Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [Mid-April Edition]

[blackjackmulligan]

You expect to find special players after the 2nd round? Do you actually expect to win the lottery when you buy a ticket?
Finding solid bottom six/third pair guys is a win after the 2nd round.

other teams do , flyers do not. that wasnt the point

 

[wasup]

38 points his first full season. no reason why he cant get into the 40-45 range.

He was on #1 pp out for most open net chances and glued to TK where he picked up points just touching the puck most of the time .With Cout's back and Atkinson back he won't get those mins . Tort's made him what he had by forced prime time mins .
He has never been a point producer at lower levels , he is a defensively responsible "winger" that can PK and play a shut down role which is just fine .

 

[deadhead]

other teams do , flyers do not. that wasnt the point

They rarely do, which IS the point. It's not something you can count on when mapping out a rebuilding strategy. When it happens, it's a bonus.
You can find a lot of depth players after the 2nd round.
If Ersson becomes an above average starting goalie, or Cates a 2LW, you've hit the jackpot.
But you're doing fine if Ersson is a solid backup and Cates a solid 3C.

 

[Beef Invictus]

38 points his first full season. no reason why he cant get into the 40-45 range.

With first line talent and tons of ice time. Gourde does a lot more with less.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They rarely do, which IS the point. It's not something you can count on when mapping out a rebuilding strategy. When it happens, it's a bonus.
You can find a lot of depth players after the 2nd round.
If Ersson becomes an above average starting goalie, or Cates a 2LW, you've hit the jackpot.
But you're doing fine if Ersson is a solid backup and Cates a solid 3C.

Oh well if it's rare I guess there's no point bothering

 

[Tripod]

Oh well if it's rare I guess there's no point bothering

Now imagine trading a 1st rd pick....say around #13 for an expensive 3rd pairing guy. Then giving him a long contract.

Is that smart?

 

[BernieParent]

You expect to find special players after the 2nd round? Do you actually expect to win the lottery when you buy a ticket?
Finding solid bottom six/third pair guys is a win after the 2nd round.

I've never heard of anyone scout a lottery. And yet there is a team of very well paid individuals whose job it is to find talent with every one of their picks. They had better be able to be both good and lucky in the next few drafts for this team to start climbing out of their competitive hole.

 

[deadhead]

I've never heard of anyone scout a lottery. And yet there is a team of very well paid individuals whose job it is to find talent with every one of their picks. They had better be able to be both good and lucky in the next few drafts for this team to start climbing out of their competitive hole.

The average draft produces about 1 starter a year, a good draft 2 starters, a great draft 2 starters in the top 6/top 4.
Drafting is hard. Expectations should be tempered.

It's probably harder these days b/c there is far more video available, so few players go unnoticed.

 

[Tripod]

Having less picks make it harder?

 

[Magua]

You expect to find special players after the 2nd round?

I thought that was the Flyers plan? Better be quick about it: only 3 years to go!

 

[deadhead]

Having less picks make it harder?

Last time I checked, Fletcher was gone. But keep beating that dead horse!

 

[Tripod]

Last time I checked, Fletcher was gone. But keep beating that dead horse!

Yeah....you haven’t mentioned Hextall in 5 years.

Oh wait.

 

[mr4tno]

It's good Briere feels no pressure to rush Gauthier, it didn't hurt Barzal to spend that extra year in the CHL, it won't hurt Gauthier to spend another year at center on a more talented BC team, and LW at the WJC-20 (he's still eligible?). Notice Briere talked about him as both a LW and C, I think they like that roster flexibility going forward b/c you don't know who'll you'll draft and be offered in trades.

But I can't imagine he won't be in the top six in 2024-25 unless he flops this season in BC. Which is highly unlikely given his performance this year.

...or highly likely given he is a Flyers draft pick (sarcasm, couldn't resist)

I swear, I'm trying to give Briere the benefit of the doubt, but every time he speaks, I find at least 2 problems in what he said.

1) Focusing on making Cutter a center, which is already trying to fit him in a role instead of just focusing on growing his strengths and findings ways to minimize his weakness. That doesn't mean you can't try him at center, but clearly his best position is the wing.
2) Discussing 4th line roles, meaning that he might still holds the view of 4th line/bottom 6 lines having to be solely a low/non-offensive role grinding-type role. Given his praises of Desluariers, it's not making me feel great...

There's no reason a team couldn't start development of one of their top forwards in the bottom 6. The only reason is that you're already decided that a very specific part of your lineup has a very specific role. By thinking this way, you've already mentally boxed yourself in. In order to be good, you need some type of secondary scoring out of your bottom 6, AND you also need production out of your ELCs and 2nd contracts.

Regarding Cutter's development, I'd rather see them deploy him in ways to beneficial Cutter's development. Ideally, sure with other offensive talent, but that doesn't mean he can't play 11-12 min of 5v5 and PP time and still develop. It's not long term, but it's fine to have a young player come into the league in the bottom of your lineup, almost everyone needs a certain amount of games to acclimate to the NHL speed.

Agreed. Tampa, Carolina, Florida....well all the playoff teams do this

 

[mr4tno]

You expect to find special players after the 2nd round? Do you actually expect to win the lottery when you buy a ticket?
Finding solid bottom six/third pair guys is a win after the 2nd round.

Well, to win you have to play the lottery. My problem is by trading their 2nd round picks they do not even get in the lottery (and that is hurting them big time this year). Compounding matters is they get absolute shit for their 2nds. Trading seconds is a almost as much a Flyers tradition as drafting knuckle draggers.

 

[mr4tno]

The average draft produces about 1 starter a year, a good draft 2 starters, a great draft 2 starters in the top 6/top 4.
Drafting is hard. Expectations should be tempered.

It's probably harder these days b/c there is far more video available, so few players go unnoticed.

Agree with your facts, but the Flyers penchant for trading drafts picks and then opting for size/grit/fighting when they do have them clearly reduces their odds of success even further in the later rounds.

Case in point... round 3 of 2013 - Flyers take Tyler Goulbourne because, according to PH they didn't have a 4th (traded) and he would not last until the 5th (BTW he probably would have never been drafted if not for the Flyers). Players taken after him, and STILL in the 3rd round - Buchnevich, Guentzel, Janmark-Nylen, Duclair, Verhaeghe, Bjorkstrand (who they should have known about because he played with Leirer who was a Flyers draft pick). Maybe this is an exception but it points to the fact that later round draft picks can have value so if trade them you better get value, AND, always go for skill over grit. Grit can be found everywhere.....

 

[deadhead]

Agree with your facts, but the Flyers penchant for trading drafts picks and then opting for size/grit/fighting when they do have them clearly reduces their odds of success even further in the later rounds.

Case in point... round 3 of 2013 - Flyers take Tyler Goulbourne because, according to PH they didn't have a 4th (traded) and he would not last until the 5th (BTW he probably would have never been drafted if not for the Flyers). Players taken after him, and STILL in the 3rd round - Buchnevich, Guentzel, Janmark-Nylen, Duclair, Verhaeghe, Bjorkstrand (who they should have known about because he played with Leirer who was a Flyers draft pick). Maybe this is an exception but it points to the fact that later round draft picks can have value so if trade them you better get value, AND, always go for skill over grit. Grit can be found everywhere.....

There are no absolutes. Mediocre skill isn't very valuable unless it's paired with above average defense.

Holmgren and Hextall did have a traditional Flyer fixation with big physical players who lack speed/skill, Goul, Dove-McFalls, Bunnaman, Twarynski. Ginning, St Ivany. Morin and Ratcliffe were overdrafted due to size.

Flyers haven't drafted for size under Flahr, all the big players he took (except McDonald in the 6th rd) are skilled: Foerster, Attard, Gauthier, Kaplan, and they haven't drafted for physical play either.

Now if by "grit" you mean players who forecheck and play defense, Wisdom in the 4th, Desnoyers in the 5th, Brodzinski in the 7th.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you ignore their continuing obsession with size, straight from Flahr himself, and their entire development process, that makes sense.

If you want to live in reality, then no, that doesn't make sense

 

[BernieParent]

The average draft produces about 1 starter a year, a good draft 2 starters, a great draft 2 starters in the top 6/top 4.
Drafting is hard. Expectations should be tempered.

It's probably harder these days b/c there is far more video available, so few players go unnoticed.

Thanks, dead. We know how hard it is to nail later-round picks, but when your stated strategies are building through the draft without tanking and finding unrealized talent in other organizations, the pressure is on the Flyers' scouts to outdo their counterparts and these traditional averages. They can also be assisted by drafting in volume, which will require moving several roster players. We'll see if Briere puts the talk into action.

 

[deadhead]

Thanks, dead. We know how hard it is to nail later-round picks, but when your stated strategies are building through the draft without tanking and finding unrealized talent in other organizations, the pressure is on the Flyers' scouts to outdo their counterparts and these traditional averages. They can also be assisted by drafting in volume, which will require moving several roster players. We'll see if Briere puts the talk into action.

You don't have to tank, you do have to accumulate draft picks.
But if you look at most playoff teams, they acquire talent through other channels than just draft picks, trades, waiver wire, low cost FAs, etc.
That's where the Flyers have been deficient for a decade or longer.

 

[BernieParent]

You don't have to tank, you do have to accumulate draft picks.
But if you look at most playoff teams, they acquire talent through other channels than just draft picks, trades, waiver wire, low cost FAs, etc.
That's where the Flyers have been deficient for a decade or longer.

Thanks, dead. Most of what you alluded to is what I identified as finding unrealized talent in other organizations.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You don't have to tank, you do have to accumulate draft picks.
But if you look at most playoff teams, they acquire talent through other channels than just draft picks, trades, waiver wire, low cost FAs, etc.
That's where the Flyers have been deficient for a decade or longer.

You kinda have to tank.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Bedard is so hot.

 

[BigToe]

Bedard is so hot.

Are you ok over there?

 

[FLYguy3911]

Are you ok over there?

I'm doing the scouting that matters.

 

[BigToe]

I'm doing the scouting that matters.

You were talking about me finishing my list too early and you haven’t even started yet! The draft is in 24 days, my boy.