Player Discussion Phillip Danault: What's My Line Edition

[bsl]

How many goals Danault scores -- or, more specifically, that he scores a few, at least -- has more of a bearing on his overall confidence and how this affects the entire line's production as a two-way, shutdown line.

This Danault is a #1C\demands to be a #1C and must be a 20+ goals-scorer to be considered any good is just a narrative to marginalize the other qualities he brings to the ice.

His line's ability to shut down the opponents' best players and come out on top in the goal differential against these offensive studs is proof enough of the value of this line that is pivoted by Danault.

No, it can't be dismissed easily like the wingers are making the line do this in SPITE of Danault being the C. That's ridiculous and, yet, that's what is being championed as the reasoning behind their competitive edge over the last two years compared t some of the best offensive payers in the league.

People should be objective in what they say...

Danault's line is shit this year. Awful. And I predicted it would be.

 

[bsl]

The Selke trophy was created to give kudos for Gainey types (of which there was only one when introduced in 1977), it’s evolved (devolved?) into the offensive C crap over the last 15-years.

Afterall even the NHL says the Selke is presented “annually to the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game.”

And scores zero goals? LOL. If I recollect, Gainey scored a hell of a lot of important goals.

 

[salbutera]

Its not the trophy that has evolved but the utilisation of top players, theres no more checking third line, the third lines usually an exploitation line or energy, now its matching up the top talents to the top talents.

I take it back, Bergeron is still used as a shutdown C - PK, late period / late game situations etc. Datsyuk winning it for 3-consecutive years was a joke IMO - he was rarely if ever employed in this situations.

 

[salbutera]

And scores zero goals? LOL.

How many goals did Craig Ramsey average? Steve Kasper? Doug Jarvis? Rick Meagher?

 

[Mrb1p]

I take it back, Bergeron is still used as a shutdown C - PK, late period / late game situations etc. Datsyuk winning it for 3-consecutive years was a joke IMO - he was rarely if ever employed in this situations.

Datsyuk is probably the best 2-way player ever so idk where youre going with this.

 

[salbutera]

Datsyuk is probably the best 2-way player ever so idk where youre going with this.

He was a good 200-ft C but wasn’t Selke caliber defensively strong on the puck - in fact Babcock would use Helm, Draper etc for late period / game defensive situations.

Selke is not for 2-way hockey it’s for “ the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game” as defined by NHL.

As I posted previously NHL introduced the Selke to give Gainey an award or as the Soviets head coach Viktor Tikonov used to refer to him “technically the most complete player in the world”

 

[1000eeer]

I could see Minnesota or Nashville having interest in P. Danault.

Just saying..

 

[azcanuck]

Danault provides zero value to the team. He does not score goals, at all, and i think he is average to good defensively. Not great.

You have zero credibility after such a statement.
Danualt provides a lot of value if you watch the games and understand hockey. He's just not a first line center.

 

[Mrb1p]

He was a good 200-ft C but wasn’t Selke caliber defensively strong on the puck - in fact Babcock would use Helm, Draper etc for late period / game defensive situations.

Selke is not for 2-way hockey it’s for “ the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game” as defined by NHL.

As I posted previously NHL introduced the Selke to give Gainey an award or as the Soviets head coach Viktor Tikonov used to refer to him “technically the most complete player in the world”

Datsyuk faceoff percentage was always at the top.
Datsyuk is the best takeaway player of all time, with 365 in 230 from 08 to 11.
Datsyuks worse even strength goal differential is + 15, in a year where he only played 56 games, on average he gave a goal every 3 games while playing 18 minutes against the top line of the other team.
He has 12 ENG and 24 EN assists, which is pretty high for a guy that doesn't defend leads, don't you think ?

He played about a minute on the PK and thats fine because anybody can PK, he was mostly there to win draws, because he was one of the best int he league at it, anyway why would you want your franchise center to take shots from the likes of Weber, Souray, Zubov and Pronger when others can do this just as well ? Its not hard to defend a passing and shooting lane.

 

[salbutera]

Datsyuk faceoff percentage was always at the top.
Datsyuk is the best takeaway player of all time, with 365 in 230 from 08 to 11.
Datsyuks worse even strength goal differential is + 15, in a year where he only played 56 games, on average he gave a goal every 3 games while playing 18 minutes against the top line of the other team.
He has 12 ENG and 24 EN assists, which is pretty high for a guy that doesn't defend leads, don't you think ?

He played about a minute on the PK and thats fine because anybody can PK, he was mostly there to win draws, because he was one of the best int he league at it, anyway why would you want your franchise center to take shots from the likes of Weber, Souray, Zubov and Pronger when others can do this just as well ? Its not hard to defend a passing and shooting lane.

Jacques Lemaire was a damn good 200-ft C, so was Mark Messier, so was Joe Sakic...none of them was awarded Selke, why?

They weren’t the “best defensive forward” like Gainey, Jarvis, Kasper, Carbonneau, Meagher etc.

 

[Sorinth]

He was a good 200-ft C but wasn’t Selke caliber defensively strong on the puck - in fact Babcock would use Helm, Draper etc for late period / game defensive situations.

Selke is not for 2-way hockey it’s for “ the forward who best excels in the defensive aspects of the game” as defined by NHL.

As I posted previously NHL introduced the Selke to give Gainey an award or as the Soviets head coach Viktor Tikonov used to refer to him “technically the most complete player in the world”

On the other hand the best defence is having the puck in the opponents zone so possession/offence does actually matter even for defensive aspects of the game.

 

[Mrb1p]

Jacques Lemaire was a damn good 200-ft C, so was Mark Messier, so was Joe Sakic...none of them was awarded Selke, why?

They weren’t the “best defensive forward” like Gainey, Jarvis, Kasper, Carbonneau, Meagher etc.

And Datsyuk was better than all of them defensively.

 

[salbutera]

And Datsyuk was better than all of them defensively.

Not a f*ckin chance in hell...Datsyuk came nowhere close to Lemaire, Messier let alone Gainey, Kasper et al

 

[salbutera]

On the other hand the best defence is having the puck in the opponents zone so possession/offence does actually matter even for defensive aspects of the game.

Only in the era of ballerina tutu hockey..

 

[Not The One]

Danault provides zero value to the team. He does not score goals, at all, and i think he is average to good defensively. Not great.

Really?

I never tire of posting this because it's such a fascinating stat:

NHL Stats

Over the last two seasons on 5vs5 Danault was on the ice for 36 more goals for the Habs than against them, despite being used against other team's top lines. AND on a Habs team that had a minus-2 goal differential during those two seasons. The only other Cs who did better were Point, Bergeron, Bonino, Cirelli and MacKinnon and they were all on powerhouse teams. Tampa were +147, Boston were +105, Preds +22 and Colorado were +60.

Amazing how Danault is under-appreciated here.

 

[BLONG7]

Really?

I never tire of posting this because it's such a fascinating stat:

NHL Stats

Over the last two seasons on 5vs5 Danault was on the ice for 36 more goals for the Habs than against them, despite being used against other team's top lines. AND on a Habs team that had a minus-2 goal differential during those two seasons. The only other Cs who did better were Point, Bergeron, Bonino, Cirelli and MacKinnon and they were all on powerhouse teams. Tampa were +147, Boston were +105, Preds +22 and Colorado were +60.

Amazing how Danault is under-appreciated here.

He is not under appreciated, he is just not near as good as he thinks he is....the guy is a perfect 3rd line centre on a good team.

 

[Mrb1p]

Really?

I never tire of posting this because it's such a fascinating stat:

NHL Stats

Over the last two seasons on 5vs5 Danault was on the ice for 36 more goals for the Habs than against them, despite being used against other team's top lines. AND on a Habs team that had a minus-2 goal differential during those two seasons. The only other Cs who did better were Point, Bergeron, Bonino, Cirelli and MacKinnon and they were all on powerhouse teams. Tampa were +147, Boston were +105, Preds +22 and Colorado were +60.

Amazing how Danault is under-appreciated here.

Nashville is a powerhouse team ? Also does anyone claim Bonino is a selke level player?

 

[CHfan1]

Really?

I never tire of posting this because it's such a fascinating stat:

NHL Stats

Over the last two seasons on 5vs5 Danault was on the ice for 36 more goals for the Habs than against them, despite being used against other team's top lines. AND on a Habs team that had a minus-2 goal differential during those two seasons. The only other Cs who did better were Point, Bergeron, Bonino, Cirelli and MacKinnon and they were all on powerhouse teams. Tampa were +147, Boston were +105, Preds +22 and Colorado were +60.

Amazing how Danault is under-appreciated here.

And the last calendar year plus, from January 27, 2020 on he has played in 43 games, including playoffs, and been in the ice for 28 even goals for and 26 against. The previous 50 games (in the 2019-20) season he was on for 51 goals for and 33 against (even strength). His production has dipped over the last year.

All while scoring 2 goals (including one empty netter) and putting up 17 assists in that time period.

I like what Danault brings, as far as tough match-ups, defensive zone starts, face-off wins, and centre depth.

But unless his production picks up I don’t know how Montreal can justify giving him a $5 million + contract at 6 years, especially during the flat cap world we are in. Since the pandemic hit North America only two forwards have got contracts that were 6 years plus., and they were both from Bergevin. Teams just aren’t giving those out right now.

 

[Ozmodiar]

And the last calendar year plus, from January 27, 2020 on he has played in 43 games, including playoffs, and been in the ice for 28 even goals for and 26 against. The previous 50 games (in the 2019-20) season he was on for 51 goals for and 33 against (even strength). His production has dipped over the last year.

All while scoring 2 goals (including one empty netter) and putting up 17 assists in that time period.

I like what Danault brings, as far as tough match-ups, defensive zone starts, face-off wins, and centre depth.

But unless his production picks up I don’t know how Montreal can justify giving him a $5 million + contract at 6 years, especially during the flat cap world we are in. Since the pandemic hit North America only two forwards have got contracts that were 6 years plus., and they were both from Bergevin. Teams just aren’t giving those out right now.

Why January 27? Why pick that date?

 

[CHfan1]

Why January 27? Why pick that date?

It seemed that is when his production started to dip. But it doesn’t matter we could go by the last calendar year, from when KK got sent to the AHL, or from the start of the playoffs, it all shows the same thing. His production has dipped. In a flat cap world it doesn’t justify a 6 year contract at $5 million +, imo.

 

[Essenege]

Danault's line is shit this year. Awful. And I predicted it would be.

Another one conflating points production with level of play.

NHL Lines Advanced Stats

Edit: they are 3rd in xGF% as a line, amongst lines that played > 60 minutes of 5v5.

Before you ask, the xGF stat on that site is adjusted for the players career S%, shot angle and change of angle before shot.

They also have a postive 5v5 goal differential, even with their reduced production. They don’t allow a lot of goals, that tends to happen when you out chance your opponent 70-30%.

I’m not sure what people see. They dominate possession at a level where it’s really apparent to the observer’s eye. Their S% will revert to normal and they will continue out producing the opponents top line, like they did in the last 2 years.

 

[Not The One]

Why January 27? Why pick that date?

Because Danault had 6 points (including two goals) in the 6 previous games and that doesn't fit the narrative.

 

[CHfan1]

Because Danault had 6 points (including two goals) in the 6 previous games and that doesn't fit the narrative.

I guess we’ll see in the off-season if he gets that long-term contract. Maybe I’m wrong and he does.

I’m just happy to see Bergevin waiting to the off-season and can evaluate his contract based more on how he does this season, as well as the other centres on this team. I really hope he starts producing more again and shows he’s worth it and will be worth it for the length of his new contract.

 

[canucklover123]

Danault provides zero value to the team. He does not score goals, at all, and i think he is average to good defensively. Not great.

Damn imaging be a poster from 2009 on and losing any credibility with such statement. You hate to see it.

 

[cactusjack]

I’m lucky with tv isn’t broken yet. I was about to throw the remote after Toronto first goal.

Danault is about to be healty scratch level. His defense is below average, his implimation level average and blackout offensively. No surprise Tatar and Gallagher are struggling at the moment.

I wouldnt be surprise if Mete score his first before him. Good thing is, if he signs as a 3C it’ll be around 3,5-4,25M and not 5M+