Peter Holland

[Mikeyg]

32 points in 82 games as first line center in 2010/2011, a little outdated and maybe even a little bit low but the guy never scored 50 points and you're slotting him in for atleast 45 - 65? who's reaching?

are you really arguing with me now that stats from 4 years ago are more relevant/likely then the ones from 2011 2012 and 2013? come on man.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I think a Bozak-Kulemin-Clarkson line would be very effective.

21-43-81
12-24-19
41-42-71
38-Bolland #?-29

Kuli is just starting to get his groove back. Wouldn't want him on a line with 2 offensive blackholes.

 

[Mikeyg]

Are you kidding me? Did you know where did J Staal play most of his career? And on which line? If you do then you know how stupid that post is

I just picked him off the top of my head because I know that he plays 2c in carolina now, there are plenty of top 6 centres in this league with around .6 ppg or lower

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It's right there

I don't undertand your riddle of a question, just explain it man. If you want me to answer accurately I want to know exactly what you are asking. I am not going to assume a question that was asked so clumsily.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Kuli is just starting to get his groove back. Wouldn't want him on a line with 2 offensive blackholes.

So sway him and Raymond.

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't undertand your riddle of a question, just explain it man. If you want me to answer accurately I want to know exactly what you are asking. I am not going to assume a question that was asked so clumsily.

Who claimed that anyone could be a PPG player playing with Kessel and JVR and what does that have to do with my post?

If you think the Leafs are a weaker team missing Bozak and Bolland how can you think it's fair to compare Bozak (when insulated with Bolland and Kadri) to Kadri (who has Smith and Holland in the 2/3 spots)?

 

[ALEXJD93]

One more time, you said Kadri was better defensively than Bozak on the Kessel/JVR line.

When everyone was salivating Kadri being put on the top line, where some said a fire hydrant could play with Kessel and JVR,

Kadri's line scores only 2 goals in 4 games last week and is on the ice for 7 goals against good solid teams.

Now I am asking you nicely, to back up your statement in light of their play last week, where as most recently as last night most will agree they were not even the top 2 lines for us in a 7-3 drubbing.

You've chosen to ignore almost all of my points, I've already stated that defense shouldn't be worried about with the 1C, Kadri is fine in his own end, he is a better passer and helps clear the zone better than bozak, as well as being more physical... Kadri is just better defensively by way of being better offensively, the more time you have in the other teams zone the less time you have to worry about defending, and again, you can't look at 4 games to prove anything with statistics, that line had 6-8 good chances against LA so that could be a very different looking number if they had got some bounces there, and the whole team played poorly against STL, you think bozak would of made a difference in that game? C'mon now

 

[leafstilldeath*]

I just picked him off the top of my head because I know that he plays 2c in carolina now, there are plenty of top 6 centres in this league with around .6 ppg or lower

yea...good argument there. J. Staal played on the Pens behind Crosby and Malkin for most of his career. and btw...

J.Staal>>>>>>>> Bozo the clown.

Name the top 6Cs who have 0.5 ppg career avg and then we can debate further. If not, I certainly see how you formulate your arguments and quite frankly it is just

 

[ALEXJD93]

are you really arguing with me now that stats from 4 years ago are more relevant/likely then the ones from 2011 2012 and 2013? come on man.

Not as if he lit it up those years? 47 career high in points man...

ON PACE FOR LESS THAN THAT LAST YEAR don't know why you think he would score 65

 

[Crispy Crust]

You've chosen to ignore almost all of my points, I've already stated that defense shouldn't be worried about with the 1C, Kadri is fine in his own end, he is a better passer and helps clear the zone better than bozak, as well as being more physical... Kadri is just better defensively by way of being better offensively, the more time you have in the other teams zone the less time you have to worry about defending, and again, you can't look at 4 games to prove anything with statistics, that line had 6-8 good chances against LA so that could be a very different looking number if they had got some bounces there, and the whole team played poorly against STL, you think bozak would of made a difference in that game? C'mon now

Top notch post sir.

 

[namttebih]

I just picked him off the top of my head because I know that he plays 2c in carolina now, there are plenty of top 6 centres in this league with around .6 ppg or lower

He's a different beast altogether though. JS creates room with his size up front and is light years better than Bozak defensively.

Most of the 2c that you talk of have far less skilled wingers and/or are way more proficient at the cycle and defensive game, Mike Richards for example.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

So sway him and Raymond.

I assume you wanted to type "switch" and I do not mind that. No chance we are able to sign

Kuli, Raymond, McClement, Bolland etc... someone has gotta go. And with the way Raymond has been producing he will be asking quite a bit and there will be plenty of takers.

Unless we unload clarkson or bozo, or even better..both of them it will be hard to retain players.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

I assume you wanted to type "swith" and I do not mind that. No chance we are able to sign

Kuli, Raymond, McClement, Bolland etc... someone has gotta go. And with the way Raymond has been producing he will be asking quite a bit and there will be plenty of takers.

Unless we unload clarkson or bozo, or even better..both of them it will be hard to retain players.

Swith, swath, sway, swap. Its all moo.

 

[Mikeyg]

yea...good argument there. J. Staal played on the Pens behind Crosby and Malkin for most of his career. and btw...

J.Staal>>>>>>>> Bozo the clown.

Name the top 6Cs who have 0.5 ppg career avg and then we can debate further. If not, I certainly see how you formulate your arguments and quite frankly it is just

Scoring is not the only aspect of top 6 play, look at florida for example, goc is/was a top 6 forward for a long long time there and he doesnt put up the numbers. It is team dependant. Bozak can be at least a number 2 c on a lot of teams, stop trying to discredit the guy

 

[Mikeyg]

Not as if he lit it up those years? 47 career high in points man...

ON PACE FOR LESS THAN THAT LAST YEAR don't know why you think he would score 65

last 3 years all fit into the range that I had said previously 45-60 or whatever I said, its good enough for this team because of the winger depth, its not a difficult concept

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Who claimed that anyone could be a PPG player playing with Kessel and JVR and what does that have to do with my post?

If you think the Leafs are a weaker team missing Bozak and Bolland how can you think it's fair to compare Bozak (when insulated with Bolland and Kadri) to Kadri (who has Smith and Holland in the 2/3 spots)?

I never said a fire hydrant could play with Kessel and JVR, this was said by other posters. Not sure where you read this. You may want to use common sense when you read my posts and know the context of the history of the Bozak naysayers saying a fire hydrant could score a PPG pace (better) than Bozak can. Again, disregarding defence counts as much as offence in hockey.

As for what you brought up in insulating Kadri, Bozak when he played his best hockey of the season back from his hamstring injury never had Bolland as insulation, certainly not against Pittsburg against Crosby when it would usually be Bolland against Crosby. We know Bozak's line head to head was +9 and scored 4 times that game against Crosby.

Now if you want to make a point, Kadri doesn't have Bolland or Bozak to insulate him, yes, I will agree, this is why I have long stated Kadri misses Bozak. He insulates him from top pairings like Doughty and Chara, and it showed this week in that line's play.

 

[ALEXJD93]

Scoring is not the only aspect of top 6 play, look at florida for example, goc is/was a top 6 forward for a long long time there and he doesnt put up the numbers. It is team dependant. Bozak can be at least a number 2 c on a lot of teams, stop trying to discredit the guy

Yeah, lets follow in the footsteps of the succesful panthers

 

[Mikeyg]

He's a different beast altogether though. JS creates room with his size up front and is light years better than Bozak defensively.

Most of the 2c that you talk of have far less skilled wingers and/or are way more proficient at the cycle and defensive game, Mike Richards for example.

Like I said, its team dependant here in Toronto, bozak is the 1c. In LA he might be a 4c, while being a 2c on other teams, it is team dependant

 

[Mikeyg]

Yeah, lets follow in the footsteps of the succesful panthers

LOL, yes, thats EXACTLY what I said, smart smart smart

 

[namttebih]

Like I said, its team dependant here in Toronto, bozak is the 1c. In LA he might be a 4c, while being a 2c on other teams, it is team dependant

Shouldn't we aim to have similar player placements to the Kings, rather than gauge our lineup relative to the Panthers?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You've chosen to ignore almost all of my points, I've already stated that defense shouldn't be worried about with the 1C, Kadri is fine in his own end, he is a better passer and helps clear the zone better than bozak, as well as being more physical... Kadri is just better defensively by way of being better offensively, the more time you have in the other teams zone the less time you have to worry about defending, and again, you can't look at 4 games to prove anything with statistics, that line had 6-8 good chances against LA so that could be a very different looking number if they had got some bounces there, and the whole team played poorly against STL, you think bozak would of made a difference in that game? C'mon now

With non-replies like this one, I wonder Why-did-I-join this forum? Not getting anywhere with getting answers of your non backed up claims here.

 

[ALEXJD93]

LOL, yes, thats EXACTLY what I said, smart smart smart

It's what you implied? Florida was a terrible team that whole stretch, and even then he didn't play on the first line, which is my argument, if you wanna put him on the second line go ahead, i'd be fine with that.

 

[namttebih]

Like I said, its team dependant here in Toronto, bozak is the 1c. In LA he might be a 4c, while being a 2c on other teams, it is team dependant

4 or 3 C on a team like LA or other contending team. 2C like a last place team like FLA. 1C on the Leafs. Good

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Scoring is not the only aspect of top 6 play, look at florida for example, goc is/was a top 6 forward for a long long time there and he doesnt put up the numbers. It is team dependant. Bozak can be at least a number 2 c on a lot of teams, stop trying to discredit the guy

Bozak is not a top 6C and will never be the top 6C on any team unless he plays on the leafs.
Bozak has never played in a top6 role with others beside Kessel. Its always Kessel. Why not put bozo on another line if he is a top6 C? lol. Even coaching staff isn't stupid enough to put him on the ice without kessel.

I am not the only one discrediting him here have a look:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1556769

You have to control for bozo fanboys on this thread and you will see. FYI have a look at post 65 on pg 3 of this thread to get a more detailed answer of why bozo is not a top 6C.

 

[Mikeyg]

Shouldn't we aim to have similar player placements to the Kings, rather than gauge our lineup relative to the Panthers?

..........................

This is NOT what I am implying at all, players would be on different lines based on being on different teams based on depth, thats all im saying