Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[arttk]

Something isn't adding up here.

Pettersson had tendinitis in his knee. This tendinitis was so bad that he went from being a 100 point player to a 47 point player.

Yet, the team (and himself) decided that he should play all 82 games, all 13 playoff games and fly out for the NHL All-Star game, with no rest or breaks.

When Miller, Boeser and Hronek all sat out the final road trip to Winnipeg when the Canucks had already locked up the #1 seed, Pettersson still played.

When the Canucks had already locked up a playoff spot by early March, Pettersson still played.

Tendinitis is quite literally healed with rest.

For what possible reason could there be to keep him in the lineup?

At one point, he wasn't even helping the team win games. I watched those games in full. There were a handful of games where he hurt the team more than he helped.

So we kept a guy in the lineup whose play had so significantly deteriorated that he wasn't helping the team, and he was also in pain?

Sorry but the reporters need to do a better job asking questions around this because the answers we've gotten so far are not a reasonable or satisfactory explanation.

I think management believes that star players need to produce even when they are injured because it’s unlikely they won’t be injury free during the playoffs. Which is acceptable conceptually but it just seems so stupid considering the fact that, well let him heal and then if he gets injured again in the playoffs, get him to deal with it then.

As much as I like Tocchet as a coach, pretending like he's never lied about something when it's documented that he clearly has is silly. As I said when it happened, very disappointed in his calling out then and it was another mistake he made in these playoffs.

Well it did help convince ppl that Petey wasn’t injured..

 

[mossey3535]

Also I don't understand why people were so quick to turn on a, no OUR young star player. It's one thing to doubt that he was hurt at the time, we were all speculating then and I personally admitted as much when I maintained that he was injured.

I will say that the physical evidence to me pointed towards injury. You can always tell when the guy's power and skating is affected.

But now that we know he was injured, why double down and question the severity of it or indeed even the existence of it? We committed to this guy, he's here for the long run despite all the bizarre trade ideas I've heard through these playoffs.

I feel like people just wanted to jump on his softness and/or psychology so quickly. I don't know, it's just all very off putting to me.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

 

[Hodgy]

These aren't strawmen. You literally said that based on the balance of probabilities, you didn't think he was injured before.

When did I literally say that? I’ve been pretty consistent that I thought, on a balance of probabilities, that an injury wasn’t causing his bad play. You are creating a strawman by representing my position as being that I thought, on a balance of probability, that Pettersson didn’t have an injury. The two are clearly not the same.

You still don't believe if the (now confirmed) injury was enough to affect his play. You are literally questioning the "legitimacy" of the injury. Again, it is not, in any way, a strawman. It is your position.

It is very clearly a strawman since I never questioned the “legitimacy” of his injury when he came out and said he was injured. I questioned whether his injury caused his bad play.

I don’t doubt that it had some affect on his play, but did it cause him to go from a 100 point player to a 50 point player? And if so, and given that the injury was treatable with rest, why the hell wasn’t he sat? Again, the facts don’t add up.

I disagree. Visually, he was limited. Petey says he was injured and that it affected his play. You don't prescribe to that view. That's fine.

Again, that isn’t my view. I believe Petey was injured and I’m sure it did affect his play. The question is to what extent.

But again, there isn't much more to discuss if you fundamentally don't think the injury was "legit" enough to explain his dip in play.

Again, this is a total strawman. Not once have I ever questioned the “legitimacy” of his injury. I questioned the severity of it and affect it had on his play.

 

[DiggerDan]

I had to rehab a pretty bad case of knee tendinitis several years ago. Rest made it feel better but taking some time off then going back to activity would have left me where I stopped. Rehabbing required a 2-3 month program of managed loading to get back to where I was previously. Ramping up the intensity in the middle of that program would have likely taken me back to square one (and did at one point when I was too aggressive in returning to prior activity).

The advice to Pettersson could have been similar - either miss a few months to resolve it or play through it and work on it in the summer.

This. And I expect it's no more complicated. Had to have a chuckle at Toch's reaction to the moment the reporter told him Petey brought the injury up:

 

[mathonwy]

People literally asked the same question about playing Mik when he had a torn ACL…
This management group has shown so far that they are fine with letting players play even if they are pretty injured. I think that really has to stop.

Toc lied to our face, it’s as simple as that. He said not injured, fact is he was/is injured.

He told you what you wanted to hear and its your fault for believing him.

Tocc is not obligated to do anything except for protecting the players.

Relevant is below:

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[AlainVigneaultsGum]

Also I don't understand why people were so quick to turn on a, no OUR young star player. It's one thing to doubt that he was hurt at the time, we were all speculating then and I personally admitted as much when I maintained that he was injured.

I will say that the physical evidence to me pointed towards injury. You can always tell when the guy's power and skating is affected.

But now that we know he was injured, why double down and question the severity of it or indeed even the existence of it? We committed to this guy, he's here for the long run despite all the bizarre trade ideas I've heard through these playoffs.

I feel like people just wanted to jump on his softness and/or psychology so quickly. I don't know, it's just all very off putting to me.

Because then they'd have to admit they were wrong. Hahahahaha.

 

[arttk]

He told you what you wanted to hear and its your fault for believing him.

Tocc is not obligated to do anything except for protecting the players.

Relevant is below:

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Me?

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Everyone needs to relax, he had a bad playoffs but will bounce back. Will redeem himself next playoffs. His contract may seem terrible for the Canucks at the moment but will be good value in a couple years as he progresses and the Cap moves up. Everyone goes through Slumps, this is a one off, hope he proves all the haters wrong next playoffs, I believe in Petey!

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Nah, playing game 82 in the schedule is more important for "reasons".

Skipping a game or two wont do shit.

Also I don't understand why people were so quick to turn on a, no OUR young star player. It's one thing to doubt that he was hurt at the time, we were all speculating then and I personally admitted as much when I maintained that he was injured.

I will say that the physical evidence to me pointed towards injury. You can always tell when the guy's power and skating is affected.

But now that we know he was injured, why double down and question the severity of it or indeed even the existence of it? We committed to this guy, he's here for the long run despite all the bizarre trade ideas I've heard through these playoffs.

I feel like people just wanted to jump on his softness and/or psychology so quickly. I don't know, it's just all very off putting to me.

Because its not fun to admit you were wrong. Many smart people are completely incapable of performing that exorcism on them selves.

 

[NucksRuleYep]

Ok Ill hold EP down so you can kick him in the head.


He gave a discount.

He didnt demand shit, he was looking to not worry about the contract during the season.

How is 11.6 million a discount? That makes him the 5th highest paid player in the NHL. Is he the 5th best player in the NHL? So if you think 11.6 million is a hometown discount, you think he could have gotten more elsewhere? Where? What team would have given him 12 or 13 million for 7 years?

 

[PuckMunchkin]

How is 11.6 million a discount? That makes him the 5th highest paid player in the NHL. Is he the 5th best player in the NHL? So if you think 11.6 million is a hometown discount, you think he could have gotten more elsewhere? Where? What team would have given him 12 or 13 million for 7 years?

He could have had more.

He left at least a mil on the table.

You are the first person I've seen who thinks he could not have got more elsewhere. How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Hit the post]

Skipping a game or two wont do shit.

Yes Dr Recchi.

 

[rea]

He could have had more.

He left at least a mil on the table.

You are the first person I've seen who thinks he could not have got more elsewhere. How did you come to this conclusion?

Again, at the time of that signing, canucks land was rejoicing at that price, and majority of the rest of league fans felt it was at worst fair market value. There is nothing that has happened that could remotely change my opinion he's not going to be that value going fwd

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Yes Dr Recchi.

Choosing ignorance?

Brave.

Cant be sure but easily the most common knee related tendinitis is the patellar tendon. Aka jumpers knee:

"How Long Does It Take For Jumpers Knee To Heal?​

This will depend on the degree of damage to the tendon but typically once the correct treatment has started a period of 2-3 months will allow good tissue healing and strengthening. Even if the tendon hasn’t fully healed by this stage, it should be ready to do some higher impact activity again. In some mild cases, sport can be continued whilst the tendon is being treated and it can be managed carefully without it worsening, but in more severe cases the tendon will need complete rest and could take as long as 6-9 months to fully heal."

Jumpers Knee Patellar Tendinitis Treatment Recovery

What is jumpers knee? How it happens, what you can do to help it heal, and how physio can ensure the best outcome and prevent it coming back.

www.thephysiotherapyplace.com

"Once the pain and any swelling are gone, try easing back into your normal activities and hold off on more demanding athletic activities for a few weeks. Typically, tendonitis goes away in a few weeks or months."

What Is the Best Treatment for Knee Tendonitis?

Tendonitis is inflammation of the tendon. The best treatments for knee tendonitis include knee support, over-the-counter pain medications, rest, ice and other home care measures.

www.medicinenet.com

"There’s no quick fix for patellar tendinopathy. You may need a few months of rehabilitation before your symptoms go completely."

Patellar tendinopathy (jumper's knee): Symptoms and causes | Bupa UK

Repetitive, small injuries to the patellar tendon in your knee can cause patellar tendinopathy. Read more about the causes, symptoms, and self-help techniques you can use to treat it.

www.bupa.co.uk

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Something isn't adding up here.

Pettersson had tendinitis in his knee. This tendinitis was so bad that he went from being a 100 point player to a 47 point player.

Yet, the team (and himself) decided that he should play all 82 games, all 13 playoff games and fly out for the NHL All-Star game, with no rest or breaks.

When Miller, Boeser and Hronek all sat out the final road trip to Winnipeg when the Canucks had already locked up the #1 seed, Pettersson still played.

When the Canucks had already locked up a playoff spot by early March, Pettersson still played.

Tendinitis is quite literally healed with rest.

For what possible reason could there be to keep him in the lineup?

At one point, he wasn't even helping the team win games. I watched those games in full. There were a handful of games where he hurt the team more than he helped.

So we kept a guy in the lineup whose play had so significantly deteriorated that he wasn't helping the team, and he was also in pain?

Sorry but the reporters need to do a better job asking questions around this because the answers we've gotten so far are not a reasonable or satisfactory explanation.

My own personal speculation is, Petey was hurt in January, but playing for a huge contract extension, he didn't want to sit out. It is something he can play through so he want to stay in and hit 100 pts, so he has all the bargaining power in the summer after back to back 100 pt season. As a result, he downplayed his injury to the coaches and training staff. After he signed the extension (prior to his preferred timeline, mind you), it would look bad to the team and fans if he immediately sit out, so he tried to tough it out, still downplaying his injury. As a result, Tocchet had no idea he was hurting that badly, and assume he was just a little banged up like everybody else and expect Petey to play through it.

I think everybody knows he was not 100%, but maybe the coaching staff thinks he's like 90% and rest won't help, while in reality he was probably like 50%. That's why there's a disconnect in the playoff and Tocchet "called out" the passengers.

I don't know, just a theory. I don't like the alternative where the team knows their best forward was suffering from an injury and pressure him to play through it, risking his health even further, like they did to Mik.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

He told you what you wanted to hear and its your fault for believing him.

Tocc is not obligated to do anything except for protecting the players.

Relevant is below:

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Will be interesting to hear from the usual suspects on this one.

MS has done it twice with EP now.

 

[mriswith]

Again, this is a total strawman. Not once have I ever questioned the “legitimacy” of his injury.

I could literally post like 5 different quotes from you doing nothing but questioning the legitimacy of his injury when you were arguing with me that "occams razor" was that he was the biggest anomaly in league history rather than accepting that he was playing through injury.

He told you what you wanted to hear and its your fault for believing him.

Tocc is not obligated to do anything except for protecting the players.

Relevant is below:

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The argument that Tocchet wouldn't hide an injury to his key players in the middle of the playoffs was always wild to me.

Same with the argument that mgmt wouldn't let him play through significant injury after they literally did it with Mik last year in an obviously lost season with disastrous effects on this season.

 

[Hit the post]

Choosing ignorance?

Brave.

Cant be sure but easily the most common knee related tendinitis is the patellar tendon. Aka jumpers knee:

"How Long Does It Take For Jumpers Knee To Heal?​

This will depend on the degree of damage to the tendon but typically once the correct treatment has started a period of 2-3 months will allow good tissue healing and strengthening. Even if the tendon hasn’t fully healed by this stage, it should be ready to do some higher impact activity again. In some mild cases, sport can be continued whilst the tendon is being treated and it can be managed carefully without it worsening, but in more severe cases the tendon will need complete rest and could take as long as 6-9 months to fully heal."

Jumpers Knee Patellar Tendinitis Treatment Recovery

What is jumpers knee? How it happens, what you can do to help it heal, and how physio can ensure the best outcome and prevent it coming back.

www.thephysiotherapyplace.com

"Once the pain and any swelling are gone, try easing back into your normal activities and hold off on more demanding athletic activities for a few weeks. Typically, tendonitis goes away in a few weeks or months."

What Is the Best Treatment for Knee Tendonitis?

Tendonitis is inflammation of the tendon. The best treatments for knee tendonitis include knee support, over-the-counter pain medications, rest, ice and other home care measures.

www.medicinenet.com

"There’s no quick fix for patellar tendinopathy. You may need a few months of rehabilitation before your symptoms go completely."

Patellar tendinopathy (jumper's knee): Symptoms and causes | Bupa UK

Repetitive, small injuries to the patellar tendon in your knee can cause patellar tendinopathy. Read more about the causes, symptoms, and self-help techniques you can use to treat it.

www.bupa.co.uk

They (Canucks) should've shut him down for a period of time. Playoff spot really wasn't much of an issue at that point (and it's not like he's 30+ years old). He played every game this season (including allstar game). Yeah one or two games likely means ****-all but what about giving him month or two off? Based on how the Canucks medical staff has handled player injuries in the past, I'm skeptical on how the team handled things.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

They (Canucks) should've shut him down for a period of time. Playoff spot really wasn't much of an issue at that point (and it's not like he's 30+ years old). He played every game this season (including allstar game). Yeah one or two games likely means ****-all but what about giving him month or two off? Based on how the Canucks medical staff has handled player injuries in the past, I'm skeptical on how the team handled things.

Month or two off could have helped for sure.

I'm not defending the medical staff. They seem to make a ton of easy mistakes. Mikheyevs knee being the most glaring one.

But having him "skip a game or sit a week" like some are suggesting, would likely have done nothing.

The argument that Tocchet wouldn't hide an injury to his key players in the middle of the playoffs was always wild to me.

Same with the argument that mgmt wouldn't let him play through significant injury after they literally did it with Mik last year in an obviously lost season with disastrous effects on this season.

I think they are getting some really bad advice from their medical staff.
Interestingly the Canucks website now only lists 5 people on their medical staff.

If this list is accurate, they no longer employ any of the pseudo science chiropractors who they used to have multiple on the page.

 

[strattonius]

, he downplayed his injury to the coaches and training staff. After he signed the extension (prior to his preferred timeline, mind you), it would look bad to the team and fans if he immediately sit out, so he tried to tough it out, still downplaying his injury. As a result, Tocchet had no idea he was hurting that badly, and assume he was just a little banged up like everybody else and expect Petey to play through it.

I think it's some version of this.

I don't think people realize it's not as simple as 1) feel injury 2) report injury 3) fix injury.
It's likely Pettersson felt some discomfort and probably thought he could play through it. When it started to get worse he reports the injury to which there isn't enough time to fix/rest/rehab the knee before the playoffs.

I think Petey is ultimately to blame for the situation even though none of us know exactly how it went down - but I think he will learn from this experience in a positive way.

 

[sting101]

Hopefully this opens the window to LTIR this knee tendinitis thing to the tune of EP40 and Demko's contracts.............16.6 schmill baby over the cap here we come.

Guentzel Lindholm DeBrusk Zadorov Joshua Hronek raises for everybody. Surely Guentzel can play along too so we can load manage them and have him and Pettersson ready to go for the playoffs.

Guentzel off season shoulder tendinitis, then come February when he's ready to return EP40's knee flares up

Most people would be mortified that we just signed a 25yr old with chronic knee issues but not me. In crisis comes opportunity

 

[sting101]

On a more serious note...

Do we know which knee that is bummed. And so much for off season training. Gonna need to rest.

On the bright side he can relax and gain some weight on the dark that weight won't be hard muscle if he's just pounding back calories without thickening that core with power training. Wont be doing that with 2-3 months of rest for a bad knee.

Not good

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I think it's some version of this.

I don't think people realize it's not as simple as 1) feel injury 2) report injury 3) fix injury.
It's likely Pettersson felt some discomfort and probably thought he could play through it. When it started to get worse he reports the injury to which there isn't enough time to fix/rest/rehab the knee before the playoffs.

I think Petey is ultimately to blame for the situation even though none of us know exactly how it went down - but I think he will learn from this experience in a positive way.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[bossram]

When did I literally say that? I’ve been pretty consistent that I thought, on a balance of probabilities, that an injury wasn’t causing his bad play. You are creating a strawman by representing my position as being that I thought, on a balance of probability, that Pettersson didn’t have an injury. The two are clearly not the same.

It is very clearly a strawman since I never questioned the “legitimacy” of his injury when he came out and said he was injured. I questioned whether his injury caused his bad play.

I don’t doubt that it had some affect on his play, but did it cause him to go from a 100 point player to a 50 point player? And if so, and given that the injury was treatable with rest, why the hell wasn’t he sat? Again, the facts don’t add up.

Again, that isn’t my view. I believe Petey was injured and I’m sure it did affect his play. The question is to what extent.

Again, this is a total strawman. Not once have I ever questioned the “legitimacy” of his injury. I questioned the severity of it and affect it had on his play.

You're just backtracking and deflecting again. The core of your position is that you don't think Petey's injury was ever debilitating enough to explain his dip in play, before the injury was revealed, or after. That's what I'm getting at by saying you don't think it's a "legit" injury. You don't think it's a legit explanation for the dip in play. You literally just said you didn't think an injury was causing his bad play. If the injury isn't to blame, then it's a pretty accurate summary to state that you don't think the injury is very legit!

You were wrong about the original injury. You don't believe it should be an explanation for his dip in play. Just own these things and move on.

I could literally post like 5 different quotes from you doing nothing but questioning the legitimacy of his injury when you were arguing with me that "occams razor" was that he was the biggest anomaly in league history rather than accepting that he was playing through injury.

Yep. He's now backtracking and pretending he said different things before.