Confirmed with Link: [PHI/WPG] Kevin Hayes UFA rights for a 2019 5th

[Appleyard]

So slight dip in points but better over all game.

I mean, if he signs I guess they probably play on the same line.

Also in Toronto JvR was "fine" defensively.

 

[sa cyred]

I know some on here wanted to stay put and place no resources into the team because of future contracts and the youngins, but that wasn't going to happen, no matter who the GM was (well I guess other than Hexy)

 

[kudymen]

Why would we be moving one of the best wingers in Voráček to accomodate cap situation created by signing a Hayes..??

 

[dingbathero]

Giroux - Coots - Konecny
JVR - Hayes - Voracek
Lindblom - Patrick - (Frost/Hartman/FA = Nyquist or Zucc /??)
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

This is much better than this past year looking at it.

Would love to have Nyquist on Patricks other flank - personally - esp if Frost needs more time in the AHL

 

[rinaldo]

the first of many moves to come. The pick/prospect hoarders gonna be upset.

Hayes isnt taking one penny below 6 million. that the starting point as i see it. Will people be shocked if it is 7 years at 6.5 per?

should have made the pick conditional.....

 

[Curufinwe]

You don't pay a guy like this, with such little scoring upside, to play the wing.

Again, praying one of our high paid old guys gets taken in expansion isn't exactly great planning.

Who said anything about praying? One of those guys is very likely to go. Any cap forecast that ignores that is not worth looking at.

 

[Jettany]

In two years we will need to move on from JVR, maybe move on from Voracek, replace a core player (probably a top 4 D) due to expansion, sign Carter Hart to a bridge or long-term deal and finally come to grips with the fact that Couturier is in line for probably a $7M-$8M/year raise.

Hayes making $6M+ at that point will be a major nuisance.

We will have to see. To me his usage and performance becomes the only question with Hayes. Fletcher can sign him, a goalie and all the FAs to long term deals and still be a few million under the cap. Next year they lose another 11 million from the cap number. If it goes up 3-4. They will have close to 15 million with only Patrick and Oskar to sign. Farabee, Frost, Ratcliffe etc. will have 3 years before worrying about them and can move into roles by replacing Laughton, Raffl, Hartman who at that time will make more money. Coots and Hart in line for huge raises 3 years from now will play itself out unless 2 more big ticket long term UFA signings occur.

 

[Jettany]

Why would we be moving one of the best wingers in Voráček to accomodate cap situation created by signing a Hayes..??

Why would they need to?

 

[Jettany]

Giroux - Coots - Konecny
JVR - Hayes - Voracek
Lindblom - Patrick - (Frost/Hartman/FA = Nyquist or Zucc /??)
Raffl - Laughton - Hartman

This is much better than this past year looking at it.

Would love to have Nyquist on Patricks other flank - personally - esp if Frost needs more time in the AHL

You could see Farabee there...

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't get the concern here. If younger guys push him aside he can be traded. Edit: assuming he isn't Expansioned as is.

Until then having enough centers to fill a roster is pretty important. That could end up being just as huge as having a coach who can use the roster competently.

We didn't give up anyone we already have, and a fifth round pick is of marginal value with our prospect pool. Using it to make the roster assuredly better is acceptable.

Edit 2: this is the kind of thing Hextall should have been doing but he elected to do nothing. We are at the stage where final pieces need gathering. A lot depends on Patrick developing, but then again the current team is f***ed either way if he busts and there's little to he done about it.

You can't build entirely from within. It hasn't been done yet. It takes too long. This is what FA is for

 

[Rebels57]

YES! This so much.

This signing makes us a 97-105 point team next year instead of a 95-102 point team (whatever, you fill in your own numbers). But it really hurts our chances of being a 110-point team in 2022.

And hey it could work out, we could get lucky and get to the SCF next year like St. Louis. But there's no way this is the optimal path long-term.

Lol I would love to see the mental gymnastics you performed to reach this conclusion.

 

[Appleyard]

I don't get the concern here. If younger guys push him aside he can be traded. Edit: assuming he isn't Expansioned as is.

Until then having enough centers to fill a roster is pretty important. That could end up being just as huge as having a coach who can use the roster competently.

We didn't give up anyone we already have, and a fifth round pick is of marginal value with our prospect pool. Using it to make the roster assuredly better is acceptable.

Edit 2: this is the kind of thing Hextall should have been doing but he elected to do nothing. We are at the stage where final pieces need gathering. A lot depends on Patrick developing, but then again the current team is ****ed either way if he busts and there's little to he done about it.

You can't build entirely from within. It hasn't been done yet. It takes too long. This is what FA is for

I mean, by all accounts Hextall tried last summer but struck out on Tavares and Stastny. And not too many get traded who are not expiring. But yeh, it is needed.

2C's or better who are established and get 50+ points just don't come around that often. I mean, Flyers have been trying to get one from outside the franchise since 2011-12 really.

 

[ItMe]

Have a feeling the contract is going to be ugly.... Hoping for $5M at 3 years but will probably be $6.5M at 6 years (which is atrocious). I just don't want to see another AMac situation.

 

[Appleyard]

I mean, the nice thing about it is that if he signs and nothing unexpected happens then the Flyers forward group should have no holes, and above average players for their role at worst in all 12 slots for the next three seasons at very worst.

And we probably have 3 seasons before it is statistically likely that Giroux is not 1st line level anymore, and 3-4 for Jake.

Now of course the Dmen need to keep developing and Hart play the way he did last year on a regular basis, but now the only obvious "hole" is a legit #1 Dman. And they probably have ~3 guys on the roster who have to capacity to be that and are age 22-23... just a year or so off entering their likely prime.

 

[Limeyjim]

I don't see Voracek being traded. With the new coaching staff, and perhaps working with a big guy like Hayes will help Jake.
Voracek is one of the core players on the Flyers, and I have been complaining about him often, but under a better, experienced coaching staff, I think he'll do fine.

 

[Curufinwe]

Surely Hayes is a lot more comparable to JVR as a signing, than MacDonald.

 

[Tripod]

I mean, by all accounts Hextall tried last summer but struck out on Tavares and Stastny. And not too many get traded who are not expiring. But yeh, it is needed.

2C's or better who are established and get 50+ points just don't come around that often. I mean, Flyers have been trying to get one from outside the franchise since 2011-12 really.

And we are not alone. Look at the Jets themselves paying 1st rounders for #2C rentals. Or Montreal trying Galchenyuk, then Drouin and finally Domi at C.

We are finally in a position to go into the season with 4 good centers...AND having Giroux who can slide over in case of injury AND have a C prospect who can get called up into a top 9 role(if Frost is in the AHL).

Common sense showed we were not going with Couts. Patrick, Frost, Laughton, Pimp as our centers. Just WAY too many unknowns. And obviously Fletch talked to AV about Hayes, how he would be used, and the ripple effect. Again, let's worry about having top much top 9 talent once we actually have it and more.

 

[Curufinwe]

But now maybe JOB doesn't sign here cause his path to the top 9 is blocked.

 

[Appleyard]

Surely Hayes is a lot more comparable to JVR as a signing, than MacDonald.

Yeh, not exactly many warning flags and barring something crazy he should *probably* be at least a passable ~2nd line level guy for the next 4-5 years.

 

[46zone]

Have a feeling the contract is going to be ugly.... Hoping for $5M at 3 years but will probably be $6.5M at 6 years (which is atrocious). I just don't want to see another AMac situation.

$6.5M is not atrocious for Hayes given that he is a solid 2C; people just need to accept that this is now the going rate for players of Hayes's caliber. The cap isn't $65M anymore. You're not getting a 27 year old 2C for $5M on a short term deal. That's fantasy land.

 

[Tripod]

I mean, the nice thing about it is that if he signs and nothing unexpected happens then the Flyers forward group should have no holes, and above average players for their role at worst in all 12 slots for the next three seasons at very worst.

And we probably have 3 seasons before it is statistically likely that Giroux is not 1st line level anymore, and 3-4 for Jake.

Now of course the Dmen need to keep developing and Hart play the way he did last year on a regular basis, but now the only obvious "hole" is a legit #1 Dman. And they probably have ~3 guys on the roster who have to capacity to be that and are age 22-23... just a year or so off entering their likely prime.

It's nice to have you here and your calming ways.

The way I see it, is we built up the prospect pool so there will now always be more guys coming. Signing JVR and now Hayes bridges the gap from all kids, to our top 3 forwards(G, Jake and Couts). If we add the right Dman for the right price and a reliable goalie to pair with Hart, we can actually be contenders this coming year....not just playoff tweeners.

 

[deadhead]

Think Appleyard is a bit optimistic.

Giroux is 1LW right now, but I won't give him more than a year or two left at that level, he's 32 this year.
Voracek is a 2RW, first line scorer, but bad defense lowers his value. He turns 30, not sure he can adjust as he loses speed.
JVR on the other hand, with the right center should play better this season, he was more reliable in Toronto with Bozak.

Hayes is a pretty consistent 5x5 scorer: ES 39, 30, 35, 34, 41, that's borderline 2nd line production.
Compare to Voracek the last five years: ES 48, 32, 38, 50, 48 - average 43 v 36 for Hayes.
Figure maybe a couple years flirting with 40+ ES points, then 30-35 the rest of his contract, solid 3rd line production.
So while he's going to get overpaid, it's not going to be a gross overpay, back years he should still be a $4-5M value.
The real key is whether his defensive improvement is sustainable, as a plus defender he's worth a bit more.

Patrick and Frost, if they play up to their talent, won't be blocked by anyone, since in that case they're in the top 5 among our forwards.
But at age 21 and 20, when may be a more pertinent question than "if."

 

[Jettany]

Have a feeling the contract is going to be ugly.... Hoping for $5M at 3 years but will probably be $6.5M at 6 years (which is atrocious). I just don't want to see another AMac situation.

Insane to think he gets only 5x3. It will be 6-6.5 x6.

 

[Striiker]

It's nice to have you here and your calming ways.

The way I see it, is we built up the prospect pool so there will now always be more guys coming. Signing JVR and now Hayes bridges the gap from all kids, to our top 3 forwards(G, Jake and Couts). If we add the right Dman for the right price and a reliable goalie to pair with Hart, we can actually be contenders this coming year....not just playoff tweeners.

"Blocked" is the word you're looking for.

You can make up fantasies all day about coaches/GMs doing the right thing, letting superior youth play, trading away useless players to make room, and never letting someone get usage they don't deserve... but we know better than that.

 

[Danko]

gotta wonder if they offer him something with a bunch of signing bonus money, those types of deals are getting popular.