing it does not provide any sort of sniff test for the viability of IA's capacity to actually contribute now, nor possibly even into the future ... it just paves the way for a new tax-revenue mechanism moving forward?

 

[Mightygoose]

I'm sure you've already checked this, but the Rules Committee is meeting in a caucus room, where there is no television coverage, so we'll have to rely on Harris' tweets or the committee minutes for news.

Or maybe just listen carefully for LeBlanc's screams, pro or con.

Never mind. Passed, already posted above. I wonder what the vote was, though.

I thought you said it was going to fail?

I wonder if there was a vote at all.

I think it was mentioned yesterday that the Rules Committee is not really scrutinizing any bills, just sending them all to the senate floor.

Then the real votes start to count. Wonder when it will be scheduled>

 

[Llama19]

I wonder if there was a vote at all.

I think it was mentioned yesterday that the Rules Committee is not really scrutinizing any bills, just sending them all to the senate floor.

Then the real votes start to count. Wonder when it will be scheduled>

No vote...

RULES Committee- 01/19/2017 (Assign), 02/23/2017 (Report), PFC [Proper for Consideration] (Action), 0-0-0-0 (Vote)

 

[MNNumbers]

so, can i clarify ... this bill establishes a taxation district that could potentially raise $225M over the next X years? is that essentially all it does?

does it address where the up-front money would come from to actually build it? im guessing it does not provide any sort of sniff test for the viability of IA's capacity to actually contribute now, nor possibly even into the future ... it just paves the way for a new tax-revenue mechanism moving forward?

The bill allows a municipality to establish a Community Enhancement District, or some such mumbo-jumbo name. Inside of this CED (mumbo-jumbo) it allows the construction of an arena. The arena contributions are 170M-IA, 170M-tax relief in the CED, 55M-municipality itself.

The tax relief means that certain state taxes are diverted to defer construction costs (actually that means the state issues bonds to cover the costs, and the taxes pay the bonds). That means that there is no tax going into the general fund from land that could have been developed differently, and have raised taxes (and thus it is really tax money to sports owners). It means the taxpayers of AZ are on the hook for the bonds if the taxes don't pay the bonds off.

There is nothing in the bill about where IA's contribution comes from. Nor, from where the municipality's contribution comes from.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

There is nothing in the bill about where IA's contribution comes from. Nor, from where the municipality's contribution comes from.

...nor where the municipality's AMF money will come from, either, as the municipality is going to own the arena outright and thus will need to pay what IA estimates is over $24M/annum in occupancy costs.

 

[MNNumbers]

...nor where the municipality's AMF money will come from, either, as the municipality is going to own the arena outright and thus will need to pay what IA estimates is over $24M/annum in occupancy costs.

Thank you, and I hope that Mesa and Phoenix are well aware of this.

 

[Mightygoose]

Thank you, and I hope that Mesa and Phoenix are well aware of this.

This plus I was under the impression in both Phoenix and Mesa, a public vote would be needed to approve a new arena anyways. Could be mistaken on the later.

 

[Llama19]

Bill to help fund $395M arena for Arizona Coyotes clears second legislative hurdle

To quote:

"A bill that would help fund a $395 million arena for the Arizona Coyotes has cleared a second hurdle on its way to passing in the state Legislature.

Senate Bill 1149 passed the state Senate Rules Committee on Thursday. It heads to the floor for a full state Senate vote next week.

Coyotes President and CEO Anthony LeBlanc said the team has already renewed talks with other potential sites that were put on the backburner when the team was solely focused on the ASU location. Two sources confirmed that LeBlanc met with Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton two weeks ago.

“When we made the decision to go with the Tempe site in the fall, it was just that, a decision made by the Coyotes,†LeBlanc said. “Admittedly, we felt it was the best site and best path, but it isn’t the only path. We are re-engaging with other potential sites.â€"

Source: http://ktar.com/story/1469177/bill-...ona-coyotes-clears-second-legislative-hurdle/

 

[WildGopher]

...nor where the municipality's AMF money will come from, either, as the municipality is going to own the arena outright and thus will need to pay what IA estimates is over $24M/annum in occupancy costs.

Yeah, Tony, and Gary or Bill, if they come to testify at the required public hearing of the Community Engagement District, might appreciate this beaut in Worsley's bill:

48-3802 (C) 3.: "Testimony at the hearing need not be under oath, . . ."

It does go on to say a voter in the district or the district board itself can request that testimony be under oath by filing in writing. Uh, knowing the characters who might be coming to testify, and having seen some of them in action before the Glendale council, I sure hope somebody catches this and requests it.

To be fair to Worsley, he may be unaware of the significance of that clause at that hearing, where all sorts of pie-in-the sky projections are likely to be made by IA, ones which have so far been almost completely undocumented. Axiom probably wrote a good part of this bill, along with Worsley's staff, and understandably wants to protect their client from future liability for any loose projections or "facts" they spew in testimony, which history shows they will do.

Axiom's doing a good job for their client, but someone's got to start watching out for the taxpayer here.

 

[MNNumbers]

Yeah, Tony, and Gary or Bill, if they come to testify at the required public hearing of the Community Engagement District, might appreciate this beaut in Worsley's bill:

48-3802 (C) 3.: "Testimony at the hearing need not be under oath, . . ."

It does go on to say a voter in the district or the district board itself can request that testimony be under oath by filing in writing. Uh, knowing the characters who might be coming to testify, and having seen some of them in action before the Glendale council, I sure hope somebody catches this and requests it.

To be fair to Worsley, he may be unaware of the significance of that clause at that hearing, where all sorts of pie-in-the sky projections are likely to be made by IA, ones which have so far been almost completely undocumented. Axiom probably wrote a good part of this bill, along with Worsley's staff, and understandably wants to protect their client from future liability for any loose projections or "facts" they spew in testimony, which history shows they will do.

Axiom's doing a good job for their client, but someone's got to start watching out for the taxpayer here.

Nice catch WG

 

[GJB]

Axiom's doing a good job for their client, but someone's got to start watching out for the taxpayer here.

Goldwater, what have they been up to?

 

[madhi19]

Someone needs to tip off John Oliver on this.

The levels of ridiculousness through this whole saga could easily fill a 20 minute segment.

You're a bit late on that.