Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[biturbo19]

You can try to twist it all you want, but the reality is that Quebec City has the economy of a tiny city in the United States. That's why the NHL has no interest in going back to Quebec City.

Quebec City's has the same population and a smaller economy than Dayton, Ohio. I'd bet a majority of people on here have never even heard of Dayton, Ohio.

I mean, this is just patently untrue.

Dayton proper is not even a quarter the size of Quebec City. lol. In terms of economy, it punches above it's weight class because of connections with defense contractors and the aviation industry, and a massive air force base presence. But that's still not necessarily a relevant comparison to Quebec City in terms of locally supporting a team with ticket sales, etc.

It's also not taking into account that Quebec City is effectively the "hub" for the rest of Quebec anywhere outside Montreal or the Ottawa/Gatineau area. It would have significant draw in the rest of the second most populous province in Canada.



But this whole argument is stupid, because it really doesn't have much to do with the ability to locally support a team and fill a building. Quebec City would do that easily. The same way somewhere like Winnipeg generally does. The real issue is the TV rights, which add practically nothing to the NHL. As it's basically a zero sum proposition that would largely just be borrowing fans from the Habs and other teams...fans who are already watching tons of hockey anyway. It'd just be divvying up the same pie differently...rather than adding more pie to the equation with "new fans".

 

[paulmm3]

Awesome. I'm in Salt Lake about 25min from where they're relocating to and excited.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dayton is not even a quarter the size of Quebec City. lol. In terms of economy, it punches above it's weight class because of connections with defense contractors and the aviation industry, and a massive air force base presence. But that's still not necessarily a relevant comparison to Quebec City in terms of locally supporting a team with ticket sales, etc.

Was talking Dayton's metro population, not just the Dayton city.

Dayton's metro population is 815k with a GDP of $41 billion.

 

[Aphid]

I have a feeling that his whole "buy land to build an arena" idea is a farce that he doesn't intend to follow through on. The NHL will award him rights to the Coyotes name and a Phoenix team as a part of the sale, but I bet he tries to sell it to someone else that actually wants to bring the Coyotes back.

Seems more and more that is the correct assumption as this current owner appears to be a big time grifter. The NHL will welcome the new potential owner with open arms because they can get rid of the current one entirely like they want to but can't right now.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

It applies to Quebec and any other small or midsize regional city. The Green Bay model only works for sports where games are rare special events, which is really just football.

Quebec City isn't getting an NHL team. It's just not big enough. Get over it.

I am not getting over it because people always say the same thing without having any background of the City and the appeal to the population.

Do I believe the Quebec team will be one of the most profitable, hell nah! but people claiming it would fail and that the market is too small are talking non sense, the fans adore hockey and hate Montreal, they will be behind the team 100% and will draw huge numbers.

 

[JPeeper]

Finally the miserable failed experiment is over. Scientists/researches wish they could get 2 decades+ worth of funding for nothing but failure.

 

[hockey20000]

is utah gonna build a 16-18k arena? i mean 11-12k doesn't sound like it work longterm

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Very few people are travelling long distances for the NHL are the type of customers that are the lifeblood of NHL teams. NHL teams rely heavily on season ticket holders to be in the green. People aren't travelling from over an hour for 41 games a year.

How many season ticket holder do you need exactly? 30k? not even... The fans from other city will travel to go watch maybe 4 or 5 games per year, it's already happening in Montreal with fans from other cities coming to watch 1 or 2 games per year.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Can't wait for this to all be over so the rumors of winnipeg moving to Phoenix can start.

 

[cptjeff]

I am not getting over it because people always say the same thing without having any background of the City and the appeal to the population.

Do I believe the Quebec team will be one of the most profitable, hell nah! but people claiming it would fail and that the market is too small are talking non sense, the fans adore hockey and hate Montreal, they will be behind the team 100% and will draw huge numbers.

They'd travel from far and wide for the games against Montreal, but for the other 39 you have to fill the building with people who live in the immediate area. They couldn't do that at 1995 prices, let alone 2025 prices. Tickets to NHL games have far, far outpaced inflation.

It might be what passes for a large market in Canada. But it is not a large market when put up against others in North America. Compared to all of the markets in North America, it is tiny, and you can't get around that.

 

[93LEAFS]

How many season ticket holder do you need exactly? 30,000k? not even... The fans from other city will travel to go watch maybe 4 or 5 games per year, it's already happening in Montreal with fans from other cities coming to watch 1 or 2 games per year.

The question is, at what price can you sell the seasons tickets. The more people generally equals higher demand, which therefore means you can charge more per seat.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Title updated per latest news:

Arizona Coyotes players told team is moving to Utah

The Arizona Coyotes' move to Utah is inching closer to becoming official.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[93LEAFS]

They'd travel from far and wide for the games against Montreal, but for the other 80 you have to fill the building with people who live in the immediate area. They couldn't do that at 1995 prices, let alone 2025 prices. Tickets to NHL games have far, far outpaced inflation.

It might be what passes for a large market in Canada. But it is not a large market when put up against others in North America. Compared to all of the markets in North America, it is tiny, and you can't get around that.

Canada really only has 2 markets that would be large by American standards (Toronto and Montreal), with Vancouver/Lower Mainland sort of on the fringe (it's like a Seattle/Denver sized market, so it depends if you classify that as large). Golden Horseshoe is the only one that really compares to the markets below the NYC/LA tier (DMV, Boston/New England, Bay Area, Chicagoland, Houston, Dallas-Fortworth Metroplex, South Florida, Atlanta, etc)

 

[biturbo19]

Was talking Dayton's metro population, not just the Dayton city.

Dayton's metro population is 815k with a GDP of $41 billion.

I mean, you can start doing that with Quebec City too, if you just go ahead and start expanding to the cities "sphere of influence".

Dayton metro is basically just an Air Force and aerospace contractor hub. Actual Dayton is poor as heck. Average household income is less than $30K? There's some massive distortion in that example due to massive government contracts and certain extremely wealthy companies and individuals, as well as a massive military presence in the vaguely surrounding area.

For all intents and purposes, what you're talking about there would be akin to looking at the "rest of Quebec outside Montreal" as the Nordiques market. But again...not really the point. The population and wealth of people in Quebec City is not the reason it isn't an attractive market. That's where it would be a stable and "viable" market for sure...but not a lucrative one. That's why the NHL continues to keep that in their back pocket as an option, but won't ever go there unless they end up in a crisis with an untenable franchise and nowhere else ready to go.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Can't wait for this to all be over so the rumors of winnipeg moving to Phoenix can start.

It's going to happen, you just know it.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Quebec City is the same size as Winnipeg while QC would have to contend with the Habs for fans. That's why Quebec City continues to get overlooked for teams.

It's the same reason that Hartford is never going to get another NHL team. Hartford can't contend with the Bruins and Rangers.

Quebec City is mainly Bruins fans tho. They don't like the Habs

 

[Aphid]

I am not getting over it because people always say the same thing without having any background of the City and the appeal to the population.

Do I believe the Quebec team will be one of the most profitable, hell nah! but people claiming it would fail and that the market is too small are talking non sense, the fans adore hockey and hate Montreal, they will be behind the team 100% and will draw huge numbers.

You're probably right but this board loves to crap on other fan bases and wants them to fail or claim they won't work because they get some glee from it.

I feel the reason the NHL came back to Winnipeg, which would be comparable size, is that they really like their owners and wanted them in league (Chipman/Thomson). They like this Ryan Smith buy from Utah and want him in their club. Maybe they have something against the Quebec guy and don't want him and that's mainly the reason for it.

If the NHL wants you in their owners club, they'll find a way to bring you in.

 

[Xirik]

Poor Betman, Probably feels like John Hammond when he looked back once more before leaving Jurassic park.

 

[bauer]

Can't wait for this to all be over so the rumors of winnipeg moving to Phoenix can start.

Winnipeg’s gonna move to Houston.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

My sincere condolences to the Coyotes fanbase that has stayed loyal through this catastrophe, and continued to show up to support your team. It was so unfortunate seeing a long line of mediocre owners and management that ran your team with no regard for the product, or you, the fans that made hockey in the desert possible. You deserved so much better.

 

[Heldig]

I wonder how all those LTIR contracts are going to work for them, like Weber's.

Do some reading first before commenting. Weber is the ONLY LTIR on the roster next year and then he is off.

There are a lot of reasons to slag on the franchise without being lazy and wrong.

 

[SI90]

Utah full time or temporary ? That’s gotta be rough on families and for free agency.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Do some reading first before commenting. Weber is the ONLY LTIR on the roster next year and then he is off.

View attachment 850807

There are a lot of reasons to slag on the franchise without being lazy and wrong.

How the hell was that slagging the franchise? It was an honest question.

My, the victim-complex.

 

[biturbo19]

is utah gonna build a 16-18k arena? i mean 11-12k doesn't sound like it work longterm

I mean, i'd imagine that they do have plans that are tied in with their Olympic bid. I'd assume that's part of this equation anyway. To have a new arena coming...which can help offset costs both ways by having a new "anchor tenant" so it's not just building a massive expensive new arena venue mostly just for the Olympics. It let's you split costs multiple ways between the Olympics/NHL Team/NBA Team.

But i think a lot of people really overestimate how critical gate revenues are in the NHL. It's broadly ~30-35% of total revenue in the league. And even that part is driven pretty heavily by certain extremely high ticket price magnets.

For most teams, it's all the other revenue streams that really drive the bus. Butts in seats are the easily observable sign of a thriving/struggling franchise for other fans to see. But it doesn't always necessarily properly reflect the financial health and viability of the market as a whole.

 

[Heldig]

How the hell was that slagging the franchise? It was an honest question.

My, the victim-complex.

It sure seemed like an honest question.