Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

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Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
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Good.


This is probably the best argument for re-signing him, even if I don't agree with it. I still see no reason to think he'd be a good mentor for rookies, but maybe he can be a stabilizing presence. On the other hand, that's probably why he'd also fetch the most value of the moveable roster pieces and he's our only real shot at selling high on a piece of this team and getting decent assets for a roster player.

I suppose it ultimately depends on what is being offered. I am certainly not trading him for something less than interesting. I am certainly not doing the same thing as the Hayes deal. That second round pick is not worth having that carcass on the roster, that's for sure.

But a first-round pick and a defensive defenseman to replace Pettersson would certainly get my attention. I don't know who that would be, or what team. Too early for that.
 

eXile3

Registered User
Dec 12, 2020
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Are we gonna pretend like he wasn't a major part of the problem? He has the puck an awful lot on that unit.
It’s a fair point but I also think a lot of the issue with the PP were that the goalie could see the puck. We had zero net front presence until Bunting. Which I think our PP got better after he came over? At least it seemed that way.

Geno absolutely contributed to some of the issues as they all did. But goalies are too good now. If they can see it, they’ll stop it.
 

Speaker City

Im worth 3.5 million the govt knows about.
Nov 15, 2010
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It’s a fair point but I also think a lot of the issue with the PP were that the goalie could see the puck. We had zero net front presence until Bunting. Which I think our PP got better after he came over? At least it seemed that way.

Geno absolutely contributed to some of the issues as they all did. But goalies are too good now. If they can see it, they’ll stop it.
I miss the good old days where Geno could just bomb a slapper past Ondrej Pavelec 20 seconds into a power play.
 

Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
36,062
1,951
Montreal, QC
NHL players do not get paid during the preseason. So sure, Yager played last year and can play again this year.

He is not allowed to play in the regular season, though. Not even the nine-game trial. Not one game. Unless he is signed.

As for Geno, he is not even an issue on this team at this time. Is he in decline? Certainly. He was a scoring champion and MVP in this league. He is not that anymore.

Still an upper-echelon No. 2 center in this league. And, I am excited to see what he can do with Bunting for a full season.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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I think maybe some people still have their minds cast back years ago when guys like Malkin and Sid could just... will a goal on the powerplay. They've never been the swiftest on the man advantage and the issues with standing around too much have been going on for years. It's just that back then the talent just overwhelmed most obstacles. Malkin is 38, now. People keep telling me to adjust expectations... take your own advice.

They took him off the top unit last year and honestly if anything it looked even worse. If ya wanna scapegoat someone that's cool but just realize your views align with Mike Sullivan and he's a goof.

All that said Malkin will be lucky to crack 60 points next year. Not just because of the decline but because I'm assuming they will relegate him to second unit a lot of the year, again and that's where basically any offensive player banks points. The ~30 seconds you get on second unit isn't even enough to set up most times. None of this is complaining... just strikes me odd to single out one guy. Particularly when he was largely removed from the equation for a good chunk of the year and nothing changed for the better.
 
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Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
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So they had a better winning record in that span, scored at a clip that was at the top of the league, but were also absolutely atrocious defensively and allowed more goals in that span than they did all year and the powerplay didn't really mean shit.
The point of this was that - The PP% might have allowed them to score more, but it doesn't necessarily mean they would have won more.

They bled more goals in that span than they had all season, Ned played in most (99%) of those games, the difference was, the Penguins were scoring at a 3.9-4.0 goals per game pace, they were out scoring the opponents while allowing something like 3.7-3.8 goals against per game. Not ideal, but the difference there was - the defense was never that great all season and the goaltending was asked to do far too much early on, Jarry and Ned were tasked with the heavy lifting while the Penguins goals per game was absolute shit.

Sullivan prioritized making Crosby happy all the while alienating the shit out of the entire line-up, then he even doubled down on how Karlsson should play and be used. Karlsson was there to help with the transition and 5v5 scoring but also help the powerplay, but the issue there is, Karlsson was never that huge of a PP player, his entire career he was always a better 5v5 player for production and to "assume" he'd make the PP better is more a you problem than it is a Karlsson problem.

You can't be mad at a player for being something he's not, especially a veteran player of an elite caliber like Karlsson. They had players that thrived on the powerplay, someone like Puustinen which some really micro peen wankers here love to hate on for whatever reason, a player like Val was able to open up lanes, which showed the issue wasn't so much the personnel, but how static they were all the time. I implore you lot to go and watch the PP in which Puustinen was on, vs the other PP's where he wasn't and see that movement. It took something that small to get them going for a short span before predictably, Sullivan went back to "his way."

Reirden got the short end of the stick here, hate him all you want, the issues were always mounting because of the way Sullivan prioritized things and how he wanted them to play. A coach that was successful with the powerplay during a previous tenure and with another team, suddenly goes flaccid?

Then to make matters worse, they go out and hire a clone that is quite possibly worse than anything else this team could have hired - Like bringing Recchi back would be worse, Quinn is slightly above that. Quinn has no insane track record with Defense, his Assistants did. Warsofsky is someone I mentioned before when he was with the Wolves that he would be an insane hire for a team, he came over to the Sharks and Karlsson had one of his best seasons ever. That's not Quinn. That's like assuming Rob Brown was a 100+ winger by himself. Warsofksy was the Lemieux to Quinn's Brown.
 

Honour Over Glory

#firesully
Jan 30, 2012
81,989
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I think maybe some people still have their minds cast back years ago when guys like Malkin and Sid could just... will a goal on the powerplay. They've never been the swiftest on the man advantage and the issues with standing around too much have been going on for years.
I think Sid & Geno could still score goals on the powerplay, but if Sid is dictating who he wants on it as his Super Friends Team up with Rust and Letang, or whatever, then that's a problem. You have players that aren't typically your PP specialists that you would think of but they serve a purpose on the powerplay.

The real issue you nail though - Standing around too much.

They're entirely too static. Sid is parked where he always is, Malkin is getting zero direction for what he should do, Jake was parked on the other side but wasn't crashing the crease anymore, Rust also just floated in the same spot waiting for a shot. Rakell kind of just went up and down the left side waiting for a shot. The only f***ing player that was moving around all over the place is a young lad that Sullivan didn't really want to play in the top 6 or use correctly and had some weird hate by a select few wankers. Maybe Sid and Co didn't like that the player kept moving around creating openings for the PP and making it harder for the PK to block lanes, who knows. But the issue is - They're very static. They stand around and do the same thing hoping for a different result. We know what that is the definition of.

Also comical the ownership/Kindergarten Kyle want to keep Sully around thinking it'll change.
It's just that back then the talent just overwhelmed most obstacles. Malkin is 38, now. People keep telling me to adjust expectations... take your own advice.
Back then, Sarge had a bomb and Geno floated up in the higher slot for another bomb, then you had someone buzzing near the side of the net or near the front, it allowed havoc to ensue for the PK that was hard to manage. When you rarely, if ever, take a shot from the point, the PK doesn't need to bother even worrying about them and can pressure the shit out of the point - which they do, which leads to turnovers and Shorthanded opportunities, the Penguins kept doing that. They have players that can shoot but they won't use them at the point.

It's like the archaic - A D needs to be there because a D has a hard point shot, no. Rakell and Puustinen have a very hard clapper. Malkin used to but he had issues with his arm a few seasons ago and he can't release the clapper as quickly as he used to with the same accuracy and power, so he's more of a lower slot bloke that has a quicker snap or at best, you leave him off the PP and use him more 5v5.

You can't trick teams into thinking Malkin is a decoy anymore, they know.
They took him off the top unit last year and honestly if anything it looked even worse. If ya wanna scapegoat someone that's cool but just realize your views align with Mike Sullivan and he's a goof.

All that said Malkin will be lucky to crack 60 points next year. Not just because if the decline but because I'm assuming they will relegate him to second unit a lot of the year, again and that's where basically any offensive player banks points. The ~30 seconds you get on second unit isn't even enough to set up most times. None of this is complaining... just strikes me odd to single out one guy.

I think if Malkin is healthy, he tops 80pts. I think the weird hate for Malkin or underestimating of his talent is ridiculous here to be honest, there's no player that leaves more on the ice than Malkin does and yeah I know Crosby is the lord almighty to most of the Pens fans, but Malkin has literally given everything with a f***ed arm and leg and was still showing more heart than this entire roster and would still get called out for not producing while having the literal worst top 6 wingers of any team in the playoffs or season that is a contender.

If Bunting stays with Geno and they realize Rakell isn't the right fit on that line and is the right fit with Sid, then they move up Puustinen where the trio actually looked amazing together, we'd be fine. IF DOC has grown into this "potential top 6 winger!" well Puustinen showed the same production pace in his first f***ing season getting jerked around harder with less top 6 time, so why not use him where he's fit the best and where he's given the biggest boost in the line-up - with Geno.

Crosby's line is perfectly fine as Rakell-Crosby-Rust. Rakell with a healed arm/shoulder is a 60pt winger, Rakell with a f***ed shoulder was a 50pt winger, the Rakell hate is stupid and blokes should feel stupid for that. Raks gives Sid's line something it desperately needs - Balance defensively. With Rakell on that line, they give up less odd man rushes, allow fewer goals against and still produce well. So what's the issue? Sully has no qualms about using him on his off wing often, Rakell has traditionally been used that way since he came into the league with the Ducks, he's good on either side. Sid is also the best fit for Rakell's usage. Rust is whatever now, he's I guess some massive superstar in his own mind because defensively, he's a f***ing joke the last few years.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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Ha... I always appreciate your enthusiasm re: Malkin, HoG. But I just can't agree. No hate... but dude is old and has sustained a ton of injuries. His skating is... um... rough. And it's a skating league. And if people are pinning their hopes on Bunting with a side of Quinn to alleviate things... well... I guess I'm just going to have to say I'm extremely doubtful. Bunting stands a better chance of turning back into a 3rd/4th liner as he does being a top contributor next season IMO. We've seen that fish before.

All that said I find it puzzling that he seems to keep finding his name at the center of the powerplay controversy when, again... the team came to the same conclusion ya'll did and yanked him. It did nothing... improved nothing. Funny dude still catches the blame when he's not even on the ice lol
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
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Jun 13, 2010
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I miss the good old days where Geno could just bomb a slapper past Ondrej Pavelec 20 seconds into a power play.
One thing that has been mentioned previously but I still think goes undervalued is just how much raw "shooting skill" we've lost over the last couple of years.
Without Jake, we don't even really have a pure shooter. Who's our best shooter? Sid?

Rust is okay, Rakell is mid, Geno has declined, Bunting is mid, Letang is in decline, Karlsson is good but we don't see it often. We just don't have many good shooters anymore.

Ha... I always appreciate your enthusiasm re: Malkin, HoG. But I just can't agree. No hate... but dude is old and has sustained a ton of injuries. His skating is... um... rough. And it's a skating league. And if people are pinning their hopes on Bunting with a side of Quinn to alleviate things... well... I guess I'm just going to have to say I'm extremely doubtful. Bunting stands a better chance of turning back into a 3rd/4th liner as he does being a top contributor next season IMO. We've seen that fish before.

All that said I find it puzzling that he seems to keep finding his name at the center of the powerplay controversy when, again... the team came to the same conclusion ya'll did and yanked him. It did nothing... improved nothing. Funny dude still catches the blame when he's not even on the ice lol
Father time is undefeated. He comes for us all. Except Sid apparently.
 

MayorofWBS

Registered User
Apr 14, 2015
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But a first-round pick and a defensive defenseman to replace Pettersson would certainly get my attention. I don't know who that would be, or what team. Too early for that.
You greatly overestimate what Petts is worth. That defensive defenseman would have to be a cap dump warm body for the rest of the season to pull that value.
 

ChaosAgent

Registered User
May 8, 2018
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Karlsson is a bigger problem on the Powerplay than Malkin. He is an idiot with his decision-making out there. Cue the 100% Powerplay WAR chart lolol. Arguably Crosby is too. Guentzel was atrocious on the Powerplay.

Malkin was only brought up because we are discussing him and his ranking in the league. He was terrible on the Powerplay last year just as everyone else in the above paragraph was. Even though he was good at ES. This isn't Malkin persecution day.
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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As the biggest Kessel hater, acknowledging that he carried the PP in his last few years here makes me sad. I really thought the core would go right back to top 5-6 power play without him. That did not work.

As soon as Kessel left I was pounding the desk for a new option on that half wall to replace him.

So they went with like... Jason Zucker. Great.
 

Tom Hanks

Spelling mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.
Nov 10, 2017
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As soon as Kessel left I was pounding the desk for a new option on that half wall to replace him.

So they went with like... Jason Zucker. Great.

Kessel was more than that too. He was the QB bringing it up the ice. Too bad he 💩 the bed defensively at 5v5 so badly that we had to move on.
 
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