Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[BusinessGoose]

Kyle Dubas, Assistant to the General Manager

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I'm already depressed about this upcoming season, you guys don't have to put me further into darkness.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don't think it was a good trade at all. Converting cap space into futures is one thing. Blocking prospects at the NHL level for middling talent is quite another. Also, it is basically a contradiction to both want Yager in the NHL and like the Hayes acquisition. If Hayes was not here, Yager's chances would go up exponentially. Yeah yeah, I know: centers can play wing; Yager can beat someone else out if he is ready, yada yada yada...

We did well to get futures for Reilly Smith. We did really well in the Guentzel trade. That is the path we should follow, not the Hayes deal. Hayes has looked disinterested since leaving Philadelphia, and probably even before that. He does nothing for this team, except block the path to playing time for the likes of Yager, Ponomarev, Poulin et al.

We won't get anything for Hayes because he is middling. He does not move the need at all, and he probably was acquired because Mike Sullivan runs this franchise, not Kyle Dubas. OR, Dubas knows he has to do right by Sullivan, so he panders to him. But I seriously doubt that Hayes likes Sullivan and Quinn so much that he is going to go through walls for them and rebound with a career season.

The only redeeming quality about Hayes is that he does not have P-L Dubois' contract.

Yager was unlikely to make the team anyway. It's Mike Sullivan behind the bench. He wants a veteran PK'er who will take 70% D-zone starts, replacing Carter.
I never considered him making the team full-time a distinct possibility, so I'm not really worried about someone blocking him.

I just want picks if they're gonna spend a few years messing around, which they got in this trade.
Hayes isn't supposed to move the needle. There is no needle anymore. This team's lost all ambition. He's a filler while they maintain appearances. They're just waiting for Crosby to retire.

The more I look at our team the more I wonder why we signed so many players.

Is Lizotte supposed to sit as 13th man. Did Puljujarvi not show he deserves to play?

We have no spots for any young players to really fight for.

I don't get it.

Dubas cares greatly about the depth in Wilkes, since he's a former AHL GM and scout for many years.
He wants them to look good.

 

[Tom Hanks]

The more I look at our team the more I wonder why we signed so many players.

Is Lizotte supposed to sit as 13th man. Did Puljujarvi not show he deserves to play?

We have no spots for any young players to really fight for.

I don't get it.

In theory more depth of what we signed isn’t bad thing because if the young players are good enough they’ll play & we don’t have any high end young guys that are absolute ready……

BUT as long as Dubas either trades or waives to make room for youth

AND Sully makes the transition easier & scraps the offensive top 6/defensive bottom 6 style. Because there’ll be less spots for our young guys (unless they are defensive juggernauts which they never are) so they have to hit a higher threshold when they get an opportunity (through injuries etc). Gotta go back to 2-way L3 & L4.

If Dubas nor Sully do this then it’s kinda a waste and they should both f*** off. I think they both can do the right thing roster wise as playoffs aren't the #1 priority anymore (we’re in a rebuild transition period).

Now that doesn’t mean the young players will have success because they just might not be that good but if they show something in WBS, let’s reward them. We don’t have cap issues anymore either so there is really no excuse.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'll always have a soft spot for Geno being a trooper his whole career while being shafted for wingers.

In terms of the wingers our rosters have had he hasn’t really been shafted.

He’s had Kessel, Neal. Had one of his better seasons with Hagelin & Hornqvist. He’s had Kunitz, Jake, Rust some of the time too.

We’ve never had a plethora of great wingers so maybe compared to other teams he hasn’t but those teams never had a Geno calibre player as their 2C.

But compared to Crosby there hasn’t been a huge difference. Sid’s line gets the harder match ups too.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

I'll always have a soft spot for Geno being a trooper his whole career while being shafted for wingers.

It’s hard to build 2 super lines, but I agree that everybody new that comes gets the “let’s try him with Crosby” first and Malkin is an afterthought. I will say that it appears Crosby sacrificed the 1/2 wall spot for Geno. So there is that.

I don’t live in Pittsburgh but see the common trope of Malkin being a problem and good for nothing amongst casual fans. Makes me sick!

But compared to Crosby there hasn’t been a huge difference. Sid’s line gets the harder match ups too.

Not always. When Sid was out, Malkin usually shined, even with harder matchups!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s hard to build 2 super lines, but I agree that everybody new that comes gets the “let’s try him with Crosby” first and Malkin is an afterthought. I will say that it appears Crosby sacrificed the 1/2 wall spot for Geno. So there is that.

I don’t live in Pittsburgh but see the common trope of Malkin being a problem and good for nothing amongst casual fans. Makes me sick!


Not always. When Sid was out, Malkin usually shined, even with harder matchups!

It wasn't even just that. When Crosby had his set of wingers that he thrived with, anytime Malkin had a winger do well with him, they'd rip him off to drop down a struggling winger so they'd f*** up that line and then blame Malkin.

In terms of the wingers our rosters have had he hasn’t really been shafted.

He’s had Kessel, Neal. Had one of his better seasons with Hagelin & Hornqvist. He’s had Kunitz, Jake, Rust some of the time too.

We’ve never had a plethora of great wingers so maybe compared to other teams he hasn’t but those teams never had a Geno calibre player as their 2C.

But compared to Crosby there hasn’t been a huge difference. Sid’s line gets the harder match ups too.

Look at how long vs Crosby having Guentzel And Rust or Kunitz and Dupuis for the vast majority of his career.

Most of those players worked for small stretches and Neal was for one full season and parts of 2 more.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s hard to build 2 super lines, but I agree that everybody new that comes gets the “let’s try him with Crosby” first and Malkin is an afterthought. I will say that it appears Crosby sacrificed the 1/2 wall spot for Geno. So there is that.

I don’t live in Pittsburgh but see the common trope of Malkin being a problem and good for nothing amongst casual fans. Makes me sick!


Not always. When Sid was out, Malkin usually shined, even with harder matchups!

And to this day the best production from Rust and Guentzel as Penguins were with Malkin facing top units.

I also don't get why they feel Rust is better with Crosby than Rakell. Rakell has been the better overall winger for him offensively and defensively. It allows Doc to be the left wing and not be a massive joke defensively.

 

[SEALBound]

Ron Hextall’s Top 5 Blunders as Pittsburgh Penguins GM Revealed

Ron Hextall ‘s time as Penguins general manager was filled with some bright spots, but many blemishes. This article looks at his five worst moves as GM. Ron Hextall took over as Pittsburgh Penguins general manager on February 9 th, 2021....

fanrecap.com

Pretty accurate.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kyle Dubas, Assistant to the General Manager

The General Manager...

 

[HandshakeLine]

"It's way better to avoid a major procedure."

It's not the Dark Ages and these guys sorta kinda have boatloads of money. Rubbing some dirt on it, crossing your fingers and fishing all Summer isn't going to fix a blowed-out knee.

It rules because people just can't be like "my hero, superstar iron man athlete ______, actually melted their brains with pseudoscience and is scared that doctors are going to steal their blood while they're unconscious", they have some weird gobbledygook explanation for why superstar iron man athlete ______ won't take advantage of the best and most expensive medical care possible that they're not even paying for!

 

[eXile3]

Ron Hextall’s Top 5 Blunders as Pittsburgh Penguins GM Revealed

Ron Hextall ‘s time as Penguins general manager was filled with some bright spots, but many blemishes. This article looks at his five worst moves as GM. Ron Hextall took over as Pittsburgh Penguins general manager on February 9 th, 2021....

fanrecap.com

Pretty accurate.

You can also argue that most those players got better after leaving us and his biggest mistake was not getting rid of Sullivan.

 

[The Old Master]

Ron Hextall’s Top 5 Blunders as Pittsburgh Penguins GM Revealed

Ron Hextall ‘s time as Penguins general manager was filled with some bright spots, but many blemishes. This article looks at his five worst moves as GM. Ron Hextall took over as Pittsburgh Penguins general manager on February 9 th, 2021....

fanrecap.com

Pretty accurate.

refusing to fire the coach was the biggest. imo

 

[Andy99]

Ranking Penguins Speed by MPH; Surprises & Meaning

The NHL Edge statistical analysis doesn’t count the goals a player should have scored or other ethereal wizardry designed to quantify the game, but it instead gives the physical statistics, including speed. Unfortunately for Pittsburgh Penguins coach Mike Sullivan, he is still dealing with a...

pittsburghhockeynow.com

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Essentially Malkin is about as swift as frozen molasses lodged in a glacier?

 

[Andy99]

Essentially Malkin is about as swift as frozen molasses lodged in a glacier?

But Acciari is worse lol

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But Acciari is worse lol

That was the crazy one to me. He always seemed to play with great pace, elsewhere. Curious! Almost like he's been put in a really stupid position in a really stupid system, here. Or he just kinda sucks. Or both.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Acciari was a top three disappointment for me

Having watched the energy and effort he had here in St Louis i thought it would inject some much needed spark (even if not offensive) into the bottom six

Dude was as useless as could be

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

That was the crazy one to me. He always seemed to play with great pace, elsewhere. Curious! Almost like he's been put in a really stupid position in a really stupid system, here. Or he just kinda sucks. Or both.

Acciari's the poster child for a player who seemed like he had everything we needed in a bottom six player (physicality, grit, decent hands around the net, etc.) prior to arriving here, only for Sullivan to transform him into yet another one of our faceless, nothingburger dime a dozen 4th liners.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yager was unlikely to make the team anyway. It's Mike Sullivan behind the bench. He wants a veteran PK'er who will take 70% D-zone starts, replacing Carter.
I never considered him making the team full-time a distinct possibility, so I'm not really worried about someone blocking him.

I just want picks if they're gonna spend a few years messing around, which they got in this trade.
Hayes isn't supposed to move the needle. There is no needle anymore. This team's lost all ambition. He's a filler while they maintain appearances. They're just waiting for Crosby to retire.

Yager will be a Penguin soon enough. Whether it is 2024-25 or 2025-26 some time, he will be playing under Mike Sullivan. We can't "hide" this player until someone not associated with the state of Massachusetts fires the head coach. Not happening. So, the sooner Sullivan learns to live with young players on the roster, the sooner this "swift rebuild" can take place. Hextall did not fail because he did not fire the coach. He was never allowed to fire the coach. Where Dubas is currently failing is by bringing in too many players. You can't talk about getting younger publicly, then do the opposite in practice. It makes you look like an idiot, which I am sure he is not.

The ONLY hope we have is if the big four stars buy into the Dubas plan, AND Dubas is allowed to execute said plan of getting younger while maintaining a strong level of competitiveness. We are currently zero for two on said plan. Crosby has not signed yet, so is he all in on this plan? Also, none of the young players have any shot at realistically making the team out of training camp. We could see a bunch of them at some point, like Blomqvist, Koivunen, Ponomarev and Pickering. But Yager needs nine games and we currently don't have room for that on the roster. Poulin needs waivers to be sent down, and we don't have any room for him either. If we here about a Crosby signing before training camp, and if we see some kind of forward trade before training camp, then there would be good reason for optimism.

As things stand right now, this plan is headed for a complete disaster. And not a bottoming out type of disaster, either. A mediocre, middle-of-the-road vanilla disaster. The worst kind in pro sports.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Dubas brought Acciari on as a depth player in a failed concept in Toronto, to a failed concept here.

It's the player.

 

[Turin]

Dubas brought Acciari on as a depth player in a failed concept in Toronto, to a failed concept here.

It's the player.

Acciari was awesome in Toronto

 

[Ugene Magic]

Acciari was awesome in Toronto

Right up to where they were all negatives....

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Dubas brought Acciari on as a depth player in a failed concept in Toronto, to a failed concept here.

It's the player.

Acciari scored the same number of goals in Toronto in only 23 games as he did in 55 games for Pittsburgh.

Not only that, but his possession numbers were much, much better in Toronto. 49.4% CF and 53.4% FF are pretty damn good for a guy who is leaned on defensively.

It's only once he came to Pittsburgh that not only did his offense disappear, but his overall effectiveness as well.

Right up to where they were all negatives....

This seems to be based on absolutely nothing. He was a +2 during his Toronto stint. Given that his main role was defensive, that's pretty good.

 

[SEALBound]

Acciari was awesome in Toronto

Yeah my Toronto friend was excited for us and said we would like him. He said - there's your replacement for Tanev (though I didn't think that was a need).

But yeah, good in Flordia, good in St Louis, good in Toronto...comes here and he's a dud.

Now, what OH WHAT, could possibly account for that?