Omni Owl
▽
- Mar 9, 2008
- 6,909
- 1,563
He definitely had his skating legs going way better than Mike had last year, it actually surprised me. AND he was trying to make skilled plays right off the bat. Huge upgrade over AA if he can keep it up.
Confirmed with Link: [PHI/LA] Vincent Lecavalier & Luke Schenn for Jordan Weal & 3rd round pick
- Thread starter theMajor
- Start date
-
Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
- Status
He definitely had his skating legs going way better than Mike had last year, it actually surprised me. AND he was trying to make skilled plays right off the bat. Huge upgrade over AA if he can keep it up.
That pass to Mersch was vintage Vinny. Man if we can just get any type of production my goodness it would be 1000 times better then Andreoff. Guess we won the trade for one night.
KingsKnight
Reset in progress
Will Vincent Lecavalier or Mike Richards have a bigger impact on his new team?
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14528951/nhl-morning-3-3-assessing-vincent-lecavalier-mike-richards-deals
interesting discussion about trade and signing.. as burnside pointed out.. i can definitely see LA-WAS stanley cup...
http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/14528951/nhl-morning-3-3-assessing-vincent-lecavalier-mike-richards-deals
interesting discussion about trade and signing.. as burnside pointed out.. i can definitely see LA-WAS stanley cup...
I have to think Schenn was the real trade target, and Lecavalier was a condition of getting the deal done, because nothing else makes sense to me. No one would have batted an eye if this had just been Schenn to the Kings for some picks. But Philly had no other reason to deal a dman so far ahead of the deadline, and for so little.
Nothing about the last few years of Lecavalier looked promising…not by regular stats, or advanced stats, or the eye test. It's no secret they'd been trying to offload him for a while. But the Kings are a strong enough contender to shelter other players. We'll watch what happens on the road, and hopefully careful deployment can help VL with the grind of the Western conference. He could be #4C. I would still like a solid #3C though. I’d give up the 2017 and 2018 draft picks and beyond for one of those (or Buff…haha, pipe dreams
).
Shore is at least splendid on the defensive side of the puck, even if he can’t score worth a damn. It’s good to still have him in the fold as an option at center. He can provide safe minutes. Offense-free minutes, but safe ones. I hope they still work him into some games.
Mostly, I hate that we're carrying $3.12M in dead cap space because we gave too many second chances to Richards. (Ah well. I still hope he can get his act together now that everything is out in the open.) The trade deadline may be totally quiet for us now, but the Kings are still one of the strongest contenders out there right now, no doubt.
Nothing about the last few years of Lecavalier looked promising…not by regular stats, or advanced stats, or the eye test. It's no secret they'd been trying to offload him for a while. But the Kings are a strong enough contender to shelter other players. We'll watch what happens on the road, and hopefully careful deployment can help VL with the grind of the Western conference. He could be #4C. I would still like a solid #3C though. I’d give up the 2017 and 2018 draft picks and beyond for one of those (or Buff…haha, pipe dreams
). Shore is at least splendid on the defensive side of the puck, even if he can’t score worth a damn. It’s good to still have him in the fold as an option at center. He can provide safe minutes. Offense-free minutes, but safe ones. I hope they still work him into some games.
Mostly, I hate that we're carrying $3.12M in dead cap space because we gave too many second chances to Richards. (Ah well. I still hope he can get his act together now that everything is out in the open.) The trade deadline may be totally quiet for us now, but the Kings are still one of the strongest contenders out there right now, no doubt.
Lombardi in his own words
http://lakingsinsider.com/2016/01/07/lombardi-discusses-trades-timing-impetus-laki-radio-hit/
Edit: Philly has a bunch of defensive prospects they want to bring up.
Last edited:
I saw the interview--not sure what point is being made. Lombardi would have to praise Lecavalier no matter what; that's the only way to handle it. Does that mean DL thinks he's a lock to solve the problems at #3C? Eh. Unless they think Vinny has far more in the tank than evidence has shown...that would be great, but I'm not sure why DL should count on it. Vinny is 35, hasn't played much lately, and has had a lot of injuries.
I'm tempering my expectations. If we get a pleasant surprise, that's a bonus. Schenn was the biggest piece and the focus of the deal IMO. They love their Matt Greene types, and were getting the shakes without him.
Edit: I stand firm that Philly could have gotten more for Schenn, given stupid deadline prices of the past. There's no pressing 'need' to bring up D prospects either, by any stretch; Hextall is the last guy to think long AHL development could harm a career. But it's not really that important.
I'm tempering my expectations. If we get a pleasant surprise, that's a bonus. Schenn was the biggest piece and the focus of the deal IMO. They love their Matt Greene types, and were getting the shakes without him.
Edit: I stand firm that Philly could have gotten more for Schenn, given stupid deadline prices of the past. There's no pressing 'need' to bring up D prospects either, by any stretch; Hextall is the last guy to think long AHL development could harm a career. But it's not really that important.
Last edited:
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Yeah, I mean, I don't think DL would every say "yeah he's just a throw in we had to take as a favor for hexy." But as he's reportedly been working this deal for a while, I'm sure there's some hint of truth/belief there that Vinny can turn it around. IF he's right, both him and Hextall look like geniuses.
Well, from the talk about Vinny I was expecting Hunter/Moreau.
He still looked really good on the boards and he's got exceptional vision. Those strengths are key to the Kings style. He didn't look particularly slow, either.
We've all seen players suck on one team and tear it up on another, we will see what happens. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see VL recharged, though. Everybody has had a job/situation they were uncomfortable with, and it's human nature not to perform when you feel you are in a ****** place. If VL plays motivated and sticks to his strengths, I think he is going to surprise a lot of people and raise the hatred of this team to new levels. If he doesn't well, we have some depth in case of injury.
He still looked really good on the boards and he's got exceptional vision. Those strengths are key to the Kings style. He didn't look particularly slow, either.
We've all seen players suck on one team and tear it up on another, we will see what happens. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see VL recharged, though. Everybody has had a job/situation they were uncomfortable with, and it's human nature not to perform when you feel you are in a ****** place. If VL plays motivated and sticks to his strengths, I think he is going to surprise a lot of people and raise the hatred of this team to new levels. If he doesn't well, we have some depth in case of injury.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Guaranteed Schenn costs a lot more on his own. If Regehr can fetch two 2nds, Schenn can fetch a 2nd and something as well. If he fits in well here and we manage to resign him, could be a real solid deal for LA.
As for VL, I'm inclined to think he has more than what Philly got out of him. I'm not expecting a point per game centre here but he had 32 points in 39 games his final season in Tampa in what was the lock out shorted season. Then he goes to Philly and has 60 in 140 games (including playoffs), 39 of which came in his first season.
I'd like to think he is still capable of chipping in a little bit and maybe the situation just wasn't right in Philly. I believe someone mention how Lavy was a big reason he signed in Philly and they fired him three games into the next season after VL signed there, so it's not like he even got to play under the circumstances to which he joined the club.
At worst we got a big bodied, highly motivated former high end scorer to go plant himself in front of the net on the PP and eat up 8-10 minutes on the 4th line. At best we got someone who can chip in on the 3rd line and maybe pull a Handzus in the playoffs. As long as he does retire after the season, it's a win for us.
Primakov!
Registered User
Just think back to how many Buffalo Sabres fans claimed that Robyn Regehr was a hot mess and that he was done as an effective NHL defenseman after the Kings traded for him.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
I don't think many in the east realize just how bad Richards was his last two years in LA, that includes both media and fans.
It's an impossibility for VL to be as bad as Richards was, and even if he was, he wouldn't have the equity built up with Sutter that MR had, which enabled Sutter to give Richards about 20 chances to re-find his game, including the start of the 2014 playoffs, which nearly cost the Kings a chance at the SC.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
As an interesting side note, it's likely fitting VL is finishing his career under DL. DL had a lot of influence on VL's career at the start when, as the SJ GM, he traded Viktor Kozlov to Florida for their first. Later that season, he flipped that pick to Tampa Bay in a swap of firsts that also landed SJ Bryan Marchment. The deal included a clause that Tampa Bay got whichever pick was higher after the lottery draft, effectively guaranteeing they got Lecavalier since the Panthers and Lightning had the two worst records and thus the top two odds to get the top pick.
Side note, Marchment was traded by San Jose several seasons later and one of the picks that they got back eventually turned into Brad Richardson.
Side note, Marchment was traded by San Jose several seasons later and one of the picks that they got back eventually turned into Brad Richardson.
The point that really sinks the VL was the price for Schenn is that I'm guessing there are a number of other 3rd pairing d's out there that could be had for a 3rd round pick. If Lombardi didn't want VL on the team he had a ton of other options. VL is here because Lombardi is taking a shot on him.
Also if Lombardi really wanted Schenn with 50% retained, without VL a 2nd round pick gets that done at any time.
Aren't there a lot of teams out there that have top-4 d that have slipped and are probably 3rd pairing D's at this point they'd jettison at 50% retained?
AlphaBravo
Registered User
Right handed defensemen are going to be highly sought after at the trade deadline. Almost every team is looking for an upgrade, especially fringe teams looking to push into a playoff spot. I don't think Lombardi would get Schenn for a 3rd round pick if he waited until the trade deadline. He sure as hell would not get him at 50% retained. As the deal stands now, he basically got Schenn at full price and VL for free.
I also add that teams will be massively overpaying for top 4 defensemen, if any are even available. Getting a top 4 defenseman is almost as hard as getting a number 1 center. Just look at what it cost Columbus to get Jones. Even as a rental, teams are going to want a number 1 pick back, which the Kings do not have. Thus, whether or not Lombardi got Schenn has no bearing on our ability to get a top 4 defenseman. The only option we had before the trade and even now is getting a solid 3C. We can still afford one at the trade deadline by trading a roster player back and the few remaining cap dollars we currently have.
Last edited:
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I bet if Philly was offered a 2nd for Schenn, at 50% retained, they pass.
You can easily get that much at the trade deadline, likely a lot better. Hexy got a 1st, 3rd and Gudas for Coburn, without retaining any salary. Schenn should be able to fetch more than a second.
You can easily get that much at the trade deadline, likely a lot better. Hexy got a 1st, 3rd and Gudas for Coburn, without retaining any salary. Schenn should be able to fetch more than a second.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I mean, I know we half-joke about it, but almost every one of the Kings' moves over the last few years has been universally panned...then suddenly, all but a few have worked exceedingly well. Funny that the one that WASNT criticized as heavily was Sekera--and though he mostly gets an 'incomplete' due to injury, I'd argue that's the one that worked out worst--yet even in hindsight, I'd personally do that trade every time.
kingsfan
President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
I panned Sekera. Was a bad overpayment at the time, made worse by injury and not being able to resign him (which also did not shock me).
Is Schenn on the same level as Coburn? Is he a top 4D? Lombardi went out and got him to fill the spot on the 3rd pair. What would Polak go for? Gudas is another 3rd pairing guy that went for cheap.
Coburn was probalby traded for to fill in, in the top 4, I don't watch enough TB games to know how he's doing. Schenn was traded for to fill in on the bottom pairing. Probably somewhere between Gudas and Coburn.
Regehr was also brought in to play on the Kings top pairing.
I don't see Schenn = 1st, 3rd, Gudas - VL....
Schenn for a 3rd or Schenn for a 3rd + Weal with VL for free make more sense.
Edit: Anyways the notion that Lombardi had to take VL on in order to fill the bottom pairing D is just wrong. Kings could run Schultz/McBain if they didn't want VL.
raswilliam
Registered User
I am more than happy with this trade. We gave up peanuts for a Right shot d-man and 3/4 center.
Revisit this trade at the deadline to compare the going rate for a Right shot d-man and 3/4 center with $ retained. Good Job Deaner.
Revisit this trade at the deadline to compare the going rate for a Right shot d-man and 3/4 center with $ retained. Good Job Deaner.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
The Sekera trade wasn't my point at all. My point was DL is fantastic at finding value on struggling teams that fits here like a glove when they're sometimes the 'worst players' on those teams, and because of that, our trades often get trashed until we get results out of those players because they're surrounded by much better support and structure for their skills. DL is still playing Moneyball in many ways.
In fact, the Sekera one is against the norm--we went after the best UFA d-man available and landed him, keeping him away from Chicago in the process. The rest of the moves are often out of left field or moves that weren't the 'first option' talked about in regards to the Kings...like Penner, Gaborik, Regehr (more predictable), McNabb, Carter, Richards as examples.
In fact, the Sekera one is against the norm--we went after the best UFA d-man available and landed him, keeping him away from Chicago in the process. The rest of the moves are often out of left field or moves that weren't the 'first option' talked about in regards to the Kings...like Penner, Gaborik, Regehr (more predictable), McNabb, Carter, Richards as examples.
Looking back, I see more and more why DL built the room first. Even before he built from the back out, he determined what kind of individuals he wanted in his locker room and started clearing out what he didn't perceive as from that mold.
I think that's a huge reason why a wide range of guys "fit" in that room. You can bet that Vinnie being a leader and Drew's input played a large part in this trade. Not so much can they play, but will they assimilate into the family-like atmosphere, where you would bleed for your teammates.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
One thing I noticed about Lecavalier's play last night that I really liked was his play behind the opponents net. He created quite a few good chances with his passes, and adding an offensive element to the bottom six was something that has been sorely lacking, especially at center.
Having both Lewis and Shore at center is just way too redundant. Shore is a clone of Lewis. Eventually I think he will find his way as a regular in the lineup, and given Dean Lombardi's comments in the conference call, they're also high on Dowd potentially filling a center role in the near future. Adding Lecavalier just bides them some time. Hopefully by next season Shore finds some confidence in his abilities and solidifies himself as the #3C and Dowd can be eased in as the 4th line center.
And FYI, Trevor Lewis was at a team low 33% on the dot last night and has the worst faceoff percentage on the team at 41%. While he performs admirably in his efforts, he just isn't very good at winning draws.
Having both Lewis and Shore at center is just way too redundant. Shore is a clone of Lewis. Eventually I think he will find his way as a regular in the lineup, and given Dean Lombardi's comments in the conference call, they're also high on Dowd potentially filling a center role in the near future. Adding Lecavalier just bides them some time. Hopefully by next season Shore finds some confidence in his abilities and solidifies himself as the #3C and Dowd can be eased in as the 4th line center.
And FYI, Trevor Lewis was at a team low 33% on the dot last night and has the worst faceoff percentage on the team at 41%. While he performs admirably in his efforts, he just isn't very good at winning draws.
I'd have been surprised and disappointed if this was the case.
Perhaps a 2nd from LA, given it's likely to be a very late 2nd, would be tougher to accept.
But still - there have been points where Schenn looked like he might not return more than a very late round pick.
- Status
