Per Friedman: Coyotes players told team moving to Utah starting next season (Mod warning post #50)

[viper0220]

When do you think we will hear more.

 

[UncleBlackie]

When do you think we will hear more.

Next week

 

[Warden of the North]

Why? The Coyotes playing in Phoenix doesn’t have any effect on the Leafs, or any other team’s performance. Why should fans be happy?

Reduction in HRR.

 

[Warden of the North]

Let's distinguish a lot of stuff in this sentence.

Did the Coyotes cost the league money? Yeah, they did. At least $112 million.

Did the league get some of it back? Reportedly yes. Maybe not all of it. Doesn't matter; part of the "cost" was the league protecting its interests re: ownership and relocation when a team goes into bankruptcy. That was worth every penny spent.

Did it "cost the players money?" No, they got every contractually obligated penny (pursuant to the terms of the CBA) they were due.

Did it cost the players potential money? Sure. But I'm sure that can be said about a number of teams that don't do everything to maximize revenues / take actions to cause revenues to fall short of where they "should" be.

Do the players have any claim to that lost money? NO. The players have no "right to all the possible money they can get" which somehow implies some "right to force teams to maximize revenues for the players' benefit." Just like the players have no right to force a team to play in any location, be competitive to whatever level, ... anything that has to do with how a team operates beyond whatever rights the league grants the NHLPA.


Owe money to the league? Sure, and that will happen. The league will make sure it gets repaid whatever it's currently owed.

To the players, other teams, for "lost money" or "inability to spend more money?"

Thanks, you proved my point.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Reduction in HRR.

I Googled HRR and the first thing that popped up:

The league is projected to bring in record revenues from the 2021-22 season, likely around $5.3 billion, if not higher, according to NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman when hockey-related revenue (HRR) is officially tabulated.

I think the billionaire-owned teams have been just fine.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Thanks, you proved my point.

I'm pretty sure I didn't really prove it, and that I could further elaborate on it to show that no matter what some team is always costing the league and the players money in some way, especially since high-revenue teams are perfectly content with lower HRR since it means more profit for them, but ... OK, whatever.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm pretty sure I didn't really prove it, and that I could further elaborate on it to show that no matter what some team is always costing the league and the players money in some way, especially since high-revenue teams are perfectly content with lower HRR since it means more profit for them, but ... OK, whatever.

I like your posts Ted but let's let this one go. Southern bashing is one thing. An owner stiffing people on bills is a reputational risk for the league and the other owners. Merulo is a scam artist and his behaviour makes the NHL look like a garage league.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

There's so much to respond to, but I'm going right after one point:

A Coyotes dispersal draft

Let's kill this idea right here. There's not going to be a dispersal draft. Smyth and SLC aren't paying $1.3 billion for the rights to a franchise that can be relocated, then watch young guys like Clayton Keller, Mattias Maccelli, Logan Cooley, Sean Durzi, Dylan Kuenther, et. al. get shipped out to whoever wants to pluck them, then have to rebuild a roster from whatever scraps the rest of the league is leaving them. Even an attempt to do some hybrid Minnesota / San Jose thing from 1991 isn't happening, because the rest of the teams in the league aren't going to be told "pick from whatever scraps SLC doesn't want" and "now expose some guys that will make SLC better."

I like your posts Ted but let's let this one go. Southern bashing is one thing. An owner stiffing people on bills is a reputational risk for the league and the other owners. Merulo is a scam artist and his behaviour makes the NHL look like a garage league.

What's to let go? Meruelo may be a total douchebag and the NHL may have had to pony up money to cover his ass, and it might have lost money on saving the team back in 2009-12, but it's going to recoup money lent to Meruelo in any sale one way or another. I ... pretty explicitly stated that.

The fact that Meruelo has as much sense running a hockey team as the average garden slug doesn't change the fact that "the players lost money" is irrelevant. The players don't have a claim to
"lost money" from revenues not realized, and no team is out there beating a drum mother f***ing f***, I wish the Coyotes would have generated more money so we'd have had to spend more on player salaries so we'd have made less money / lost more money. Any reputational hit from Meruelo's actions is a sunk cost at this point, you salvage by making the best of this and moving on.

Bottom line: talking about "lost money" is like talking about freedom. Great idea, sounds awesome, ... needs a hell of a lot of context to understand it properly when cited.

 

[BB79]

I like your posts Ted but let's let this one go. Southern bashing is one thing. An owner stiffing people on bills is a reputational risk for the league and the other owners. Merulo is a scam artist and his behaviour makes the NHL look like a garage league.

Having a team play in a college arena that seats a maximum of something like 4,600 people while the rest of the league is around 18,000 is an embarrassment in it's own right.

 

[Heldig]

??? I think Arizona would be better starting point then expansion


A million picks

Cooley.
Keller
Crouse.

Guenther
Macelli
Doan

Geekie / But / Simashev / Lamoureux/2024 top 7 pick

 

[TMLeafer]

View attachment 850054

Looks like they just posted the internal notes on what the gist of the official statement should be.

 

[HarrySPlinkett]

If they don’t rename them the Latter Day Skates, they’re leaving money on the table.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Which begs the question - why would Smith even want the Coyotes organization? With the Browns/Ravens organization there was ownership continuity, which isn't the case here. Moreover, taking on the Coyotes means taking on contracts Arizona absorbed to technically get to the floor, but will be problematic for Smith assuming he plans to try and build a contender in the short term.

There really isn't a ton of that left at all. Actually, starting next season, their dead cap situation is a competitive advantage. All they have left going forward:

$2.3m owed to OEL for buyout, over 8 years (cap penalties ranging from 290k-650k per season)
$1.9m combined owed to Nemeth and Kassian for buyouts next season
$3m total owed to Shea Weber over the next 3 seasons

So, that's only $7.2m in real cash, spread out unevenly over 8 years. Meanwhile, Weber and his $7.8m cap hit can be LTIRed* for the next 3 seasons. So, they are at a cap advantage for very little real money.

*Paul Homgren strikes again. Genius.

 

[muddywaters]

I feel bad for the fans caught in the middle ... I like having a team in Phoenix and it sounds like the NHL does too ... why can't they go back to Glendale on a temporary basis until they sort out a new arena ? Is that bridge burned ?

 

[NotASheep]

There are a lot of moving parts going on. But one thing that annoys me it the amount of hatred Frank Servalli is getting from some outlets in Arizona. The guy is a reporter and had 15+ years in the industry. He does not go unless he has the story 100%.

For those saying "he is a not an Arizona beat writer" The coyotes would have buried this so far down and hid it up to the moment they had to announce it. It came from out east--someone out east had enough and decided it was time for the discussion and decided to use Frank S as them outlet

 

[Summer Rose]

I feel bad for the fans caught in the middle ... I like having a team in Phoenix and it sounds like the NHL does too ... why can't they go back to Glendale on a temporary basis until they sort out a new arena ? Is that bridge burned ?

That bridge is more than burned. Glendale doesn't want the Coyotes back at all. That bridge is burned, imploded, sunk into the river, and would take way too much effort to dredge.

 

[hangman005]

That bridge is more than burned. Glendale doesn't want the Coyotes back at all. That bridge is burned, imploded, sunk into the river, and would take way too much effort to dredge.

Didn't they also dig up the whole river and fire it into the sun?

 

[Warden of the North]

I Googled HRR and the first thing that popped up:

The league is projected to bring in record revenues from the 2021-22 season, likely around $5.3 billion, if not higher, according to NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman when hockey-related revenue (HRR) is officially tabulated.

I think the billionaire-owned teams have been just fine.

Sure, but it's still cost them money. The league could be healthier with a larger salary cap, benefiting all teams

 

[Warden of the North]

I'm pretty sure I didn't really prove it, and that I could further elaborate on it to show that no matter what some team is always costing the league and the players money in some way, especially since high-revenue teams are perfectly content with lower HRR since it means more profit for them, but ... OK, whatever.

You must be an accountant.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Sure, but it's still cost them money. The league could be healthier with a larger salary cap, benefiting all teams

The cap has more than doubled over the last 20 years and is forecasted to go up another 10% over the next two years.

I'll trust the owners of the other 31 teams (or at least most of them) which wanted the team to stay in Phoenix what's best for business.

So, this doesn't explain why anyone should be excited that a team is leaving a market.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

There are a lot of moving parts going on. But one thing that annoys me it the amount of hatred Frank Servalli is getting from some outlets in Arizona. The guy is a reporter and had 15+ years in the industry. He does not go unless he has the story 100%.

For those saying "he is a not an Arizona bear writer" The coyotes would have buried this so far down and hid it up to the moment they had to announce it. It came from out east--someone out east had enough and decided it was time for the discussion and decided to use Frank S as them outlet

I agree there. Anyone that was honest about the situation would just get insulted. Like Katie Strang. And now we're hearing that the Coyotes are stiffing others AGAIN.

 

[Summer Rose]

Didn't they also dig up the whole river and fire it into the sun?

The sun also then exploded.

 

[JKG33]

I'm pretty sure I didn't really prove it, and that I could further elaborate on it to show that no matter what some team is always costing the league and the players money in some way, especially since high-revenue teams are perfectly content with lower HRR since it means more profit for them, but ... OK, whatever.

But surely you get why the players look at the money they lose to escrow, and then see a team playing in a minor league rink, and think what the f***?

 

[archangel2]

When do you think we will hear more.

Media will say stuff over the weekend. What I think has happened. The NHL asked for a plan B if the land deal fails or is delayed(is is a massive build) and the Arizona owners did not give them a plan B

 

[Bob and 200 others]

So, this doesn't explain why anyone should be excited that a team is leaving a market.

You're coming off as kind of obtuse in this thread. You refuse any explanation given and simply conflate any concerns people might have with "excitement". Like, what do you want from people? Do posters need to couch any and all comments with "empathy" for Yotes fans? Do people need to be careful about what and how they say things for fear of hurting Arizona fans feelings? I don't get what your gripe is at this point.