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Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [Mid-April Edition]

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Beef Invictus said:
Glad we are drafting and developing for the bottom six still, after years of constant failure with that approach.
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They got Avon for free.
Personally, I'd be fine with them signing undrafted but talented prospects with realistic bottom-6 upside as long as they had good strategy for drafting top-6 talent. So far, I agree that this part raises concern.
 
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dats81 said:
They got Avon for free.
Personally, I'd be fine with them signing undrafted but talented prospects with realistic bottom-6 upside as long as they had good strategy for drafting top-6 talent. So far, I agree that this part raises concern.
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Depends on the player.

I don't want high ceiling players with bad intangibles, how often do they reach that ceiling?
On the other hand, high floor players with low ceilings are 3rd round or later, don't want to waste top picks on bottom six candidates.

And how high is the ceiling? If it's middle six, better to go with high floor players who can at least provide depth than gamble on players who aren't going to move the needle but can leave organizational holes. Guys like Cousins may not have high ceilings, but he's shown that he can contribute over a decade.

Once you get to the 4th rd or later, it's all a crapshoot anyway, so rolling the dice on a longshot makes sense.
Though it should be paired with the "hidden gem" strategy, Cates and Desnoyers were in defense first roles that made them look worse offensively than they really were, making them available in the 5th rd.
 
deadhead said:
Depends on the player.

I don't want high ceiling players with bad intangibles, how often do they reach that ceiling?
On the other hand, high floor players with low ceilings are 3rd round or later, don't want to waste top picks on bottom six candidates.

And how high is the ceiling? If it's middle six, better to go with high floor players who can at least provide depth than gamble on players who aren't going to move the needle but can leave organizational holes. Guys like Cousins may not have high ceilings, but he's shown that he can contribute over a decade.

Once you get to the 4th rd or later, it's all a crapshoot anyway, so rolling the dice on a longshot makes sense.
Though it should be paired with the "hidden gem" strategy, Cates and Desnoyers were in defense first roles that made them look worse offensively than they really were, making them available in the 5th rd.
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Intangibles aren't worth worrying about 90% of the time. If you're skipping on players for that (like the Flyers certainly do, considering they think skilled players are bad on that front by default), then you're going to fail and that's the only possible outcome.
 
Wow, Petes were down 4-1 and came back late in 2nd. Zanetti scored a great goal beating his man from the point and tipping it in, after a strong entry by Avon, who kept it in on a very good back check. 4-4 end of 2 in tiebreaker.
 
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Larry44 said:
Who says a fight can’t spark a team. Devils’ 1st rounder Chase Stillman crushed a guy on a clean hit then destroyed the instigator.

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Yeah, some impressive stuff from Stillman. Didn't really spark the Petes though. Even Othmann's goal didn't. Kamloops had cruise control for almost two entire periods.

It was Owen Zellweger and the delay of game penalty he took towards the end of the 2nd that ultimately cost Kamloops. The Petes PP is usually brutal and has been vs Kamloops as well. But that Mayer (has been the most brutal of all Petes in the last PP) PP goal shifted the momentum. Zanetti scored right afterwards and the Petes were then able to first stop the bleeding and then take over control.

That was a very lucky Petes win. Kamloops has all the answers vs the Petes game/system. Unlike in the first game they were unable to completely sink the Petes so when Zellweger took that dumb penalty with Kamloops only up by two it cost them.

Petes will face Seattle in the semifinal Friday night. A more talented team than Kamloops but the Petes looked good against them, were just let down by a leaking Michael Simpson. If Simpson is sharp again (he was in all other Memorial cup games) then I like the Petes chances. Energy could be a problem for the Petes though. That Kamloops game must have emptied their batteries pretty good.
 
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Stillman needed to do something after a dumb penalty and some brain dead play.
Mayer was brutal.
Avon is not especially skilled, but has enough skill for a bottom six role.
Zanetti bears watching in the Swiss league next season.
 
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It's good Briere feels no pressure to rush Gauthier, it didn't hurt Barzal to spend that extra year in the CHL, it won't hurt Gauthier to spend another year at center on a more talented BC team, and LW at the WJC-20 (he's still eligible?). Notice Briere talked about him as both a LW and C, I think they like that roster flexibility going forward b/c you don't know who'll you'll draft and be offered in trades.

But I can't imagine he won't be in the top six in 2024-25 unless he flops this season in BC. Which is highly unlikely given his performance this year.
 
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deadhead said:
It's good Briere feels no pressure to rush Gauthier, it didn't hurt Barzal to spend that extra year in the CHL, it won't hurt Gauthier to spend another year at center on a more talented BC team, and LW at the WJC-20 (he's still eligible?). Notice Briere talked about him as both a LW and C, I think they like that roster flexibility going forward b/c you don't know who'll you'll draft and be offered in trades.

But I can't imagine he won't be in the top six in 2024-25 unless he flops this season in BC. Which is highly unlikely given his performance this year.
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they will yo yo him around like schenn is my guess
 
GKJ said:
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I swear, I'm trying to give Briere the benefit of the doubt, but every time he speaks, I find at least 2 problems in what he said.

1) Focusing on making Cutter a center, which is already trying to fit him in a role instead of just focusing on growing his strengths and findings ways to minimize his weakness. That doesn't mean you can't try him at center, but clearly his best position is the wing.
2) Discussing 4th line roles, meaning that he might still holds the view of 4th line/bottom 6 lines having to be solely a low/non-offensive role grinding-type role. Given his praises of Desluariers, it's not making me feel great...

There's no reason a team couldn't start development of one of their top forwards in the bottom 6. The only reason is that you're already decided that a very specific part of your lineup has a very specific role. By thinking this way, you've already mentally boxed yourself in. In order to be good, you need some type of secondary scoring out of your bottom 6, AND you also need production out of your ELCs and 2nd contracts.

Regarding Cutter's development, I'd rather see them deploy him in ways to beneficial Cutter's development. Ideally, sure with other offensive talent, but that doesn't mean he can't play 11-12 min of 5v5 and PP time and still develop. It's not long term, but it's fine to have a young player come into the league in the bottom of your lineup, almost everyone needs a certain amount of games to acclimate to the NHL speed.
 
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It's not long term, but it's fine to have a young player come into the league in the bottom of your lineup, almost everyone needs a certain amount of games to acclimate to the NHL speed.
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And that shouldn't be new to anyone in Philly. It's what happened with 20 year old Jeff Carter who scored 42 points while playing 12:04 per game. Only 9:10 at ES!

www.nhl.com

NHL Stats

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www.nhl.com www.nhl.com
 
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VladDrag said:
I swear, I'm trying to give Briere the benefit of the doubt, but every time he speaks, I find at least 2 problems in what he said.

1) Focusing on making Cutter a center, which is already trying to fit him in a role instead of just focusing on growing his strengths and findings ways to minimize their weakness. That doesn't mean you can't try him at center, but clearly his best position is the wing.
2) Discussing 4th line roles, meaning that he might still holds the view of 4th line/bottom 6 lines having to be solely a low/non-offensive role grinding-type role. Given his praises of Desluariers, it's not making me feel great...

There's no reason a team couldn't start development of one of their top forwards in the bottom 6. The only reason is that you're already decided the a very specific part of your lineup has a very specific role. By thinking this way, you've already mentally boxed yourself in. In order to be good, you need some type of secondary scoring out of your bottom 6, AND you also need production out of your ELCs and 2nd contracts.

Regarding Cutter's development, I'd rather see them deploy him in ways to beneficial Cutter's development. Ideally, sure with other offensive talent, but that doesn't mean he can't play 11-12 min of 5v5 and PP time and still develop. It's not long term, but it's fine to have a young player come into the league in the bottom of your lineup, almost everyone needs a certain amount of games to acclimate to the NHL speed.
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1) Cutter is going to play center at BC, that really isn't in the Flyers control, anymore than him playing LW in Int'l competition. However, from their perspective, Cutter playing center helps his development b/c it forces him to be more than a sniper, to play a bigger role on defense and get a lot of practice taking faceoffs (which helps at wing when your center is kicked out). If they draft someone like Benson, they may need Cutter at center in 2024-25. If they land a top 6 playmaking center prospect in the draft or a trade, they can move him to LW. Optionality.

2) You don't want someone like Foerster spinning his wheels on the 4th line with a subpar center. You think they're gonna land 4 playmaking centers? Look at the playoff teams - anyone fielding 4 offensively talented lines? You play your most talented offensive players up in the lineup, if some are deficient on defense, you shelter them when you can and use an "energy line" against the opponent's top lines to wear them down. If the Flyers could field 4 lines of above average offensive forwards they wouldn't be rebuilding, they'd be competing.

Cutter should move into the top 9 to start, and then into the top 6. It's a waste to put him on the 4th line, either he's going to center the 3rd line or probably be the LW on the 2nd line at some point. The guys who work their way up from the 4th line are marginal prospects who outperform expectations, Avon may be one of those guys in a year or two after he gets seasoned in the AHL. Desnoyers, Wisdom if he turns it around. Players like Lycksell and Gendron are more problematic, they may struggle in a 4th line role (see Leier, Kase) but have to show they're worthy of 3rd line minutes.
 
deadhead said:
1) Cutter is going to play center at BC, that really isn't in the Flyers control, anymore than him playing LW in Int'l competition. However, from their perspective, Cutter playing center helps his development b/c it forces him to be more than a sniper, to play a bigger role on defense and get a lot of practice taking faceoffs (which helps at wing when your center is kicked out). If they draft someone like Benson, they may need Cutter at center in 2024-25. If they land a top 6 playmaking center prospect in the draft or a trade, they can move him to LW. Optionality.

2) You don't want someone like Foerster spinning his wheels on the 4th line with a subpar center. You think they're gonna land 4 playmaking centers? Look at the playoff teams - anyone fielding 4 offensively talented lines? You play your most talented offensive players up in the lineup, if some are deficient on defense, you shelter them when you can and use an "energy line" against the opponent's top lines to wear them down. If the Flyers could field 4 lines of above average offensive forwards they wouldn't be rebuilding, they'd be competing.

Cutter should move into the top 9 to start, and then into the top 6. It's a waste to put him on the 4th line, either he's going to center the 3rd line or probably be the LW on the 2nd line at some point. The guys who work their way up from the 4th line are marginal prospects who outperform expectations, Avon may be one of those guys in a year or two after he gets seasoned in the AHL. Desnoyers, Wisdom if he turns it around. Players like Lycksell and Gendron are more problematic, they may struggle in a 4th line role (see Leier, Kase) but have to show they're worthy of 3rd line minutes.
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You deserve this team!
 
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