Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

[Tom Hanks]

Junior eligible players do not count towards the 50 contract limit unless they play more than 9 NHL games.

One of the cap sites says 54/50 and another says 50/50 (including jnr eligible)

I count 51 but didn’t go through who was junior eligible (wasn’t sure if it was just age )

I miss Cap Friendly.

 

[Gurglesons]

One of the cap sites says 54/50 and another says 50/50 (including jnr eligible)

I count 51 but didn’t go through who was junior eligible (wasn’t sure if it was just age )

I miss Cap Friendly.

god damn Capitals.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Hm. Maybe.

I think it's too easy to just say a good powerplay solves the issues as the systemic stubborness and lack of creativity of the powerplay is what infects the entire roster.

Yeah it doesn’t make us perfect or anything but we’d get enough points for playoffs last year.

As I mentioned a while back the PP was on the GM, coach and players. They all f***ed up for it to be that bad for that long.

 

[ChaosAgent]

This place became a lot more confusing to follow after I expanded the size of my ignore list...

Post was deleted. Now it shall live in infamy. Vamos Penguinos!

I'll say again, I don't care that they are waffling and have one foot in the rebuild and one foot in giving the current team a chance to make the playoffs. It's the right thing to do for one more year. If that means "not a plan" or whatever to people whose planned theme for their next 2024-2025 posting content calendar is that management is screwing the pooch on a great situation, that is fine. It's clear to me.

 

[SomeDude]

One of the cap sites says 54/50 and another says 50/50 (including jnr eligible)

I count 51 but didn’t go through who was junior eligible (wasn’t sure if it was just age )

I miss Cap Friendly.

If they are playing in Europe or their rights owned by a CHL team and are under 20 (meaning they're ineligible for the AHL) then that means their ELC can slide a year because the NHL team will not have the ability to add them to the NHL roster after they are re-assigned to their respective team for the season. Once someone plays 10 games, a year gets burned from the ELC thus making their contract count towards the 50 contract limit. No junior players like Howe and Brunicke should be counted as there is no chance they are playing 10 games. Even when Yager signs he will not be counted until that unlikely event occurs. If they kept him for a few games they could have 51 contracts and would only need to dump one after his 9th game.

 

[66-30-33]

Whatever Capfriendly site is next, some other team will pull a Washington and we lose yet another one. Why can't they have their own cap team?

 

[Andy99]

Dubas selected Yager — didn’t sign him to ELC that summer and still hasn’t signed him…Dubas selected Howe etc and signed them pretty quickly…why?

 

[SomeDude]

Dubas selected Yager — didn’t sign him to ELC that summer and still hasn’t signed him…Dubas selected Howe etc and signed them pretty quickly…why?

Because Howe and Brunicke were willing to sign for below the ELC max? They might not after this year. Yager is getting the max no matter when he signs. Plus both the other guys are 2nd round picks so if the Pens don't sign them, they get nothing. As a 1st round pick, in the unlikely event Yager had a career ending injury, the Pens would be awarded a comp 2nd round pick for not signing him. If he is signed and it happened in juniors, the Pens would get nothing. The odds are slim, but Dubas is a nerd and its a thing that he would do.

 

[Andy99]

Because Howe and Brunicke were willing to sign for below the ELC max? They might not after this year. Yager is getting the max no matter when he signs. Plus both the other guys are 2nd round picks so if the Pens don't sign them, they get nothing. As a 1st round pick, in the unlikely event Yager had a career ending injury, the Pens would be awarded a comp 2nd round pick for not signing him. If he is signed and it happened in juniors, the Pens would get nothing. The odds are slim, but Dubas is a nerd and its a thing that he would do.

I’ll accept that there’s a logical rationale lol…

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Whatever Capfriendly site is next, some other team will pull a Washington and we lose yet another one. Why can't they have their own cap team?

Puckpedia's the go-to now.

 

[cygnus47]

Yeah it doesn’t make us perfect or anything but we’d get enough points for playoffs last year.

As I mentioned a while back the PP was on the GM, coach and players. They all f***ed up for it to be that bad for that long.

Yeah, I doubt they were being coached to stand around passing and not attack the PK. Even if they weren’t being coached at all. The personnel really have a weird mind block about not getting to good positions with the puck and Sid might be the biggest issue there. It’s on coaches for not coaching that out of them, on the GM for not holding the coaches to account and the players for falling into an obviously stupid strategy.

 

[Ryder71]

I’ll accept that there’s a logical rationale lol…

What is it?

 

[Tom Hanks]

Yeah, I doubt they were being coached to stand around passing and not attack the PK. Even if they weren’t being coached at all. The personnel really have a weird mind block about not getting to good positions with the puck and Sid might be the biggest issue there. It’s on coaches for not coaching that out of them, on the GM for not holding the coaches to account and the players for falling into an obviously stupid strategy.

Some of the PP stats were weird. We were 5th in high danger chances but 27th in high danger shooting %

 

[SomeDude]

Some of the PP stats were weird. We were 5th in high danger chances but 27th in high danger shooting %

It's almost like high danger chances are a useless, flawed, and incredibly stupid stat and only used to try to make a crappy team look better. Which is why Sully is obsessed with them.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It's almost like high danger chances are a useless, flawed, and incredibly stupid stat and only used to try to make a crappy team look better. Which is why Sully is obsessed with them.

It’s not perfect but there is a big drop off from high danger shooting % to medium and low danger for most teams.
So in general it’s the best area to be shooting from.

I was surprised to see besides the half Covid season we haven’t been near the top of the league in PP’s since 2018/19 (Kessel’s last year as a Pen).

2016/17 - 3rd
2017/18 - 1st
2018/19 - 5th
2019/20 - 16th
2020/21 - 4th (short Covid year, McCann led PP goals)
2021/22 - 19th
2022/23 - 14th
2023/24 - 30th

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s not perfect but there is a big drop off from high danger shooting % to medium and low danger for most teams.
So in general it’s the best area to be shooting from.

I was surprised to see besides the half Covid season we haven’t been near the top of the league in PP’s since 2018/19 (Kessel’s last year as a Pen).

2016/17 - 3rd
2017/18 - 1st
2018/19 - 5th
2019/20 - 16th
2020/21 - 4th (short Covid year, McCann led PP goals)
2021/22 - 19th
2022/23 - 14th
2023/24 - 30th

Dimitri Filipovic has been doing some great work analyzing high danger chances and they are downright awful at this point, especially considering most teams are moving towards "generating" them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The top-six winger we need does not have to be super young. What he needs to be is a right-handed shot who can help this frickin' power play. You can get younger AND better at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, never have been.

We did not need to insert a ton of young players this year, I agree. But right now, it will be Jack St. Ivany and that is about it. This coach has proven time and time again that he will ignore preseason performance and look mostly at birth certificates when deciding on the final roster spots. Birth certificates and style of play. If you suck, this coach wants you!

You can argue that Beauvillier was a decent gamble. And we don't have a lot of wingers READY to play at the moment, save for Koivunen. But bringing in two more veteran centers, while not deleting either last year's No. 3 or No. 4 center is the big issue. You might not think we have a lot of rookies that are ready, but the two you did mention are centers. No idea what they were thinking when they brought in Lizotte and Hayes. Especially when you consider that Eller is on an expiring contract, but the two new guys have term! It makes me shake my head every time I think of it.

So yeah, we have a better prospect pool and more picks. That part of it is good. But this coach is not going to maximize those assets, so why does it even matter?

And sorry, if we were going to take on a player we absolutely do not need in Kevin Hayes, then 45th overall was nowhere near enough incentive. Either the Blues fork over a first rounder, even a first 5years from now, or you walk away.

No other team would have taken Hayes and a second for nothing. Jake Walman is way more serviceable at this point than Hayes. Had they done Walman and a second for nothing, then you don't have Hayes right now and you don't need Grzelcyk either.

But we are the No. 2 NHL team from Boston, so that is where we are at.

If Sullivan gave Puustinen the same opportunities as often as he did For Doc in the top 6, we wouldn't be talking about needing a top 6 winger. I mean Rust and Rakell are literally top 6 wingers that produce 50+ and Raks can play LW well when with Sid. Ah well. Let's just keep signing more shit and f***ing over players a team in this position should be trying.

It’s not perfect but there is a big drop off from high danger shooting % to medium and low danger for most teams.
So in general it’s the best area to be shooting from.

I was surprised to see besides the half Covid season we haven’t been near the top of the league in PP’s since 2018/19 (Kessel’s last year as a Pen).

2016/17 - 3rd
2017/18 - 1st
2018/19 - 5th
2019/20 - 16th
2020/21 - 4th (short Covid year, McCann led PP goals)
2021/22 - 19th
2022/23 - 14th
2023/24 - 30th

Yeah I wouldn't even count the covid year to be honest.

 

[OtherThingsILike]

I can see the benefit of waiting to sign Yager until the ambiguity of where he's going to play next season (either NHL or WHL) is resolved.

 

[Ulf5]

Everyone gets signed except for Yager I suppose.

And Crosby! They're both getting traded at the deadline. E69

 

[Andy99]

Well, Geno is ahead of Trocheck at least so all is right with the world …lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813204640277643417

 

[JRS91]

Well, Geno is ahead of Trocheck at least so all is right with the world …lol

https://x.com/i/web/status/1813204640277643417

Mark Madden is in shambles right now.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

There probably is a logical reason why Yager has not signed yet, but it is not a comfortable feeling right now as a Pens fan. That much is certain. Ditto Crosby. Until both are signed, it is not a good feeling.

Regarding Pettersson, I am clearly in the minority but I would re-sign him too. I don't think the Pettersson situation and the Guentzel situation are the same. Pettersson's skill set is not one that you select early in drafts. You don't draft defensive-first defensemen early. And you probably don't have many prospects who play the same way. So, when you trade a guy like Pettersson, you immediately need a guy like Pettersson. Defensive defensemen are not unique, but they are not easily found either. Especially in the modern NHL.

Plus, Pettersson is the ideal player you want on the roster when you start introducing young defensemen into the lineup (hopefully in a post-Sullivan world, where Sullivan becomes the alternate governor of the team or something. Maybe he pulls a Woody Johnson and becomes an Irish ambassador to the POTUS. Whatever). Having Pettersson now makes sense because he is ideal for Karlsson as a partner. But down the road, he is the ideal partner for someone like Brunicke, too.

Again, you can trade him for picks and prospects and completely go into the tank. But it does not have to be this way. Am I suggesting that Pettersson is less replaceable than Guentzel? Well, would we have gone on a late-season run had we traded Pettersson instead last season? Me thinks not. Karlsson's game would not have improved down the stretch without Pettersson, imo. And Crosby and Rust were just fine with O'Connor.

In conclusion, each potential UFA case should be looked at separately. I do not believe in the theory that you have to trade any and all that is not bolted down. Some guys are worth keeping, and in my opinion Pettersson is one such case.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I’ll accept that there’s a logical rationale lol…

This was so beautiful, I am left here, alone in the kitchen... weeping

 

[Randy Butternubs]

There probably is a logical reason why Yager has not signed yet, but it is not a comfortable feeling right now as a Pens fan. That much is certain. Ditto Crosby. Until both are signed, it is not a good feeling.

Regarding Pettersson, I am clearly in the minority but I would re-sign him too. I don't think the Pettersson situation and the Guentzel situation are the same. Pettersson's skill set is not one that you select early in drafts. You don't draft defensive-first defensemen early. And you probably don't have many prospects who play the same way. So, when you trade a guy like Pettersson, you immediately need a guy like Pettersson. Defensive defensemen are not unique, but they are not easily found either. Especially in the modern NHL.

Plus, Pettersson is the ideal player you want on the roster when you start introducing young defensemen into the lineup (hopefully in a post-Sullivan world, where Sullivan becomes the alternate governor of the team or something. Maybe he pulls a Woody Johnson and becomes an Irish ambassador to the POTUS. Whatever). Having Pettersson now makes sense because he is ideal for Karlsson as a partner. But down the road, he is the ideal partner for someone like Brunicke, too.

Again, you can trade him for picks and prospects and completely go into the tank. But it does not have to be this way. Am I suggesting that Pettersson is less replaceable than Guentzel? Well, would we have gone on a late-season run had we traded Pettersson instead last season? Me thinks not. Karlsson's game would not have improved down the stretch without Pettersson, imo. And Crosby and Rust were just fine with O'Connor.

In conclusion, each potential UFA case should be looked at separately. I do not believe in the theory that you have to trade any and all that is not bolted down. Some guys are worth keeping, and in my opinion Pettersson is one such case.

Because Howe and Brunicke were willing to sign for below the ELC max? They might not after this year. Yager is getting the max no matter when he signs. Plus both the other guys are 2nd round picks so if the Pens don't sign them, they get nothing. As a 1st round pick, in the unlikely event Yager had a career ending injury, the Pens would be awarded a comp 2nd round pick for not signing him. If he is signed and it happened in juniors, the Pens would get nothing. The odds are slim, but Dubas is a nerd and its a thing that he would do.

SomeDude has it covered

 

[Hockeyville USA]

There probably is a logical reason why Yager has not signed yet, but it is not a comfortable feeling right now as a Pens fan. That much is certain. Ditto Crosby. Until both are signed, it is not a good feeling.

Regarding Pettersson, I am clearly in the minority but I would re-sign him too. I don't think the Pettersson situation and the Guentzel situation are the same. Pettersson's skill set is not one that you select early in drafts. You don't draft defensive-first defensemen early. And you probably don't have many prospects who play the same way. So, when you trade a guy like Pettersson, you immediately need a guy like Pettersson. Defensive defensemen are not unique, but they are not easily found either. Especially in the modern NHL.

Plus, Pettersson is the ideal player you want on the roster when you start introducing young defensemen into the lineup (hopefully in a post-Sullivan world, where Sullivan becomes the alternate governor of the team or something. Maybe he pulls a Woody Johnson and becomes an Irish ambassador to the POTUS. Whatever). Having Pettersson now makes sense because he is ideal for Karlsson as a partner. But down the road, he is the ideal partner for someone like Brunicke, too.

Again, you can trade him for picks and prospects and completely go into the tank. But it does not have to be this way. Am I suggesting that Pettersson is less replaceable than Guentzel? Well, would we have gone on a late-season run had we traded Pettersson instead last season? Me thinks not. Karlsson's game would not have improved down the stretch without Pettersson, imo. And Crosby and Rust were just fine with O'Connor.

In conclusion, each potential UFA case should be looked at separately. I do not believe in the theory that you have to trade any and all that is not bolted down. Some guys are worth keeping, and in my opinion Pettersson is one such case.

Outsider perspective: Yager is asking for the ELC max with max bonuses and/or asking for the 9 game tryout at minimum to start this year. I'm likely wrong but just my best guess.

Crosby will sign his extension on 8/7 because he's Sid.