Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

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TheDoldrums

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May 3, 2016
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Newcastle, Ontario
What do you think is going on in Winnipeg? They had a decade of sellouts and an owner who is one of the richest people in the world. Gary Bettman himself said that there's no concern about the Winnipeg Jets so why would you think that the league is? Did you even watch the press conference that Bettman and Daly held in Winnipeg? If not, you should stop writing about things you have no effing idea about.

How many public statements did the league make in support of Arizona? Those mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Sagging attendance during a great season, a relatively tiny market, Canadian economic uncertainty…I certainly don’t think anything will happen anytime soon but if you had to pick a franchise most likely to relocate they would be near the top.
 

Howboutthempanthers

Thread killer.
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Unfortunately Arizona has had the problem that most teams can't afford, subpar ownership. That's the one fix that had/has to happen for this franchise to be successful (just like most franchises).
 
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Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,836
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Could be in 2 years when Tanenbaum sells his remaining shares, TSN takes one team and Roger’s the other team.
IIRC Buffalo also claims a portion of the market that would include Hamilton. So I think a second GTA team if it's around that area would still get vetoed.
 
Dec 15, 2002
29,289
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What happened in Arizona will be Bettman's legacy
Everything bad that's ever happened in the NHL will be Bettman's legacy, according to some people. This, Atlanta, Hartford, Winnipeg I, Quebec City, 2 lockouts, the lost 2004-05 season, ... all of it.

for how quickly this came down--either Bettman had to much pressure from the NHLPA or Ownershio group or Bettman believes that the current owner may not be as trust worthy as he wanted with his plans and promises.
Or, Bettman was behind the scenes applying pressure to Meruelo to get his shit together or get out and trying to facilitate a sale while avoiding having things with the Coyotes spill into a courtroom (again) and was finally able to get things done in the last handful of days.

The Board of Governors could have shut this down 2 years ago, when Meruelo first proposed going to ASU. It didn't. You have to ask yourself why it didn't - and no, Bettman wanted isn't that reason. Pressure from the NHLPA means shit: the NHLPA it also could have shut this down 2 years ago. Instead, it signed off on going to ASU; if it's unhappy after the fact and wants to cry about lost revenues and whatever else, that's its problem.

I think Bettman let it be known at the ASG, without saying it out loud, that he didn't trust Meruelo. That still didn't mean he could go in and unilaterally yank the franchise charter. As I've said before: Bettman follows process, because he understands the consequences of not doing so. We all may hate it, but saying there's rules we follow, here they are and then one day up and deciding yeah, these rules - they're advisory, we can ignore them if they're inconvenient is how leagues get sued when a team gets relocated and end up having to settle for $790 million. [Hypothetically speaking, of course.]
 
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crump

~ ~ (ړײ) ~ ~
Feb 26, 2004
15,155
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Ontariariario
10 OF THE WEIRDEST LAWS IN UTAH

NO CATASTROPHES

According to the criminal code, a catastrophe entails a “use of a weapon of mass destruction or explosion, fire, flood, avalanche, collapse of a building or other harmful or destructive force or substance that is not a weapon of mass destruction.”

I’m glad they clarified that. Maybe add “Sports franchise.”

NO SNOWBALLS

Um we’re going to need to talk with the Zamboni driver on this one

NO RIDING BIKES WITHOUT HANDS

Hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO SWEARING, LADIES

Definitely one of the most controversial, women can’t use profane words in Logan without risking a fine of some sort. Equally contentious is how a husband is responsible for every crime his wife commits in his presence.

Get it out of your system now GF and wives.

NO CONVENIENCE STORES AFTER DARK WITHOUT ID

People must present identification to enter a convenience store after dark in Kaysville, Utah. This also reinforces the facts that alcoholic beverages can't be stronger than 3.2 percent nor can individuals possess beer containers larger than two liters. Retailers are the only exception.

Trade me NOW

NO GUNPOWDER TO REMEDY HEADACHES

Who would've thought that pharmacists once prescribed gunpowder to cure headaches in Utah! At least this is prohibited in Trout Creek, so be sure to bring along plenty of alternatives like Tylenol and Aspirin just in case.

Again, hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO THROWING MISSILES AT BUSES

Another no-brainer, Utah wants to emphasize the criminality of hurling missiles at buses in code 76-10-1505 by making it a third-degree felony… yet law enforcement is exempt as long as it's within the scope of their job.

Better hope the bus ride to the airport doesn’t go by a fans house.

NO DETONATING NUCLEAR WEAPONS

Along those lines of strange and unusual laws, there shall be no detonation of nuclear weapons. Hobbyists can have all the nuclear weapons they want but essentially can’t use them.

As long as they don’t detonate I’m ok with this one.

NO BITING IN BOXING

Based on code 76-9-705. With this comes no striking of Adam's apple, groin, eyes, and temple of the head, either.

I can think of a few players to be banned from Utah

NO COMPLAINING ABOUT MILK

As far as the interpretation of the criminal code goes, Utah says it’s illegal for milk consumers to “unfairly discriminate” against milk distributors and criticize the grade or quality.

The Milkman can’t be traded to Utah.
 
Dec 15, 2002
29,289
8,727
I wonder if this signals the NHL is more open to relocation.
No, because relocation is only used as a last resort and when leagues start moving teams it signals the league is on shaky ground. The last thing any league wants is to "fix" a problem franchise via relocation, have it weaken another franchise and the solution there is "relocate it, too."
Anyways, I feel bad for Phoenix fans, but the writing had been on the wall for what seemed like 15 years.
Agreed. I said back when Balsillie and Rodier convinced Moyes to put the team in bankruptcy that I thought the well had been irrevocably poisoned but it was going to take years to play out.

It shouldve been over a decade ago but for some reason got dragged out like this.
If you read any of the 68,886 threads about the Coyotes, somewhere in there someone - maybe even me - will have explained why the NHL stepped in to keep the Coyotes in Phoenix and how the team stayed there after.

If you can't find any of those posts, I'm happy to provide (yet another) recap.
 

shenmue16

Registered User
Apr 19, 2023
52
80
Not only did they never have a stable arena or ownership situation, the team was literally never good. Downtown Phoenix arena + competitive team = successful franchise which is why the NHL will definitely try again.
Yeah, maybe it's a good move if you can:
a. garner enough financial/political support from local leadership in Phoenix to support a new arena being built (the actually successful Phoenix-based franchise being unable to do so).
b. convince the citizens of a city where local spending is tightly controlled and limited to suddenly vote in favor of a new arena.
c. find a revenue stream for the team and make it a viable business (even the NHL couldn't do this when they owned the Yotes).
d. convince the league that this same ownership group is viable of running said team when they couldn't get this done in the first place.
e. justify Phoenix expansion to every other owner, while competing with every other proven major ownership group who is angling for their own franchise;.
f. hope that you miraculously avoid the expansion franchise pitfall and draft good players, which requires paying a group of employees before earning even a single dollar from ticket sales
It's not going to happen, it shouldn't happen. Phoenix is not a viable market, we've just seen 28 years of this myth being peddled.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,079
13,476
IIRC Buffalo also claims a portion of the market that would include Hamilton. So I think a second GTA team if it's around that area would still get vetoed.
It would be in Markham area. TSN and Roger’s agree, that each get one team.
 

State of Hockey

Registered User
Oct 9, 2006
13,358
778
As someone from a state that should never have had to face NHL relocation and yet still got shafted, I don't feel much pity for Coyotes fans, especially after all these years of failure and when there's already talk of a return in the future. Instead I'm excited to see what Salt Lake City can do. This could be a real hit.
 
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SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
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Jun 13, 2010
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I meant lack of team in Arizona is likely temporary, as next expansion team will now surely come from there and Atlanta.
I've said for a while that the best overall solution might be to relocate the current Coyotes, then expand back to Arizona once they have the facilities and the support.
 

Zerotonine

Registered User
Apr 23, 2017
5,293
5,232
So if im understanding this correctly. The nhl purchased the coyotes and then are turning around and selling it to the Utah group???

Really curious to know the actual numbers and how much the nhl is making off this deal. Is there a transfer fee like there would b an expansion fee?

So the other owners get a pay our like they did with Seattle and Vegas???

Man the nhl has made a shit ton of money the last few years and the cap is still shit the last few years
 
Dec 15, 2002
29,289
8,727
How many public statements did the league make in support of Arizona? Those mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Had Gary Bettman stepped in front of a microphone at any point in the last 5 years and said "I don't have faith in Arizona to support a franchise, things are looking really shaky at the moment, if it doesn't improve we'll have to explore other options" it would have been an instant signal to people in Phoenix, do not bother getting invested, the team is on the way out. It would have made the franchise far more unstable and hastened its demise, and without a backup plan in place it would have left everyone scrambling.

And, it likely would have given Meruelo grounds to sue Bettman and the league for damaging his product. The damages would be quite notable, and Bettman would be shit-canned for costing all the other owners tens of millions of dollars for a reckless remark.
 

Llewzaher

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
4,814
2,323
North America
10 OF THE WEIRDEST LAWS IN UTAH

NO CATASTROPHES

According to the criminal code, a catastrophe entails a “use of a weapon of mass destruction or explosion, fire, flood, avalanche, collapse of a building or other harmful or destructive force or substance that is not a weapon of mass destruction.”

I’m glad they clarified that. Maybe add “Sports franchise.”

NO SNOWBALLS

Um we’re going to need to talk with the Zamboni driver on this one

NO RIDING BIKES WITHOUT HANDS

Hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO SWEARING, LADIES

Definitely one of the most controversial, women can’t use profane words in Logan without risking a fine of some sort. Equally contentious is how a husband is responsible for every crime his wife commits in his presence.

Get it out of your system now GF and wives.

NO CONVENIENCE STORES AFTER DARK WITHOUT ID

People must present identification to enter a convenience store after dark in Kaysville, Utah. This also reinforces the facts that alcoholic beverages can't be stronger than 3.2 percent nor can individuals possess beer containers larger than two liters. Retailers are the only exception.

Trade me NOW

NO GUNPOWDER TO REMEDY HEADACHES

Who would've thought that pharmacists once prescribed gunpowder to cure headaches in Utah! At least this is prohibited in Trout Creek, so be sure to bring along plenty of alternatives like Tylenol and Aspirin just in case.

Again, hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO THROWING MISSILES AT BUSES

Another no-brainer, Utah wants to emphasize the criminality of hurling missiles at buses in code 76-10-1505 by making it a third-degree felony… yet law enforcement is exempt as long as it's within the scope of their job.

Better hope the bus ride to the airport doesn’t go by a fans house.

NO DETONATING NUCLEAR WEAPONS

Along those lines of strange and unusual laws, there shall be no detonation of nuclear weapons. Hobbyists can have all the nuclear weapons they want but essentially can’t use them.

As long as they don’t detonate I’m ok with this one.

NO BITING IN BOXING

Based on code 76-9-705. With this comes no striking of Adam's apple, groin, eyes, and temple of the head, either.

I can think of a few players to be banned from Utah

NO COMPLAINING ABOUT MILK

As far as the interpretation of the criminal code goes, Utah says it’s illegal for milk consumers to “unfairly discriminate” against milk distributors and criticize the grade or quality.

The Milkman can’t be traded to Utah.
The Salt Lake City Milkmen
 
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Dec 15, 2002
29,289
8,727
Man the nhl has made a shit ton of money the last few years and the cap is still shit the last few years
The cap is "still shit" because the players demanded to be paid in full for 2019-20 and 2020-21 and have escrow caps in place, which grossly overpaid them on the 50/50 split and left a massive escrow debt that they had to pay off before the cap could go up again. And, declining escrow caps meant it took longer to pay that escrow debt off.

And, my long-held suspicion is that with the cap going up for '24-25 and an escrow cap of 6% the players will land back in Escrow Debt Hell, but it will get worse and they'll go into the end of this CBA owing a crapload of money.

But, that's a discussion for a couple of years from now.
 
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Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,079
13,476
10 OF THE WEIRDEST LAWS IN UTAH

NO CATASTROPHES

According to the criminal code, a catastrophe entails a “use of a weapon of mass destruction or explosion, fire, flood, avalanche, collapse of a building or other harmful or destructive force or substance that is not a weapon of mass destruction.”

I’m glad they clarified that. Maybe add “Sports franchise.”

NO SNOWBALLS

Um we’re going to need to talk with the Zamboni driver on this one

NO RIDING BIKES WITHOUT HANDS

Hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO SWEARING, LADIES

Definitely one of the most controversial, women can’t use profane words in Logan without risking a fine of some sort. Equally contentious is how a husband is responsible for every crime his wife commits in his presence.

Get it out of your system now GF and wives.

NO CONVENIENCE STORES AFTER DARK WITHOUT ID

People must present identification to enter a convenience store after dark in Kaysville, Utah. This also reinforces the facts that alcoholic beverages can't be stronger than 3.2 percent nor can individuals possess beer containers larger than two liters. Retailers are the only exception.

Trade me NOW

NO GUNPOWDER TO REMEDY HEADACHES

Who would've thought that pharmacists once prescribed gunpowder to cure headaches in Utah! At least this is prohibited in Trout Creek, so be sure to bring along plenty of alternatives like Tylenol and Aspirin just in case.

Again, hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO THROWING MISSILES AT BUSES

Another no-brainer, Utah wants to emphasize the criminality of hurling missiles at buses in code 76-10-1505 by making it a third-degree felony… yet law enforcement is exempt as long as it's within the scope of their job.

Better hope the bus ride to the airport doesn’t go by a fans house.

NO DETONATING NUCLEAR WEAPONS

Along those lines of strange and unusual laws, there shall be no detonation of nuclear weapons. Hobbyists can have all the nuclear weapons they want but essentially can’t use them.

As long as they don’t detonate I’m ok with this one.

NO BITING IN BOXING

Based on code 76-9-705. With this comes no striking of Adam's apple, groin, eyes, and temple of the head, either.

I can think of a few players to be banned from Utah

NO COMPLAINING ABOUT MILK

As far as the interpretation of the criminal code goes, Utah says it’s illegal for milk consumers to “unfairly discriminate” against milk distributors and criticize the grade or quality.

The Milkman can’t be traded to Utah.
3.2% changed to 5% in 2019 for beer, must be an old list.
 
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Edenjung

Registered User
Jun 7, 2018
2,883
2,861
I've said for a while that the best overall solution might be to relocate the current Coyotes, then expand back to Arizona once they have the facilities and the support.
Question is, why would anybody build an arena if they are not sure to get a franchise?
To end up like Quebec? And Quebec has the fortune that they use that place for a lot of other stuff and don't really have competitition in town for events.
In AZ you would have 2 other places that are competition for events. Glendale and Footrpint.
So why build something if you don't know for certain that you will use it.

It would be a huge gamble.
 

Louie the Blue

Because it's a trap
Jul 27, 2010
4,853
3,182
How many public statements did the league make in support of Arizona? Those mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Sagging attendance during a great season, a relatively tiny market, Canadian economic uncertainty…I certainly don’t think anything will happen anytime soon but if you had to pick a franchise most likely to relocate they would be near the top.
Winnipeg has ownership that is competent and capable enough of covering the costs to operate a NHL team.

The Coyotes, for almost their entire existence in Arizona, have not had competent ownership that’s been able to cover the expenses of operating a NHL team.

It’s comparing apples to oranges.

And fan support in both areas are not a problem.
 

Mr Positive

Cap Crunch Incoming
Nov 20, 2013
38,012
18,947
It sounds like Utah isn't buying the Coyotes but instead just buying up their player contracts. The Coyotes will be "inactive"

So does that mean that Utah is an expansion franchise? So would the new Coyotes have to re-enter as an expansion franchise? Do they both have to pay the franchise fee? My interpretation is that Utah would pay but the new Phoenix Coyotes would not.
 

Golden_Jet

Registered User
Sep 21, 2005
26,079
13,476
How many public statements did the league make in support of Arizona? Those mean nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Sagging attendance during a great season, a relatively tiny market, Canadian economic uncertainty…I certainly don’t think anything will happen anytime soon but if you had to pick a franchise most likely to relocate they would be near the top.
Winnipeg has the richest financial backing in the NHL, they should be OK.
 

Mickey Marner

Registered User
Jul 9, 2014
19,891
21,755
Dystopia
10 OF THE WEIRDEST LAWS IN UTAH

NO CATASTROPHES

According to the criminal code, a catastrophe entails a “use of a weapon of mass destruction or explosion, fire, flood, avalanche, collapse of a building or other harmful or destructive force or substance that is not a weapon of mass destruction.”

I’m glad they clarified that. Maybe add “Sports franchise.”

NO SNOWBALLS

Um we’re going to need to talk with the Zamboni driver on this one

NO RIDING BIKES WITHOUT HANDS

Hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO SWEARING, LADIES

Definitely one of the most controversial, women can’t use profane words in Logan without risking a fine of some sort. Equally contentious is how a husband is responsible for every crime his wife commits in his presence.

Get it out of your system now GF and wives.

NO CONVENIENCE STORES AFTER DARK WITHOUT ID

People must present identification to enter a convenience store after dark in Kaysville, Utah. This also reinforces the facts that alcoholic beverages can't be stronger than 3.2 percent nor can individuals possess beer containers larger than two liters. Retailers are the only exception.

Trade me NOW

NO GUNPOWDER TO REMEDY HEADACHES

Who would've thought that pharmacists once prescribed gunpowder to cure headaches in Utah! At least this is prohibited in Trout Creek, so be sure to bring along plenty of alternatives like Tylenol and Aspirin just in case.

Again, hockey players don’t do dumb stuff like this.

NO THROWING MISSILES AT BUSES

Another no-brainer, Utah wants to emphasize the criminality of hurling missiles at buses in code 76-10-1505 by making it a third-degree felony… yet law enforcement is exempt as long as it's within the scope of their job.

Better hope the bus ride to the airport doesn’t go by a fans house.

NO DETONATING NUCLEAR WEAPONS

Along those lines of strange and unusual laws, there shall be no detonation of nuclear weapons. Hobbyists can have all the nuclear weapons they want but essentially can’t use them.

As long as they don’t detonate I’m ok with this one.

NO BITING IN BOXING

Based on code 76-9-705. With this comes no striking of Adam's apple, groin, eyes, and temple of the head, either.

I can think of a few players to be banned from Utah

NO COMPLAINING ABOUT MILK

As far as the interpretation of the criminal code goes, Utah says it’s illegal for milk consumers to “unfairly discriminate” against milk distributors and criticize the grade or quality.

The Milkman can’t be traded to Utah.
I love hokey, antiquated laws like these. In South Carolina it's legal to fire a missile with a permit from the Aeronautics Division, otherwise it's a $100 fine.
 
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