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Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: We Hayes Dubas's offseason moves so far

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Empoleon8771 said:
Also something I just realized when looking at Capfriendly: Letang's NMC turns into a 10 team NTC after July 1st 2026. I didn't realize that he didn't maintain a full NMC over the entirety of the deal.

I am skeptical you'd get much value by trading a 39/40 year old Letang, but I think trading Letang down the line is more possible than I was initially assuming it to be.
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perfect trade deadline guy.
 
KrisLetAngry said:
1 salary retention spot left this year.

Get 2 back the year after.

Trade to teams to eat % and take a slightly less return

Let's get creative.


I was holding out bit Kevin Hayes for a 2nd was the writing on the wall.

Again we won't tear it down.
FSG wants to show there prize ponies to the fans.
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This team is so moronic it probably WANTED Kevin Hayes and thought they were absolutely robbing St. Louis. I can just imagine lil Kyle and Mikey high fiving each other and looking around pumping their fists like they had discovered a giant brick of solid gold just layin' around on the floor for anyone to pick up.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
So you'd take a worse return now just to trade a player now, rather than waiting a year or two when they'd be in a more advantageous position to tradte.
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Depends on how much the team charges to retain cap. It also depends on how much the team we are trading to is interested in 2 years at a lower cap hit v 1 year at a lower cap hit.

2 playoff runs with an extra team helping could be worth as much as 1 playoff run.
 
DesertedPenguin said:
Certainly not this year, that's for sure.

The only way to trade all of those guys would be to do it in chunks. You'd have to deal Crosby, Eller, and Pettersson this year. You'd have to wait until next summer to trade Rust, when his NMC expires. And you'd likely have to retain something on Letang, Malkin, and Karlsson. Definitely on the latter two. Probably a small percentage on Letang, just because of his medical history. And they only have one retention spot left right now.
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Yeah my point was that it's impossible to trade all of those guys right now. The Penguins simply do not have the flexibility to reasonable blow up a roster to that level with only having 1 retention slot, a bunch of full NMCs and a league that mostly has all of the good teams at the cap already.
 
BlindWillyMcHurt said:
This team is so moronic it probably WANTED Kevin Hayes and thought they were absolutely robbing St. Louis. I can just imagine lil Kyle and Mikey high fiving each other and looking around pumping their fists like they had discovered a giant brick of solid gold just layin' around on the floor for anyone to pick up.
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*kindergarten kyle.
 
KrisLetAngry said:
 
Depends on how much the team charges to retain cap. It also depends on how much the team we are trading to is interested in 2 years at a lower cap hit v 1 year at a lower cap hit.

2 playoff runs with an extra team helping could be worth as much as 1 playoff run.
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It would cost an absolute fortune to get another team to retain significant money on basically anyone with term.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
It would cost an absolute fortune to get another team to retain significant money on basically anyone with term.
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Like I said 1 v 2 runs of a playoffs. I could see it being roughly the same type of return.

Again there's a lot of NMCs with full NTC so we'd have to sit down everyone and have a discussion

Most likely your right it won't happen. Hands are tied but I can dream.
 
SEALBound said:
It's because when we draft low we get: Mario Lemieux. Then Jagr. Then MAF, then Malkin, then Sid, then Staal.

This fanbase has never really gone through things like Hall, RNH, then Yakupov. Or a Derek Stepan or Diagle or a middling guy like Lafreniere or Hischier (meaning guys who are good but not franchise altering gets).

I think everyone is assuming "Oh, we tank, we get 1ov, we draft another Sid, we start a 15 year window of cup contention all over again" which is most certainly not going to be the case in all likelihood. People here just have absolutely warped views of what high picks should be doing for the organization.
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Yah. Which is why I’m not hating on “lame 2nd round picks in 2027”

We’re gonna need A LOT of lottery tickets in 3 years. We may as well start collecting them now
 
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KrisLetAngry said:
Like I said 1 v 2 runs of a playoffs. I could see it being roughly the same type of return.

Again there's a lot of NMCs with full NTC so we'd have to sit down everyone and have a discussion

Most likely your right it won't happen. Hands are tied but I can dream.
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Even if we want to talk about Malkin, who's the guy with the least amount of term left that could be considered a trade candidate, retaining 50% of what he's owed would cost another team $5.2 million. That tends to have the value of around a 2nd rounder.

As a rough estimate, asking others to retain on their core guys will cost a 2nd with Malkin, 2 2nds or a 1st with Letang and probably 2 1sts with Karlsson. And that doesn't even address the NMC issue of them picking their location. I don't even know if you could get a 1st for Letang at 50% due to the term he has left on his deal.

When people say "blow up this team", they don't look at the actual logistics to make that possible.
 
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molon labe said:
"Everything in life is 50/50. It will either happen, or it won't happen."

~ Teal'c
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Outside of a pres trophy or a cup appearance/win (simply do not think this team has what it takes) no outcome would be shocking to me this year tbh.

So bad we get a top 3 pick, win a playoff round, anything in between… I’d be surprised by some of the extremes but not like in absolute shock.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
Literally no one in here is in denial about the state of the Penguins. We just realize that trading Crosby is not going to tangibly improve or expedite the rebuild, so we all think trading Crosby is a stupid idea.
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Not tangibly improve? Based on what? Because you don't want to trade Sid? Of course it would help expedite the rebuild as we'd get more young assets. And more young players and draft picks.
 
The more I look at it, the more I think the cost to get another team to retain significant money on Malkin, Karlsson and Letang is more value than they'd be bringing back even with that salary retention. I think this is especially true with Karlsson and Letang.

Ryder71 said:
Not tangibly improve? Based on what? Because you don't want to trade Sid? Of course it would help expedite the rebuild as we'd get more young assets. And more young players and draft picks.
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Because I actually realize what a Crosby trade would look like, while you are seemingly obtuse about it. Crosby will be 37 years old, has a full NMC and a $8.7 million cap hit. He can hand-pick any location he can go to. How would that player bring back any sort of notable value?

Go look at what Kane and Giroux were traded for in the past. Crosby's not bringing back much more than that. At best, he's bringing back 2 late 1sts and that even seems wildly optimistic to me.

Iginla forced himself to go to only the Penguins and Calgary only got some no-name NCAA prospects and a 1st. Kane forced himself to only go to the Rangers and he only brought back a 2nd. Giroux forced himself to only go to the Panthers and he only brought back Tippett and a 1st. Crosby's not going to be any different, even with Crosby being better than those guys.
 
KrisLetAngry said:
1 salary retention spot left this year.

Get 2 back the year after.

Trade to teams to eat % and take a slightly less return

Let's get creative.


I was holding out bit Kevin Hayes for a 2nd was the writing on the wall.

Again we won't tear it down.
FSG wants to show there prize ponies to the fans.
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It'll tear itself down. Nothing Sid or the core can do will stop it, they could slow it down a bit, but that's it. We're going to be on the nevermind list in april.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Even if we want to talk about Malkin, who's the guy with the least amount of term left that could be considered a trade candidate, retaining 50% of what he's owed would cost another team $5.2 million. That tends to have the value of around a 2nd rounder.

As a rough estimate, asking others to retain on their core guys will cost a 2nd with Malkin, 2 2nds or a 1st with Letang and probably 2 1sts with Karlsson. And that doesn't even address the NMC issue of them picking their location. I don't even know if you could get a 1st for Letang at 50% due to the term he has left on his deal.

When people say "blow up this team", they don't look at the actual logistics to make that possible.
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I think with Sid, you can find a team to take him at the $8.7 or $10mil. I think he's the kind of guy you make room for if you even CAN get him.

But you're right, it's much more likely that the only realistic way to move Geno and Letang and maybe Karlsson is to wait until their final year and retain 25-50% at the TDL for a reasonable-ish return.

I think you could find a taker for Rust though since $5mil isn't that bad.

But why people are in such a hurry to be a bottom of the barrel team is beyond me.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
I don't understand how there is a single Penguins fan who wants Crosby to leave Pittsburgh. No matter what kind of wacky justification you give for it, it just makes me think "are you actually a Penguins fan?" to suggest that Crosby should leave.
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Complainers will find something to complain about that's for damn sure.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
The more I look at it, the more I think the cost to get another team to retain significant money on Malkin, Karlsson and Letang is more value than they'd be bringing back even with that salary retention. I think this is especially true with Karlsson and Letang.



Because I actually realize what a Crosby trade would look like, while you are seemingly obtuse about it. Crosby will be 37 years old, has a full NMC and a $8.7 million cap hit. He can hand-pick any location he can go to. How would that player bring back any sort of notable value?

Go look at what Kane and Giroux were traded for in the past. Crosby's not bringing back much more than that. At best, he's bringing back 2 late 1sts and that even seems wildly optimistic to me.
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Kane and Giroux aren't Sidney Crosby. To make such an inane assertion tells me you're not a serious person. You don't know what a trade for Sid would look like actually. Sid put up over 90 points. And the aura and level of success surrounding such a player is factored in as well. And once again if we don't get a big haul, we don't trade him, so you can watch your precious hero go down with the ship. Congrats!

Cap considerations will also be at play. Which requires guys coming back beyond just picks/prospects.
 
Ryder71 said:
Kane and Giroux aren't Sidney Crosby. To make such an inane assertion tells me you're not a serious person. You don't know what a trade for Sid would look like actually. Sid put up over 90 points. And the aura and level of success surrounding such a player is factored in as well. And once again if we don't get a big haul, we don't trade him, so you can watch your precious hero go down with the ship. Congrats!

Cap considerations will also be at play. Which requires guys coming back beyond just picks/prospects.
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Let's look at the Ray Bourque trade instead then:

"The 39-year-old defenseman was traded along with forward Dave Andreychuk for forward Brian Rolston, defenseman Martin Grenier, center Sami Pahlsson and Boston’s choice of a first-round pick in either 2000 or 2001."

Rolston was a good young player in the middle of a horrid year with the Avs and Grenier was a recent 2nd rounder, but this again is not a "rebuild altering" return either.

The return you're looking at with Crosby is at best something like Crosby at 50% for Colton, Ritchie (27th overall pick in 2023) and Colorado's 2025 1st. So 2 late 1sts and some cap coming back. That's not going to tangibly impact the rebuild.
 
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