Rumor: Philadelphia wanted a 1st rounder, or specific prospect to take Joseph from Ottawa

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BondraTime

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Nov 20, 2005
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picks/prospects to dump bad contracts... again
Yeah, Giroux was clearly a terrible piece to have, scoring 80 points. Losing those 2nd/3rd round picks for Matt Murray and Zaitsev is a travesty (which also had nothing to do with Giroux...).

They lose something to move Jospeh? That's got nothing to do with Grioux's signing, that's got to do with Joseph's signing.

Move Brannstrom for a mid round pick? Also gets them the space they need this year.

Find some other way to clear ~1.5 million cap? Definitely possible
 

Gil Gunderson

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May 2, 2007
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picks/prospects to dump bad contracts... again
Which picks and prospects? The most I see us losing to dump Joseph is like a 2nd rounder, which sucks but isn't the end of the world. If push comes to shove, we'll probably move Kubalik or something, which again isn't ideal but is far from the end of the world.
 

TkachukNorris79

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Jan 27, 2018
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You are risking losing other players when you sign those contracts.

If you think you are close to contending, Giroux was a good signing, if you think you are a few years out, it's probably better to keep your picks/prospects and younger players.
The on-ice value that Giroux and Tarasenko bring is worth their contracts ($11.5M total) as both are still Top 6 guys who can produce 60+ points.

However the value they bring off the ice, to the young core, will still help them in 5 years when both guys are retired.

Where the sens messed up is with the dead cap space on the books for this year. Over $5M of dead cap space between Murray, Del Zotto, Ryan and White.

They're only spending $7M in nets and $22M on defence.

Spending $41M on the Top 6 isn't horrible, especially with their skill, as $12M should be enough to fill out a bottom 6. but the $5M of dead space really hurts.
 

inthewings

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Jul 26, 2005
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I’m as happy to see Ottawa jammed up as the next guy but how is this system functioning when a rebuilding team on the up and up is already cap strapped? This hard cap is hurting everyone.
It's mostly a series of unforced errors that have them here. They have 5M in dead cap, another 5.5M for Joseph and Kubalik, and 6.75M for their unproven tandem of Forsberg and Korpisalo.

I should hope Stutzle wasn't being honest about leaving cash on the table so Dorion could set it on fire.
 
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notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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Lol Stuzle shoulda took less

Clearly he only kind of wants to win.

The on-ice value that Giroux and Tarasenko bring is worth their contracts ($11.5M total) as both are still Top 6 guys who can produce 60+ points.

However the value they bring off the ice, to the young core, will still help them in 5 years when both guys are retired.

Where the sens messed up is with the dead cap space on the books for this year. Over $5M of dead cap space between Murray, Del Zotto, Ryan and White.

They're only spending $7M in nets and $22M on defence.

Spending $41M on the Top 6 isn't horrible, especially with their skill, as $12M should be enough to fill out a bottom 6. but the $5M of dead space really hurts.

Most of that is fine, but some is a luxury and some are just bad signings.

I think you may have just signed a $4 million dollar backup.

Tarasenko is not needed on a 1 year deal, I don't think Ottawa are contenders yet, and really how much is he adding to the mentorship of the young players?

The dead space is definitely the issue, but that is the faultof the GM who is now going to have to send picks/prospects to deal with more bad signings.
 
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Do Make Say Think

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Jun 26, 2007
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It's mostly a series of unforced errors that have them here. They have 5M in dead cap, another 5.5M for Joseph and Kubalik, and 6.75M for their unproven tandem of Forsberg and Korpisalo.

I should hope Stutzle wasn't being honest about leaving cash on the table so Dorion could set it on fire.
I think the players know how awful Dorion is. Timmy was just making sure it was public: he basically said he was ok with leaving a bit of money on the table to help the team but that it was up to the GM to not f*** it up.

Dorion is a master at f***ing up, this is well known.
 

UglyPuckling

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May 14, 2021
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Waiving Joseph doesn't clear enough space to sign Pinto. Friedman said market was around $2.5M for Pinto.

And there's only like 6 teams that will have the cap space to take on Joseph, Kubalik, or Brannstrom. And most of those teams already have their lineups basically set.

It will be interesting to see how Dorion handles this cap situation in a season where his job is possibly on the line and the Sens will be pushing hard to slip into the playoffs.
Not if he's signs a 1 year deal as a 10.2.c. I don't think people know what a 10.2.c. is. $2.5 m would be an overpay for a 1 year 10.2.c. if the Senators go that route. Pinto's only options in this case would be to take the offer or sit out. Not the most desired outcome, but a possibility nonetheless.

I think the Chicken Little posters with their "sky is falling schemes" will be more prevalent in the thread. Seems to be popular although frequently mindless.
 
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HSF

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Sep 3, 2008
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I’m as happy to see Ottawa jammed up as the next guy but how is this system functioning when a rebuilding team on the up and up is already cap strapped? This hard cap is hurting everyone.
Ottawa has like 5mill in dead cap
 

bwhsocal

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May 4, 2023
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I’m as happy to see Ottawa jammed up as the next guy but how is this system functioning when a rebuilding team on the up and up is already cap strapped? This hard cap is hurting everyone.
i call BS - GM knew where they were on the cap, knew Pinto needed a deal, went out and sign taresenko for 5m, didnt do anything at buyout time. this isnt a case hard cap hurting ott its the GM not planning and having now to make a tough decision and lose a solid depth piece or two
 

TGWL

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Burying Joseph frees up about $2.033M, which may be enough for Pinto based on Morgan Frost's deal (very comparable) but maybe he wants a bit more.

I think they move Joseph to Philly but will be a prospect and another lesser pick over one of the 1sts.

If it's non-hockey related, you get cap relief. If it's a hockey reason, the full cap hit still applies.

Either way, I would have a hard time believing Batherson is involved in it but I guess we'll have to wait (another year???) and see.
The buyout period hasn't started. It's too late for that.
 

ToDavid

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Dec 13, 2018
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Don't the Sens already have 900K or close to it? so if they waive Joseph and Bury 1.2 of his salary that takes them to 2.1, maybe 2.2.

That gets them close



But a 1st rounder is still to much

Cap friendly has them at about $120k with a 20 man roster. Norris gives them another forward when he’s back so technically they could waive a depth guy and get another ~$800k. But I don’t recall if he’s expected to be ready for the start of the season.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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Only really hurts awful GMs like Dubas or Dorion.

At the end of the day, the NHL is just an entertainment product competing for viewership and it isn’t doing well.

The idea any organization should be “punished” even for “mismanagement” makes no sense since you’re just hurting the paying audience in Ottawa in this case.

Like bravo, you’ve created anxiety and uncertainty for a fanbase that was otherwise just looking forward to some good times after years in the wilderness and ownership uncertainty. Way to sell hockey.
 

notbias

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Feb 16, 2017
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At the end of the day, the NHL is just an entertainment product competing for viewership and it isn’t doing well.

The idea any organization should be “punished” even for “mismanagement” makes no sense since you’re just hurting the paying audience in Ottawa in this case.

Like bravo, you’ve created anxiety and uncertainty for a fanbase that was otherwise just looking forward to some good times after years in the wilderness and ownership uncertainty. Way to sell hockey.

have a soft cap then so the more important paying audience is rewarded, not Ottawa.
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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It's mostly a series of unforced errors that have them here. They have 5M in dead cap, another 5.5M for Joseph and Kubalik, and 6.75M for their unproven tandem of Forsberg and Korpisalo.

I should hope Stutzle wasn't being honest about leaving cash on the table so Dorion could set it on fire.

I see the problem both ways. For a young rebuilding team on the way up they’ve done a lot of great things and locked in some key people at reasonable gambles… Sens fans have been very proud of that…

On the other hand, how short is the Bettman cap runway that you can’t even rebuild a team, lock up a promising core without getting into cap trouble before you’ve even seen a playoff game.
 

TkachukNorris79

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Jan 27, 2018
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is Stutzle #2 or #3 for best contract?

Sanderson was #1 based on the thread for his signing.
This is pretty ridiculous... Please find me where someone said Sanderson is going to be the best contract in that thread... Sens fans are defending the deal in that it isn't an overpay, while everyone else thinks it is.

Stutzle is on a completely different level and everyone knows that. Him along with J. Hughes are very likely going to be the two best contracts in the league over the next 7-8 years and it doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.
The buyout period hasn't started. It's too late for that.
What do you mean buyout? Waiving a player and burying them is different than a buyout, my friend!
 
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TGWL

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At the end of the day, the NHL is just an entertainment product competing for viewership and it isn’t doing well.

The idea any organization should be “punished” even for “mismanagement” makes no sense since you’re just hurting the paying audience in Ottawa in this case.

Like bravo, you’ve created anxiety and uncertainty for a fanbase that was otherwise just looking forward to some good times after years in the wilderness and ownership uncertainty. Way to sell hockey.
So what would you have them do, give up a first round pick for being over the cap after signing Pinto? In which case, what's the difference here. If you don't punish the team at all, what's the point of having the cap? There's way too many young players playing their hands on where they want to go these days. The big organization will have a field day shelling out money. Whether it works out or not for them in another story, but do we really want to see the same teams just cash their way to whatever players they want?
 

absolute garbage

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Jan 22, 2006
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9.3M is a lot of money even if spread over 3 years.

Would be surprised if they can get out of that without using a 1st round pick. Maybe they can do something like Joseph, 1st + 4th and get a 2nd rounder back. That could make losing a 1st less painful.
 

Gregor Samsa

Registered User
Sep 5, 2020
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At the end of the day, the NHL is just an entertainment product competing for viewership and it isn’t doing well.

The idea any organization should be “punished” even for “mismanagement” makes no sense since you’re just hurting the paying audience in Ottawa in this case.

Like bravo, you’ve created anxiety and uncertainty for a fanbase that was otherwise just looking forward to some good times after years in the wilderness and ownership uncertainty. Way to sell hockey.
Every team should be allowed one gofundme type account where the fanbase can raise money for 1 contract slot
 

Detroit Knights

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Feb 29, 2012
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I think Tarasenko was a good signing by them, but they should of probably figured out their cap situation before they signed him.
Oh but the Sens fans at first were thinking they were going to be able to sign DBC for 7x7+ easy though :sarcasm:

Probably would have been best if they just didn't add Kubalik in that trade because his cap hit is hurting a bit at this point. Very interested to see how this works out because Pinto is obviously someone they should keep and Pinto also shouldn't just take a discount for a year just to take a discount.
 
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