Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[SEALBound]

Especially weird when so many on this board were saying how that’s the exact kind of player we should trade for if we want to get younger/more exciting.

Yup, as I said in the past, if you make a list of attributes that you want in a Sidney Crosby left wing and make them 23, the machine shits you out, McGroarty.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pronman has Pickering as a better prospect than either Yager or McGroarty, which I think anyone who has followed Penguins prospects would argue is criminally stupid.

Not really.

Upside wise Pickering probably has the biggest of the three without a doubt if you are focusing on projection.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

Looked at his comparables historically. He's middle-six wing potential based on his college stats. If everything goes well for him, something like Stepan would be a reasonable career ceiling projection.
Nothing wrong with that at 14th overall, especially if he brings leadership, net-front presence and defense.

I expect less from him under this coach, while playing for this team though. This is a difficult situation. Will do better when he moves on.

The trade makes sense. No issue with that.

 

[Turin]

Interesting to note that Pronman just released his under 23 rankings and has Yager 40ish spots ahead of McGroarty in his rankings. Looks like an L from that standpoint, but it’s hard to understand why Pronman views it that way when there are several other guys like Wheeler who view it differently.

Pronman gets a boner for any player with video game flash. I'm not convinced he doesn't just filter all ratings through who he thinks has the fastest hands and the hardest shots. That's why he rated Laine over Matthews, or was so high on Sprong compared to everybody else.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Pronman gets a boner for any player with video game flash. I'm not convinced he doesn't just filter all ratings through who he thinks has the fastest hands and the hardest shots. That's why he rated Laine over Matthews, or was so high on Sprong compared to everybody else.

The only people's opinions worth listening to on prospects are those who watched them regularly in their leagues.
Otherwise it's secondhand information, often with key points glorified to make the player sound more capable than he is.

We're not gonna have to wait long to see him, fortunately. Don't need to listen to anybody.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I mean, this is the first time in like 6 seasons that Sid won't be playing with a top 10-15 LW.

pixie, you're all over the map once again. At first you said there's nothing wrong with DOC on the top line, but then you switch to "well he had Jake prior" as though that refutes my point about going into the season with DOC on the 1st line.

The point is Sid (and Geno) need more players similar to Jake and less a reversion to these 30-40 point players on their flanks. DOC is the type of player we used to see next to Sid when he was at his peak. It's not the type of player we should see next to Sid facing the opposition's top defenders when Sid's 37 years old.

Pronman gets a boner for any player with video game flash. I'm not convinced he doesn't just filter all ratings through who he thinks has the fastest hands and the hardest shots. That's why he rated Laine over Matthews, or was so high on Sprong compared to everybody else.

Pronman places an emphasis on fancy puck skills and skating over all else. It's why he declared that Nikita Filotov would no doubt be a superstar and why Rocco Grimaldo was ranked ahead of a "jack of all trades, master of none" player like Landeskog in their draft year.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Why would you dump Bunting and Rust, when they were very good last year.

"Why wouldn't you?" is a better question. Their value is in a good place and the Pens need picks way more than standings points this year.
Also in Rust's case, you can use the 20.5M he'd leave behind to generate even more picks.

If the return will be better at the deadline then sure, wait. If not, pull that trigger.

 

[Gurglesons]

pixie, you're all over the map once again. At first you said there's nothing wrong with DOC on the top line, but then you switch to "well he had Jake prior" as though that refutes my point about going into the season with DOC on the 1st line.

The point is Sid (and Geno) need more players similar to Jake and less a reversion to these 30-40 point players on their flanks. DOC is the type of player we used to see next to Sid when he was at his peak. It's not the type of player we should see next to Sid facing the opposition's top defenders when Sid's 37 years old.


Pronman places an emphasis on fancy puck skills and skating over all else. It's why he declared that Nikita Filotov would no doubt be a superstar and why Rocco Grimaldo was ranked ahead of a "jack of all trades, master of none" player like Landeskog in their draft year.

I’m not sure what teams have multiple Jake Guentzel’s.

It’s annoying that Dubas didn’t bring in a top LW to replace him, but since he didn’t I’d rather have McGroarty and DOC battling out for that spot. Instead Beauvillier will play 60+ games there.

 

[DrDangles]

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

I've seen kids playing Junior A that are better skaters than him, but I'm not necessarily down about it. Good players can succeed in spite of skating ability, and I think he's a safer bet to be impactful at the NHL in comparison to Yager. But the league is obviously moving in a direction where those guys are going to be left behind eventually.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Pronman has Pickering as a better prospect than either Yager or McGroarty, which I think anyone who has followed Penguins prospects would argue is criminally stupid.

So does Elite Prospects. “Criminally stupid” seems like overkill.

Edit: I’m incorrect. Was thinking of Yager (who Pickering is ranked higher than). Looks like he is 7 spots behind McG.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Why would you dump Bunting and Rust, when they were very good last year.

If we're going to suck, and mate sorry for the spoiler alert because we definitely will, we might as well be entertaining in some way.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm down. I think it's better to get what you can for those three via trade and start stockpiling the top-10, maybe top-5 picks for the post-Sid/Geno era, as opposed to staying the course and continuing to end up in this no man's land where they're picking 15th overall.

Exactly, listen I get some blokes are like "Why would you trade _____ they were good for us!" well this team isn't good anymore, we're likely not a playoff team again so why is this team insisting upon masquerading like some team that still wants to give it the ol' fashioned try?

They took on Hayes for picks.
They took on Glass for picks.

We know what's up, Dubas needs to stop messing about with the tip and go all in here, load up on picks and as many young players as he can, if there's a team that's maybe looking to move a prospect that hasn't worked out and they're still young, throw that son'bitch in as well while they dump similar players in those situations. Malkin is possibly done after this season, Crosby might not even extend, so what the f*** is this team hanging on to these players for? The sooner they rip this band-aid off, the better. I mean ok you keep some of the blokes you take on as cap dumps or lateral swaps of cap hits to get picks in return, fine by me. Like Kevin Hayes or Cody Glass will get a chance at redemption and see if they can garner some interest around the league next off season or whatever.

I think most of these players with NTC/NMC are probably open to moving at this point. I also saw that Jake interview, he can talk however niceties he wants, we knew he was always going to test the market, Kyle could have waited to sign him in the off season only for him to walk and I feel like he definitely would have because Jake stated he wanted to get a chance at more playoffs and going deep, that was not happening in Pittsburgh with him or without him. I think most are open to being moved that have those clauses.

At the TDL this team should not be buyers for a run, they should be buyers for draft capital and swapping cap hits to keep piling those up. They can quickly go from the 26th ranked prospect pool middle of the pack with more picks and more of these trades like Rutger for Yager, etc.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Yup, as I said in the past, if you make a list of attributes that you want in a Sidney Crosby left wing and make them 23, the machine shits you out, McGroarty.

I don't agree with the comparison of Chris Kunitz at all, Kunitz always over compensated for his size by throwing a ton of hits and being hard on the forecheck because of his speed and physical game. For me, watching a lot of his footage I feel like a very good comparison is Carter Verhaeghe actually, not the late bloomer stuff but the game overall. Carter wasn't a burner by any stretch, same size as well, but his skating was above average and was also a solid 200ft player that had good playmaking abilities but also could score goals as many have noticed. I remember reading about Carter when he was dealt from the Bolts to Florida, the playoffs he had it was like hold up this lad might blow up for the Panthers (and he did, more than any of us could have predicted) but his scouting report basically read like Rutger's but without the same hype as Rutger comes with, definitely a high ceiling with McGroarty and his skills are better at the same age than Carter's was, but I mean in the end Verhaeghe worked on enough of his shooting, skating, etc to score 76 goals the last 2 seasons combined (42 and 34). I do like that Rutger has worked on his agility, he might not be quicker than he needs to be yet but he's shown he can work that area to minimize the gap.

I mean I want to see how Rutger does in camp, I think maybe he could thrive with Rust stretching the ice for him or really even with Rakell and I think with Malkin he would definitely shoot more but whatever I'd love to see him tried with either, I do remember Bunting was playing a decent amount with Sid last season as well as Geno. But I think throwing him up there that soon might not be great either and just playing devils advocate with that, I'm not saying Sullivan the lad into 4th line duty, but maybe go with Geno first or a fun combo of McGroarty, Hayes, Puustinen in camp, it takes the pressure off of him and lets him build momentum to move up. Leafs did that with Knies as well, most of the season he spent on the 3rd line and was shifted up into the top 6. I like the potential of McGroarty, I just don't to see it squandered because they got overzealous.

I wouldn't be disappointed at all if he doesn't make the roster, I'm 100% fine with him starting in WBS to get a lot of ice time, PK time, PP time, play in every situation possible and work some kinks out of his game. I think very highly of the lad as a prospect.

 

[eXile3]

I have yet to figure out why so many people insist on being down about McGroarty. Before being traded here he was universally praised as a high quality prospect with good leadership skills. He gets traded here and now there's major doubts by everyone and oh man, how could they give up Yager.

It's like trading a 2nd for a 1st and being like "well, we do better in the 2nd round so bad pick".

I’ve noticed this as well. The narrative on him turned almost immediately after he was traded. People on YouTube picking apart every bit of his game.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bunting is gonna be ass now that Sullivan has had enough time as his coach.

Bunting, after Dubas picked him up for the Leafs, has been a pretty consistent 50pt minimum type of winger that does his shtick fairly well.

The one good thing about Bunting is that he's basically Sullivan proof and honestly I kind of want to see him yet to use him like ass and see Dubas be like wtf.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What people who want to sell off absolutely everything either don't realize or don't want to acknowledge is that its the totality of the organization that Dubas has to consider.

Crosby is too important to the Penguins to strip it down completely - they have to at least try to compete while he's here to keep things on good terms. Filling seats is important, and you're not doing that nearly as consistently if Crosby's not in the fold.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I’ve noticed this as well. The narrative on him turned almost immediately after he was traded. People on YouTube picking apart every bit of his game.

It's no different than blokes here thinking all of our prospects are crap. It's this assumption that the Pens can't draft anyone decent because we never see any come up from within and do well and Sullivan also makes sure of that in his ways as well. But Rutger, most Jets fans are super pissed at him and have been shitting all over him on reddit, here, and other forums so there's that too.

Otherwise if you look at any of his scouting comments prior to this summer, it's all glowing reviews of a future top 6 winger and Captain material. Personally I think it's great we basically picked up our own Verhaeghe type.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

What people who want to sell off absolutely everything either don't realize or don't want to acknowledge is that its the totality of the organization that Dubas has to consider.

Crosby is too important to the Penguins to strip it down completely - they have to at least try to compete while he's here to keep things on good terms. Filling seats is important, and you're not doing that nearly as consistently if Crosby's not in the fold.

There's a reason Crosby hasn't re-signed yet. Also Sullivan literally had Sid and Geno healthy for two seasons and didn't do shit with it. So icing a competitive roster while pretending to be some bubble team doesn't really fool anyone anymore and selling off parts slowly does more damage imo than ripping the band-aid off quicker to give fans a better picture of what this team could be post Crosby and Malkin.

The worst is when these franchises hang on forever with these legends and don't do what they should have done sooner.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

There's a reason Crosby hasn't re-signed yet. Also Sullivan literally had Sid and Geno healthy for two seasons and didn't do shit with it. So icing a competitive roster while pretending to be some bubble team doesn't really fool anyone anymore and selling off parts slowly does more damage imo than ripping the band-aid off quicker to give fans a better picture of what this team could be post Crosby and Malkin.

The worst is when these franchises hang on forever with these legends and don't do what they should have done sooner.

We really don't know the reason.

Crosby's a top 5 player of all-time and arguably the best leader of all-time in terms of how to conduct yourself and show up every night. Not only is retaining that as part of your organization more valuable than tanking for a non-generational player, but Pittsburgh is a town that needs a reason to show up for games. Last time they didn't, they nearly lost the franchise. Businesses need to be profitable.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

We really don't know the reason.

Crosby's a top 5 player of all-time and arguably the best leader of all-time in terms of how to conduct yourself and show up every night. Not only is retaining that as part of your organization more valuable than tanking for a non-generational player, but Pittsburgh is a town that needs a reason to show up for games. Last time they didn't, they nearly lost the franchise. Businesses need to be profitable.

You know better than to think that's how the Pens almost lost the team. It was far more than that and to minimize it to just because fans didn't show up isn't correct.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

For the record I STILL think Crosby basically shows up for camp and almost immediately signs whatever they have prepared for him.

But shits getting a little spooky for sure.

Going into the season with an un-signed Sidney Crosby seems like a "writing is on the wall" moment, to me.

 

[Gurglesons]

In someways it’d be cool if Sid pulled a Tkachuk and we traded him for a haul and then he re-signed with us.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In someways it’d be cool if Sid pulled a Tkachuk and we traded him for a haul and then he re-signed with us.

That little quarter-season with another team on his career stat sheet would drive Crosby insane haha

 

[Sorry]

For the record I STILL think Crosby basically shows up for camp and almost immediately signs whatever they have prepared for him.

But shits getting a little spooky for sure.

I just don't get why he hasn't signed an extension unless FSG is lowballing his camp. Even if the Pens are way out of contending for a playoff spot come the trade deadline and he would like to move on during his twilight, he is way more manageable to trade, and get maximum value, with a two year extension than he is without. I would like to think Sid and his camp understands that and would like to help out the organization as much as possible. Though, the organization owes him way more than he owes them.

Still, yeah, spooky is a good word. As a fan I don't want the dream ride of the last twenty years to end abruptly but at the end of the day it's a business. Moving on from a player like Sid and being left holding a bag after the trade that doesn't include at least two impact young players would be a disaster.

 

[Ulf5]

I just don't get why he hasn't signed an extension unless FSG is lowballing his camp. Even if the Pens are way out of contending for a playoff spot come the trade deadline and he would like to move on during his twilight, he is way more manageable to trade, and get maximum value, with a two year extension than he is without. I would like to think Sid and his camp understands that and would like to help out the organization as much as possible. Though, the organization owes him way more than he owes them.

Still, yeah, spooky is a good word. As a fan I don't want the dream ride of the last twenty years to end abruptly but at the end of the day it's a business. Moving on from a player like Sid and being left holding a bag after the trade that doesn't include at least two impact young players would be a disaster.

Fwiw, if anything:
10:05 AM - SEPTEMBER 3, 2024 DOWNTOWN
I’d mentioned late last week that an announcement was coming really soon. My guess is they waited a couple extra days for the same reason the entire hockey world was silenced through the weekend.

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