Phillip Broberg

[bucks_oil]

I mean sure if you cherry picked stats. That obviously wasn’t enough. Fact is they scored 86 goals in 25 games. Overall that’s enough. Your goalies only gave up 61 goals.

Edit: if I had seen that statline I would have guessed you won.

Well unfortunately that's not how it works. You don't get to choose how the goals are distributed.

Those of us who followed the team closely know that when McDavid and Draisaitl were shut down, the secondary scoring wasn't enough (except for a few nights when Henrique, Janmark and Brown made major contributions).

Goaltending was shaky too, but there weren't any cheap/better options out there right now. Would I rather have Ullmark this year at $5M? Sure, but would I be able to pay him $8.5M next year? No.

Ultimately, the Oilers had opportunities to bring in secondary scoring on the cheap: Henrique $3M, Skinner $3M and Arvidsson $4M. Those were/are value contracts and therefore worth signing.

You can win with value contracts.

You also need young cheap talent. Oilers were banking on bringing back both Holloway and Broberg on the cheap. Obviously their RFA negotiating tactics backfired.

But my point is that once Holloway and more importantly Broberg were priced at $7M, they no longer represent "value contracts" for the Oilers. At that point it can still be a great move for a rebuild/reloading team like St. Louis and a bad move for a cap-constrained "win now" team.

 

[Artemi Panarin]

What a player

 

[bucks_oil]

I thought the oilers offered 1.1-1.2 and Broberg’s ask was 1.8

I heard that they'd likely settle closer to $1.8M but Oilers were playing it slow and prioritizing Draisaitl (because they wanted a 2 year bridge deal, so Draisaitl mattered).

Their blunder was moving too slow and allowing the St. L opportunity to present itself.

I personally think the fact both Broberg and Holloway have the same agent gives additional insight here... Broberg has never felt that he was given a real opportunity in Edmonton. He's partly right. And so the fact that Broberg got like a 2.5X inflated contract (vs your typical D his age) and Holloway only got a 1.5X inflated contract... and yet the two contracts taken together mean's Oilers couldn't match both... well to me it says Broberg had one foot out the door all along and Holloway was just looking for some leverage and expected to stay.

Anyway, it was very well played by St. Louis - no question there. Broberg also comes out a big winner... Holloway? Not so sure. He makes an extra $800K this year and next, but misses out on an opportunity to play a big role with the team he grew up cheering for... and would have a big opportunity for a huge deal down the road as a winger to Draisaitl (or at worst Henrique).

 

[StreetHawk]

I personally think the fact both Broberg and Holloway have the same agent gives additional insight here... Broberg has never felt that he was given a real opportunity in Edmonton. He's partly right. And so the fact that Broberg got like a 2.5X inflated contract (vs your typical D his age) and Holloway only got a 1.5X inflated contract... and yet the two contracts taken together mean's Oilers couldn't match both... well to me it says Broberg had one foot out the door all along and Holloway was just looking for some leverage and expected to stay.

Anyway, it was very well played by St. Louis - no question there. Broberg also comes out a big winner... Holloway? Not so sure. He makes an extra $800K this year and next, but misses out on an opportunity to play a big role with the team he grew up cheering for... and would have a big opportunity for a huge deal down the road as a winger to Draisaitl (or at worst Henrique).

For Broberg playing the left side was also a big deal. He wouldn't have done that in Edm, so if that hinders his development into what he could be, then that decreases his value on the next deal.

As for Holloway, he's had a couple of injuries so far in his career. So, totally get having guaranteed money now as you just never know.

NHL teams, typically have tried to squeeze non top end RFAs coming off ELC. Little leverage for them. Only can rely on an OS, which is very rare. But, with the comp levels increasing, $4.5 mill is a 2nd round comp pick. So, these are now the ones to target vs going up to anything really high end that costs 2 firsts or more. Could see a few more of these 2nd or 1st & 3rd type OS if a team does end up leaving themselves very little cap room when they finally get around to negotiating with their RFA.

 

[bucks_oil]

For Broberg playing the left side was also a big deal. He wouldn't have done that in Edm, so if that hinders his development into what he could be, then that decreases his value on the next deal.

As for Holloway, he's had a couple of injuries so far in his career. So, totally get having guaranteed money now as you just never know.

NHL teams, typically have tried to squeeze non top end RFAs coming off ELC. Little leverage for them. Only can rely on an OS, which is very rare. But, with the comp levels increasing, $4.5 mill is a 2nd round comp pick. So, these are now the ones to target vs going up to anything really high end that costs 2 firsts or more. Could see a few more of these 2nd or 1st & 3rd type OS if a team does end up leaving themselves very little cap room when they finally get around to negotiating with their RFA.

I completely agree...

and I honestly think the idea of building a contender by exploiting a collection of talent on RFA/ELC may become a thing of the past. Most contenders (like Edmonton and many others like them) already have their uber Elite talent locked up... that next wave of talent are likely slightly less credentialed, fighting for playing time, etc... and so yeah, those types falling under that $4.5M threshold, which is still a HUGE number for a contender to try and squeeze in...

We're going to see those players walking more often.

I think about the modern day Drury and Hejduk's of the world... would they have remained Avs in the current cap environment? I wonder.

 

[StreetHawk]

I completely agree...

and I honestly think the idea of building a contender by exploiting a collection of talent on RFA/ELC may become a thing of the past. Most contenders (like Edmonton and many others like them) already have their uber Elite talent locked up... that next wave of talent are likely slightly less credentialed, fighting for playing time, etc... and so yeah, those types falling under that $4.5M threshold, which is still a HUGE number for a contender to try and squeeze in...

We're going to see those players walking more often.

I think about the modern day Drury and Hejduk's of the world... would they have remained Avs in the current cap environment? I wonder.

KK for CAR and Broberg both went for well over double what they were negotiating with their original clubs. KK, likely in the low to mid $2's and got $6.1 mill for 1 year and guaranteed at worst $5 mill on team taken arbitration or he'd be a UFA. Broberg, just under $2 mill and gets $4.5 mill.

That's the price of an OS, to go double or more of what the player and other team are talking (for the Player's number) to have a shot in this comp range. Montreal didn't go double on Aho, as that's way too high. But, these $2 mill players to double is doable.

See if teams change their approach. Edm got UFA aged players early in July and pushed their RFAs to later. Do, teams then opt to try to take care of their RFAs earlier and risk losing out on UFAs to not get squeezed? That's what teams have to decide moving forward. A UFA is an add, whereas RFA keeps you the same (with internal improvement from that RFA). Which is why teams go and add ufas early.

 

[bucks_oil]

KK for CAR and Broberg both went for well over double what they were negotiating with their original clubs. KK, likely in the low to mid $2's and got $6.1 mill for 1 year and guaranteed at worst $5 mill on team taken arbitration or he'd be a UFA. Broberg, just under $2 mill and gets $4.5 mill.

That's the price of an OS, to go double or more of what the player and other team are talking (for the Player's number) to have a shot in this comp range. Montreal didn't go double on Aho, as that's way too high. But, these $2 mill players to double is doable.

See if teams change their approach. Edm got UFA aged players early in July and pushed their RFAs to later. Do, teams then opt to try to take care of their RFAs earlier and risk losing out on UFAs to not get squeezed? That's what teams have to decide moving forward. A UFA is an add, whereas RFA keeps you the same (with internal improvement from that RFA). Which is why teams go and add ufas early.

Well they also go for UFA's earlier because that's when the highly competitive UFA market opens up.

In Edmonton's case they've always used available cap space as a negotiating tactic... hence the reason why they leave "only just enough" to sign the RFA. It worked last year with McLeod and failed miserably this year with Broberg.

Teams of course will try to avoid that mistake going forward, but that's all the more reason for RFA's to really test the market. It will be interesting to see if the dynamics for these shorter "show me" bridge deals change. It used to be $1.5M or $4M x 4 or $6-8M x 8 years and nothing in between.

I'm guessing a 2 x $4M deal will become a lot more commonplace.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I heard that they'd likely settle closer to $1.8M but Oilers were playing it slow and prioritizing Draisaitl (because they wanted a 2 year bridge deal, so Draisaitl mattered).

Their blunder was moving too slow and allowing the St. L opportunity to present itself.

I personally think the fact both Broberg and Holloway have the same agent gives additional insight here... Broberg has never felt that he was given a real opportunity in Edmonton. He's partly right. And so the fact that Broberg got like a 2.5X inflated contract (vs your typical D his age) and Holloway only got a 1.5X inflated contract... and yet the two contracts taken together mean's Oilers couldn't match both... well to me it says Broberg had one foot out the door all along and Holloway was just looking for some leverage and expected to stay.

Anyway, it was very well played by St. Louis - no question there. Broberg also comes out a big winner... Holloway? Not so sure. He makes an extra $800K this year and next, but misses out on an opportunity to play a big role with the team he grew up cheering for... and would have a big opportunity for a huge deal down the road as a winger to Draisaitl (or at worst Henrique).

Except they don’t have the same agent. Ferris, Broberg’s agent, worked with Robson, Holloway’s agent, during the offer sheets but they are in fact two separate people.

Not sure where people think Holloway wanted to stay or that he made a bad move. He’s also getting a prime opportunity in STL on our 3rd line and seems to be fitting in well.

 

[MessierII]

I'm pretty sure Broberg asked for a trade last year. Despite him being injected into the lineup during the 2nd round of the playoffs and his sparkling play in the 10 games or so that he played bolstered the Oilers defense and he single handedly prevented them from imploding in the 2nd round vs Vancouver.

Oilers mishandled him from the start. If they put him into the lineup 2 years ago, then he likely never would have asked for a trade. But the Oilers chose to play studs like Ceci Deshairnais and Kulak over him.

Broberg didn’t play in the Vancouver series. He came in game 4 vs Dallas.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

You should also see he’s playing PK and PP and solid as a rock. He’s a stud.

He's playing 36 seconds a night on the PK (last among STL defensemen), and 1:10 on the powerplay (last among all players who are on the PP).

He's been playing great, but no need to sugar coat things.

 

[BlueAzN]

Turns out he was more important to the Oilers than Connor McDonald

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Broberg didn’t play in the Vancouver series. He came in game 4 vs Dallas.

Yes true. Either way Broberg had a huge impact as soon as he was injected into the lineup.

 

[voxel]

So.... whose better Broberg or Zegras? lol

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

So.... whose better Broberg or Zegras? lol

Broberg...Ken Holland is a genius now

 

[Memento]

Anyway, it was very well played by St. Louis - no question there. Broberg also comes out a big winner... Holloway? Not so sure. He makes an extra $800K this year and next, but misses out on an opportunity to play a big role with the team he grew up cheering for... and would have a big opportunity for a huge deal down the road as a winger to Draisaitl (or at worst Henrique).

On the bolded, Holloway grew up in Alberta, but the Calgary area. He grew up a Flames fan, not an Oilers fan.

 

[rahad]

The oilers could use a guy like him

Don't worry! the Oilers are going to win the stanley cup!

 

[SirPaste]

On the bolded, Holloway grew up in Alberta, but the Calgary area. He grew up a Flames fan, not an Oilers fan.

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

 

[Memento]

Let's not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

I prefer to deal in facts. I get enough insane conspiracy theories from my estranged dad.

 

[Reality Czech]

I didn't say posting about it is pointless. If people want to post thoughts about Broberg as a player, that's great.

Unlike Viktor Arvidsson, this thread is not pointless.

I heard that they'd likely settle closer to $1.8M but Oilers were playing it slow and prioritizing Draisaitl (because they wanted a 2 year bridge deal, so Draisaitl mattered).

Their blunder was moving too slow and allowing the St. L opportunity to present itself.

I personally think the fact both Broberg and Holloway have the same agent gives additional insight here... Broberg has never felt that he was given a real opportunity in Edmonton. He's partly right. And so the fact that Broberg got like a 2.5X inflated contract (vs your typical D his age) and Holloway only got a 1.5X inflated contract... and yet the two contracts taken together mean's Oilers couldn't match both... well to me it says Broberg had one foot out the door all along and Holloway was just looking for some leverage and expected to stay.

Anyway, it was very well played by St. Louis - no question there. Broberg also comes out a big winner... Holloway? Not so sure. He makes an extra $800K this year and next, but misses out on an opportunity to play a big role with the team he grew up cheering for... and would have a big opportunity for a huge deal down the road as a winger to Draisaitl (or at worst Henrique).

Holloway himself said on Hockey Sense with Andy Strickland that he was puzzled the Oilers didn't even offer him a deal last summer. Said that his side wasn't even asking for that much. So I'm not sure what opportunity he missed when he wasn't even offered a contract. I get the whole playing for a championship argument, but either guy could have just as easily been shipped out at the deadline for other players. I think it's smart business to take the deal in front of you rather than holding out hope for what "might" happen in the future. Sounds like Holloway just wanted to get a deal done and the Oilers were dragging their feet for whatever reason.

 

[The don godfather]

Oilers GM should be fired on spot. St Louis Gm swindled him away.

 

[Mogo]

Absolute steal by Blues

 

[Godfather]

He's playing 36 seconds a night on the PK (last among STL defensemen), and 1:10 on the powerplay (last among all players who are on the PP).

He's been playing great, but no need to sugar coat things.

This is misinformation. You can easily see his TOI from their last game on 10/19, and see he is not last from those participating in both.

 

[Artemi Panarin]

Oilers GM should be fired on spot. St Louis Gm swindled him away.