Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

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cptjeff

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Sep 18, 2008
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Washington, DC.
Nearly the exact same population as Winnipeg.

Bettman and the NHL are not interested in Quebec for a bigger set of reasons, not just population.
Winnipeg is currently struggling with the long term viability of the market in serious question. And *they* only have a team because the Thrashers were evicted from their arena and Winnipeg was literally the only ownership group ready with an arena to take the team. The NHL was very much not crazy about Winnipeg, either.
 
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TheDawnOfANewTage

Dahlin, it’ll all be fine
Dec 17, 2018
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I can still root for the Sabres and the new Utah team (please be Pioneers). Won't be an issue unless we meet in the Cup finals which seems unlikely lol.

Ya, I adopted the Sharks as a second team for a bit when I was in the area, to me that’s a totally reasonable and fun reason to add a squad to root for. Pioneers is actually really good, I’d vote for that one.
 

Space umpire

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Nov 15, 2018
3,242
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Cocoa Beach, Florida
Not one time did I ever see anyone wear Blackhawks merch or talk about the Blackhawks. Biggest fair weather fans in the US (minus Cubs fans up on north side).
Your lack of education surprises me.
Here is a bit of history.
1960’s, very early 70’s great crowds, that ends when Hull leaves over 15k a year.
Late 80’s crowds (different generations) are returning.
Mid 90’s, good team, so close. Bill Wirtz promises adding 2 top UFA’s. They sign Gilmour but he is pissed at the cost and refuses to talk to Brett Hull (who wanted to play there).
Again the place is empty.
If you research it, the fans started returning before the team got good in the 2000’s. They returned when Bill Wirtz died and Rocky took over.
 

Transplanted Caper

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You can count on one hand the number of markets who could sustain the kind of turmoil Arizona has without huge attendance issues. Now, some of it was self-inflicted with arena location choices and shoddy ownership, but people only have so much disposable income, and they likely don't want to throw it on a tire fire of a team, and that has nothing to do with passion or love of the game. No team is entitled to people's money. It does show the peril of a strip it to the bolts, rebuilds. Because bugger up a lottery ticket or two and you start taking on water,
 

BLNY

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Aug 3, 2004
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Dartmouth, NS
They would be morons to give up on the market. It's way too large of a market to ignore, especially when they've spent decades building it as a hockey market.

They will give up on the Coyotes, but if and when the arena situation is resolved, the NHL will absolutely return to the Phoenix area, it would idiotic not too.
No one questions the size of the city and surrounding areas. People question the size of the actual "hockey market". I think if you absolutely have to have an arena in a specific part of town to get people to go, you start behind the 8-ball.

It would appear the city/state aren't interested in subsidizing the cost of a venue. Don't blame them. It's a con. Maybe if they get a stable owner willing to fund purchase of a team and building a venue, they'll be able to bring Mohammad to the mountain. Wherever it is.
 

Mr Positive

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Nov 20, 2013
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Change "Utah" to Winnipeg and "Phoenix" to "Atlanta" and see how that went down. It will very likely work the same way here, with a nuance that the team changes owners in a 2-step process.


And then we're asking why it's a 2-step process, but I suspect that has something to do with money Meruelo may owe the league and the league guaranteeing it gets its money, and/or some requirement that Meruelo can't sell the team to someone intending to relocate it, he has to sell it to the league first. But, I also suspect the reasons why it's a 2-step process at some point in the not-too-distant future.
Friedman was one the saying that league was talking about going down this unconventional path. It's basically the Coyotes losing its players while still existing in some kind of limbo, in Arizona. I suppose the point is that the NHL still has a high priority on the Phoenix area and perhaps want the owners to stick around
 

majormajor

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Jun 23, 2018
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Winnipeg is currently struggling with the long term viability of the market in serious question. And *they* only have a team because the Thrashers were evicted from their arena and Winnipeg was literally the only ownership group ready with an arena to take the team. The NHL was very much not crazy about Winnipeg, either.

Winnipeg's financial losses (if there are any, a lot of revenue being tossed around especially with expansion) are chump change for their ownership group. That gets back to the point regarding Quebec, the league isn't going to a market like that unless there is an owner with many billions to spare.
 
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Transplanted Caper

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The Jets have enough money behind them to take hits during downturns - or even through something unique as COVID and the fallout from it, but it does show the challenges small markets face. When disposable income doesn't go as far as it used to, and fewer people can buy tickets, a smaller universe of customers to draw from becomes a liability. Can Quebec City work as a market? Yeah, there's a way it can, but it needs big, stable, money behind it, a good local TV deal with the French media, and a way to find sustained success on the ice to make up for any challenges they may have in retaining and attracting players. The reality is you can have the most passionate, committed fans, in the world and it's only a small piece of the pie in making professional sports work in 2024.
 

shello

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You know, I feel bad for the fans and all but finally. They've had 30 years to figure this out and they were clearly never a priority for the state or cities they played in. They had a hell of a lot more chances than most cities could dream of
 
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serp

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Jan 17, 2016
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The Jets have enough money behind them to take hits during downturns - or even through something unique as COVID and the fallout from it, but it does show the challenges small markets face. When disposable income doesn't go as far as it used to, and fewer people can buy tickets, a smaller universe of customers to draw from becomes a liability. Can Quebec City work as a market? Yeah, there's a way it can, but it needs big, stable, money behind it, a good local TV deal with the French media, and a way to find sustained success on the ice to make up for any challenges they may have in retaining and attracting players. The reality is you can have the most passionate, committed fans, in the world and it's only a small piece of the pie in making professional sports work in 2024.

I think alot of also has to do with how gate driven the NHL still is compared to other sports. I know different sport and different countries/continents and all that but i look at season tickets for like Bayern Munich for example and compare it to NHL games and it's just mindboggling how much NHL tickets cost in comparison.

I don't think any of the bigger soccer clubs lost money during COVID restrictions playing without / with less fans.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Your lack of education surprises me.
Here is a bit of history.
1960’s, very early 70’s great crowds, that ends when Hull leaves over 15k a year.
Late 80’s crowds (different generations) are returning.
Mid 90’s, good team, so close. Bill Wirtz promises adding 2 top UFA’s. They sign Gilmour but he is pissed at the cost and refuses to talk to Brett Hull (who wanted to play there).
Again the place is empty.
If you research it, the fans started returning before the team got good in the 2000’s. They returned when Bill Wirtz died and Rocky took over.
The Black Hawks were competitive and popular still for a couple of years after Hull's departure though. The team only became mediocre after 1974, simultaneously the Bulls were becoming fairly established in the same building and there was even a WHA team with cheaper tickets in town for a couple of years, even if Peter Pan did them dirty just when the Black Hawks were starting to suck.
 
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