Value of: Philadelphia LHD (Provorov & Sanheim with extension)

[Ironmanrulez]

You gotta understand that the moment we lost Lindholm and Manson, we lost any serious size or physical capabilities on the back end.

If Sanheim accidentally grazed past a forward one time, he would already be leading our blueline in physicality.

no

Maybe you speak about Risto. But Sanheim will never ever be the most physical dman on any nhl team. And this is perfectly fine, cause he has all the others skill you can wish for!

 

[Ironmanrulez]

It seems more likely Provorov will be traded than Sanheim atm. If he is, it will be to clear out cap space,likely for a big name forward acquisition.

So really,itd be one of 3 things:

1. Provy traded for a package (1st + higher end prospect + another asset)...with most of his cap hit getting cleared so they can sign a big name FA.

2. Provy gets traded in a 1 for 1 for a top line forward around similar cap hit

3. Provy is the center piece in a mega deal for a superstar forward that hits the market.

My guess is itll be the 2nd one. Idk who the forward version of Provy is out there. Nylander comes to mind (just as a realistic 1 for 1 value wise).

and every option CuCkY will f*** up!

 

[Starat327]

What is this Sanheim > Provorov talk I'm reading in here? Is that really true?

Yes, and it's not even a controversial take. Provorov has been hot garbage for at least two years. I'm sure he'll look better on a new team, but it ain't getting any better here or easier for him to show it.

Sanheim is quite easily the more superior defensemen in just about every facet of the game.

 

[Funk21]

Unfortunately yes.

In an attempt to be more useful: for quite some time, the vibe the organization gave off was that they preferred Provorov to Sanheim. Recently, that appears to have changed, with the Sanheim/Ristolainen pairing getting a good amount of public praise, so my expectation would be that unless Sanheim refuses to sign a long term deal with the team, Provorov is the more likely to be traded. I do not see both being moved as all that likely.

I honestly don’t understand what Philly is doing. I would be happy to have Provorov as I think he is a beast. Happy to trade Muzzin and our first to acquire. That way you have a vet replacement to play on the second pairing. Likely costs another prospect not named Knies, Hirvonen or Neimela,

 

[TheKingPin]

Sanheim is the better player. He has looked great with an expanded role finally. I’d say he gets at least 13 goals on a good team if used right.

Provy has looked a lot better after the deadline. He is an emotional player and I think it may of effected him. He is still a good player, but max a #2. I think Sanheim could be a low end #1.

 

[Joel Ward]

Can Flyers fans explain the interest in moving Provorov? Freshly 25 and playing huge minutes while looking like the best skater on the ice the majority of the time.

 

[JRichard]

Can Flyers fans explain the interest in moving Provorov? Freshly 25 and playing huge minutes while looking like the best skater on the ice the majority of the time.

Seemed unhappy, play has fallen off and ld is deepest position with Sanheim and York.
I for one believe playing with Braun instead of Ellis is a big part of it and that he plays too many minutes. Flyers fans not shopping him and other fans only offer future packages for him. Would need to offer young forward already on roster + picks or prospect to get him.

 

[ponder719]

I honestly don’t understand what Philly is doing.

Neither do we.

 

[PJJJP]

I know there were rumors that the blues have Interest in either of them. What would a package from stl look like?

 

[biturbo19]

Sanheim is the better player. He has looked great with an expanded role finally. I’d say he gets at least 13 goals on a good team if used right.

Provy has looked a lot better after the deadline. He is an emotional player and I think it may of effected him. He is still a good player, but max a #2. I think Sanheim could be a low end #1.

I'm so confounded by Flyers fans insisting that Provorov's "ceiling" is a "#2D Max". Like, he's played like a bona fide #1D previously. With a semi-decent partner like Niskanen. He has that in his wheelhouse. I don't think that was a mirage?

From the outside...to me, Sanheim is the one who is probably always going to be more productive, but also more limited to a #2D sort of role. Even with the strides he's made defensively...that doesn't seem like it's ever going to be a strong suit to the point where he's the guy a Stanley Cup caliber team wants to match up power on power against the other team's best line with the game on the line.

 

[Chainshot]

From an outsiders view - why in the world would Philly even think about moving Sanheim? I get rooting against the Flyers, they make a great villain for plenty of teams' fanbases, but come on, Fletcher can't be looking at moving Sanheim right?

As for Provorov, I can see him having interest and another team thinking they can get him back to previous levels. His play has not been where it once was.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

From an outsiders view - why in the world would Philly even think about moving Sanheim? I get rooting against the Flyers, they make a great villain for plenty of teams' fanbases, but come on, Fletcher can't be looking at moving Sanheim right?

As for Provorov, I can see him having interest and another team thinking they can get him back to previous levels. His play has not been where it once was.

Well he's a pending UFA and the Flyers aren't in great shape. Unless they're sure internally that he plans to re-sign in Philly, I've got to believe they're at least having a conversation about his trade value.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

From an outsiders view - why in the world would Philly even think about moving Sanheim? I get rooting against the Flyers, they make a great villain for plenty of teams' fanbases, but come on, Fletcher can't be looking at moving Sanheim right?

As for Provorov, I can see him having interest and another team thinking they can get him back to previous levels. His play has not been where it once was.

I wouldn't move either. Then again, I wouldn't have signed Hayes. Or traded for Ristolainen. Or brought in Yandle. Or traded Ghost away with a 2nd for nothing. Or re-signed Ristolainen.

So do I think Fletcher would trade away Sanheim, or Provorov? Probably...cause he's a terrible GM.

 

[Dooble08]

I'm so confounded by Flyers fans insisting that Provorov's "ceiling" is a "#2D Max". Like, he's played like a bona fide #1D previously. With a semi-decent partner like Niskanen. He has that in his wheelhouse. I don't think that was a mirage?

From the outside...to me, Sanheim is the one who is probably always going to be more productive, but also more limited to a #2D sort of role. Even with the strides he's made defensively...that doesn't seem like it's ever going to be a strong suit to the point where he's the guy a Stanley Cup caliber team wants to match up power on power against the other team's best line with the game on the line.

Provorov struggles when he is forced to be "the guy" on the top pairing. He needs a player to compliment his play (ghost in his 65 point season, nisky, was supposed to be ellis this season).

I agree with your comments on Sanheim though. But the Flyers can mold Cam York into the top pairing defensemen, Sanheim becomes (currently is) a well above average 2nd defensemen. That's what makes Provorov the more expendable of the two. That.....and the fact that he can bring in a larger haul for the Flyers.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I'm terrified to imagine what Fletcher will get back for these two. We're f***ing embarrassing.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Id move Boeser or Garland for Provorov.

Id also move Miller for Provorov but Philly would have to add big time.

Miller would be a perfect Philly player though. He plays the game with a snarl and tenacity but has world class skill as well.

 

[Dooble08]

Id move Boeser or Garland for Provorov.

Id also move Miller for Provorov but Philly would have to add big time.

Miller would be a perfect Philly player though. He plays the game with a snarl and tenacity but has world class skill as well.

Miller only has 1 year left on his contract. I would not move Provorov straight up for 1 year of Miller. If he's extended, there could be discussions.

Boeser and Garland are not really needs. Flyers are looking for RHD and Centers.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Miller only has 1 year left on his contract. I would not move Provorov straight up for 1 year of Miller. If he's extended, there could be discussions.

Boeser and Garland are not really needs. Flyers are looking for RHD and Centers.

Canucks would be open to allow a trading team to negotiate an extension with Miller before finalizing a trade.

Of course that would then bring the cost up.

What would be your offer be for 1 year of Miller at 5mil plus long term extension contract.

 

[Curufinwe]

Can Flyers fans explain the interest in moving Provorov? Freshly 25 and playing huge minutes while looking like the best skater on the ice the majority of the time.

That's so far off being accurate I don't know where to begin.

 

[captainpaxil]

Miller and sanheim are in similar contract situations. I could see a hockey trade there.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

But the Flyers can mold Cam York into the top pairing defensemen

The Flyers? Mold a defenceman into a top pairing? With this management?

Not friggin' likely.

 

[Dooble08]

Canucks would be open to allow a trading team to negotiate an extension with Miller before finalizing a trade.

Of course that would then bring the cost up.

What would be your offer be for 1 year of Miller at 5mil plus long term extension contract.

I agree that Miller with an extension would cost more than Provorov. I'm not sure what the + would be though so I won't make an offer there.

I had more or less been thinking about Provorov for a futures package, but I guess Miller is more of the try to get back to the playoffs next year type of move.

 

[biturbo19]

Miller only has 1 year left on his contract. I would not move Provorov straight up for 1 year of Miller. If he's extended, there could be discussions.

Boeser and Garland are not really needs. Flyers are looking for RHD and Centers.

I mean, the idea of JT Miller being "extended" just before being traded is completely goofy. "Sign and Trade" stuff just really doesn't happen in the NHL.

That said, i'm sure that in any sort of deal where the Canucks are looking at moving Miller, they'd be more than willing to accommodate those sort of conversations between Miller and his agent and the interested party. It's just basic common sense, to maximize the value for what you can get for him. He's so much more valuable to a team that has that "agreement in principle" already "wink wink, nudge nudge" in place before they trade for him. Miller is also practically from Pennsylvania, so i can't imagine it would be any kind of issue to get him signed to a fair market deal in Philly, maybe even less. Bringing him right back closer to home.

If he's re-signed by Vancouver directly though, it almost certainly comes with some form of NMC or at least a NTC of some form. Whatever contract he signs, with whoever he signs it...is going to have that sort of protection. As with any top-tier UFA.

 

[biturbo19]

Provorov struggles when he is forced to be "the guy" on the top pairing. He needs a player to compliment his play (ghost in his 65 point season, nisky, was supposed to be ellis this season).

I agree with your comments on Sanheim though. But the Flyers can mold Cam York into the top pairing defensemen, Sanheim becomes (currently is) a well above average 2nd defensemen. That's what makes Provorov the more expendable of the two. That.....and the fact that he can bring in a larger haul for the Flyers.

That's fair. It's just a bit hard to gauge, because the drop-off from decent players like Niskanen where i thought he played his best hockey...to what he's been dealt when it's not Niskanen or Ghost at his peak, is so stark, it's hard to know how much is on Provorov, and how much is just trying to play with absolutely garbage partners.

Personally, i put stock in how darn good he looked with just a decent, relatively competent partner in a nearly retired Niskanen, or how well he allowed Ghost to play when they were together.


But anyway...from a negotiating standpoint, obviously a terrible hopeless player. I'll give you $3.50 for him. No backsies.

 

[Starat327]

Provorov Looks like "a beast" when he has someone on his pair to carry him - Ghost, Niskanen, and Sanheim (when Sanheim was playing his offside, mind you). When he has a sub-par player on his line, he tries to do too much instead of using his teammates, and fails spectacularly.

He isn't bad per se, but hes not nearly the "bona fide #1" someone alluded to -- mostly because hes never been the #1 on the pairing in any of his good seasons hes had. His offensive instincts are garbage, and unless hes had one recently ( i gave up on watching games), he hasnt had a 5v5 Primary assist in like 18 months.

His vision is pretty limited,, and doesn't have a shred of offensive creativity. Decent first pass when he isnt trying to overdo it, and generally, decent defensive instincts. He needs to be the passenger on a pair to be a #2, or hes probably a really good #3.