Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Gurglesons]

Is Zadina worth giving a PTO to? Obviously if we can move out 1 or 2 players from now to the start of the season! Still 24 years old


Completely agree, I would love to find out though if a full rebuild was part of their plan but they got shut down by ownership because of the stars on the team. Because in that case GMJR wanted to move Letang according to rumors

My understanding is Zadina already signed a PTO with Buffalo.

 

[eXile3]

Is Zadina worth giving a PTO to? Obviously if we can move out 1 or 2 players from now to the start of the season! Still 24 years old


Completely agree, I would love to find out though if a full rebuild was part of their plan but they got shut down by ownership because of the stars on the team. Because in that case GMJR wanted to move Letang according to rumors

Rebuild, compete for a cup, I get both arguments. This middle of the road stuff though has me worried.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

My understanding is Zadina already signed a PTO with Buffalo.

It looks like it's not official and a false report last I saw

 

[Gurglesons]

It looks like it's not official and a false report last I saw

Well. He has no spot here. Every RW we have is better than him IMO.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Rebuild, compete for a cup, I get both arguments. This middle of the road stuff though has me worried.

Yup, and that's why I think it's coming from ownership not letting them take such decision. The only way we might see a change and a vision going forward, is if one of the big 3 ask for a trade. Say if Crosby really says no thank you to an extension or if the Letang rumors are true. I'm not sure the fact that Guentzel wanted out is key enough for ownership. It's got to be 58-71-87 asking out!

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The only thing about Crosby telling the Penguins to sit and spin that would be funny to me are the inevitable cluster of Penguins fans assuring everyone that arguably the most important player in franchise history being disgusted enough to walk is actually a really smart and good thing. And doesn't at all make the whole franchise look like a giant clown car.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

What’s going on with Crosby’s extension guys? Any news on that matter?

The Penguins are too busy announcing special bobblehead nights because I'm sure they aren't desperate to sell tickets.

If they could find a way to have fireworks nights, they'd be the Pirates.

 

[Gurglesons]

The only thing about Crosby telling the Penguins to sit and spin that would be funny to me are the inevitable cluster of Penguins fans assuring everyone that arguably the most important player in franchise history being disgusted enough to walk is actually a really smart and good thing. And doesn't at all make the whole franchise look like a giant clown car.

They'll just blame Ron Hextall while ignoring Dubas traded Crosby's linemate for Michael Bunting and a bunch of trash then did nothing to replace him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't need a pic, I was around for "The Option Line", and Robbie Brown when he still had some hair.

This reminds me of something I was thinking about a few days ago. I usually listen to sports events at night and I was playing some late 80s Penguins games, how did they have such a major change from 1988-1989 and 1990-1991? It's like night and day with those teams.

My guess is that it was Eddie Johnston getting fired and Patrick replacing him, but it was before my time.

 

[Gurglesons]

This reminds me of something I was thinking about a few days ago. I usually listen to sports events at night and I was playing some late 80s Penguins games, how did they have such a major change from 1988-1989 and 1990-1991? It's like night and day with those teams.

My guess is that it was Eddie Johnston getting fired and Patrick replacing him, but it was before my time.

What do you mean by major change?

Like why were they so good in 90-91 and not in 88-89?

 

[pistolpete11]

Rebuild, compete for a cup, I get both arguments. This middle of the road stuff though has me worried.

I'm OK being in middle of the road as long as when it comes down to it, they trade the Pettersson's, Rust's, Rakell's, Karlsson's, Bunting's, etc. I really don't think the returns would be much different trading them now vs. trading them in a year or 2 (for those still under contract of course), so sure. As unlikely as it is, give Sid and Geno a reasonable chance to get back into the playoffs. Just don't sacrifice the future to do it.

McGroarty might have saved the offseason for me as all I really wanted them to do was to take on a high upside guy for LW1....well and fire Sullivan.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sid sneering in disgust at the state of the team and ultimately refusing to re-sign would be absolutely f***ing hilarious to me. And ironic, because his refusal to speak up in criticism of Sullivan is kiiiiiiiiinda a huge part of the reason the guy's still coaching despite this team falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down for nearly a decade at this point.

But hey, can't say that. It's not Sid's job, or something.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What do you mean by major change?

Like why were they so good in 90-91 and not in 88-89?

How they went from being mostly a 1 line team with Errey-Lemieux-Brown plus Paul Coffey to having like 9 future HOFers 2 years later.

Not to insult guys like Dan Quinn, Randy Cunneyworth and John Cullen, but having guys like Trottier, Francis, Murphy and Mullen are such massively bigger names looking back on it.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

How they went from being mostly a 1 line team with Errey-Lemieux-Brown plus Paul Coffey to having like 9 future HOFers 2 years later.

Not to insult guys like Dan Quinn, Randy Cunneyworth and John Cullen, but having guys like Trottier, Francis, Murphy and Mullen are such massively bigger names looking back on it.

The Pens made some great trades, sending Chris Dahlquist and Jim Johnson to the North Stars for Larry Murphy and Peter Taglianetti, who they ironically met in May in the Cup Finals, and also sending a draft pick to Calgary for Joe Mullen, who had played for Bob Johnson with the Flames.

 

[Gurglesons]

How they went from being mostly a 1 line team with Errey-Lemieux-Brown plus Paul Coffey to having like 9 future HOFers 2 years later.

Not to insult guys like Dan Quinn, Randy Cunneyworth and John Cullen, but having guys like Trottier, Francis, Murphy and Mullen are such massively bigger names looking back on it.

Well. Stevens and Recchi broke out in 89-90.

They added Murphy then Mullen in a trade. Then the big one with Samuelsson and Francis.

Also had one of the best motivators in the room in Badger Bob.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

And how could I forget the freaking Francis trade?

 

[WickedWrister]

Anyone have a link to this media availability?

 

[Andy99]

I'm so old I had to do a search to confirm for myself that that was Stevens-Cullen-Recchi ... and then I got mad and yelled at a cloud when the top result, a Bleacher Report article, claimed Cullen was traded to Carolina. (Am I surprised? No, just disappointed that SEO internal link strategy triumphs over historical accuracy.)

Anyway, no pic to share. Wish someone had photographed my bedroom wall with the Pittsburgh Press' full-page Pens schedule and my handwritten game scores next to each.

Yeah, I wish someone had the foresight to photograph me at Mario’s first game at the Igloo for posterity sake…if only we known the internet was about to be developed and I’d need “street cred” lol

 

[Pens1566]

How they went from being mostly a 1 line team with Errey-Lemieux-Brown plus Paul Coffey to having like 9 future HOFers 2 years later.

Not to insult guys like Dan Quinn, Randy Cunneyworth and John Cullen, but having guys like Trottier, Francis, Murphy and Mullen are such massively bigger names looking back on it.

For me the real turning point was the Francis trade. Gave up youth and intriguing promise (Cullen/Zalapski) for veteran presence and some snarl. The Tocchet trade a year later was also pretty big.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Nothing is ever Doobler’s fault. Not his playoff failures with an elite core for the better part of a decade in Toronto. Not coming to Pittsburgh, blowing his wad and a 1st round pick and doing even worse the following year. Not even when he has both the GM and President positions and literally all the power…nope, still not his fault.

Doobler SUCKS, man. It might take you a while, maybe even a couple years to figure out the truth, as it did for Leafs fans. But one day, you’ll see it clear as day, just as they did.

I believe in weighing things fairly, instead of just succumbing to my feelings and forcing narratives I desire. Emotions cloud our judgment. We have shining examples of that on the board.

Put in the work. Make a list of everything he's done here, assess the moves and give sound rationale why they're good, neutral or bad. Ignore your emotions. What are the facts?

The only trade I consider an L is the Karlsson trade. Those contracts we unloaded only had 2 years left, max. Should have just let them run out and be free. That was not good justification to discard a 1st at a time where prospects should be our top priority, instead of trying to win against far superior teams in the playoffs to honor the core. That was an ego-driven move. It was his "Hey look, I'm here now" trade.
The good news? EK can still be dealt at 50%, and get quality in return.

People point to the Jarry and Graves signings as being the worst.
Jarry was easily the best goalie on the market at the time of signing. There wasn't even a good goalie they could realistically trade for, not without damaging the prospect pool. The 2nd best goalie available at the time just was league worst in Ottawa last season.
Jarry was above league average last year and probably will be tradeable without sweeteners later. This one's really not that bad, if one gives a crap about context. It's not like Boston was trading Ullmark yet.

The Graves signing assessments are being made with the benefit of hindsight. GMs don't see the future at the time they make them. Graves regressed here, after a very strong season in NJD the year before. He's also had other very strong seasons before that.
Furthermore, nothing is over. He's only about to enter year 2 of the deal. He may rebound. It's too early for such certainty.

That Leafs Dubas era is their best regular season stretch in the franchise's history.
They sucked in the playoffs for 2 weeks, sure, granted. They also faced super strong opponents in most of those years, because of this unjust Wild Card format, which sucks at rewarding performance.
Although certainly the Montreal and Columbus series needed to be W's.

 

[SEALBound]

This reminds me of something I was thinking about a few days ago. I usually listen to sports events at night and I was playing some late 80s Penguins games, how did they have such a major change from 1988-1989 and 1990-1991? It's like night and day with those teams.

My guess is that it was Eddie Johnston getting fired and Patrick replacing him, but it was before my time.

I was pretty young but more or less, that 89 team was a one-line team. It was Mario on a rampage and everyone else was a passenger. Coffey did his part on the backend and Rob Brown made the most of it. Beyond that, it was ten tonnes of mediocrity. Maybe reminds me of the 2012 team where it was Kunitz-Malkin-Neal and then a bunch of crap. You had Malkin on a rampage, Neal riding shotgun, and Letang doing his thing on the backend.

Come 1990-91, they had made some good trades that really bolstered the quality of the depth. They now had Recchi, Mullen, Stevens, Trottier, a rookie Jagr (who was potting as many points as a 18yo as anyone on the 89 team not named Mario or Brown). Then they made the Francis trade. That REALLY solidified the forward group. Cullen was good but I never thought he had that "oomphf", ya know? Francis was a whole different ballgame. That's like going from Staal as your 2C to Bergeron.

You also had Badger Bob Johnson as the head coach which helped a lot too. I can't remember who the 89 coach was Badger Bob was as much of a star on that 91 team as anyone. Think Sullivan circa 2016/17. He was the perfect personality and coach for that team at that time.

Those late 80s and early 90s teams were fun to follow. It started to get tough after Mario left. Up until 97-98, they still made awesome player-for-player trades. They never really solved goaltending, though. After Mario left, it got tougher. They were a top 6 plus shit team. Mario's coming back helped the forward group a ton, but everything else was still mediocre at best. Tough for them to compete against the higher salary roll teams. 2001 was still a heart break for me and I wish it would have ended different for that team but we did get to see Bourque raise the cup which was an all-time hockey moment. Tough to stay if I would give that moment up for another Pens cup.

 

[SEALBound]

Sid sneering in disgust at the state of the team and ultimately refusing to re-sign would be absolutely f***ing hilarious to me. And ironic, because his refusal to speak up in criticism of Sullivan is kiiiiiiiiinda a huge part of the reason the guy's still coaching despite this team falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down for nearly a decade at this point.

But hey, can't say that. It's not Sid's job, or something.

Ultimate twist:

Sid bales and Sullivan says "hey, I'm free!" and finds himself a different NHL coaching job. A new coach comes in and leads the Malkin-led team to a Cup going 16-0 in the playoffs behind a McGroarty-Malkin-Rust first line and Blomqvist/Murashov goalie tandem.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Nothing is ever Doobler’s fault. Not his playoff failures with an elite core for the better part of a decade in Toronto. Not coming to Pittsburgh, blowing his wad and a 1st round pick and doing even worse the following year. Not even when he has both the GM and President positions and literally all the power…nope, still not his fault.

Doobler SUCKS, man. It might take you a while, maybe even a couple years to figure out the truth, as it did for Leafs fans. But one day, you’ll see it clear as day, just as they did.

Is that on him or the lack of assets he started with?

He made a big trade it looked good till Karlsson got his game coached out of him.

How does he go from looking amazing to losing swagger.

I believe in weighing things fairly, instead of just succumbing to my feelings and forcing narratives I desire. Emotions cloud our judgment. We have shining examples of that on the board.

Put in the work. Make a list of everything he's done here, assess the moves and give sound rationale why they're good, neutral or bad. Ignore your emotions. What are the facts?

The only trade I consider an L is the Karlsson trade. Those contracts we unloaded only had 2 years left, max. Should have just let them run out and be free. That was not good justification to discard a 1st at a time where prospects should be our top priority, instead of trying to win against far superior teams in the playoffs to honor the core. That was an ego-driven move. It was his "Hey look, I'm here now" trade.
The good news? EK can still be dealt at 50%, and get quality in return.

People point to the Jarry and Graves signings as being the worst.
Jarry was easily the best goalie on the market at the time of signing. There wasn't even a good goalie they could realistically trade for, not without damaging the prospect pool. The 2nd best goalie available at the time just was league worst in Ottawa last season.
Jarry was above league average last year and probably will be tradeable without sweeteners later. This one's really not that bad, if one gives a crap about context. It's not like Boston was trading Ullmark yet.

The Graves signing assessments are being made with the benefit of hindsight. GMs don't see the future at the time they make them. Graves regressed here, after a very strong season in NJD the year before. He's also had other very strong seasons before that.
Furthermore, nothing is over. He's only about to enter year 2 of the deal. He may rebound. It's too early for such certainty.

That Leafs Dubas era is their best regular season stretch in the franchise's history.
They sucked in the playoffs for 2 weeks, sure, granted. They also faced super strong opponents in most of those years, because of this unjust Wild Card format, which sucks at rewarding performance.
Although certainly the Montreal and Columbus series needed to be W's.

We are penguin fans so not everyone is aware of this but Dubas wanted to trade a core 4 player and Shanahan told him no.

Who has been there the whole entire time and helped re sign Nylander which has been a playoff performer but Shanahan. Every step of the way.

I think he was handcuffed there and I think here he may be handcuffed by Ownership a bit.

--

Karlsson trade he took a swing and missed.
Guentzel trade got back assets and a LW.

 

[WickedWrister]

Anyone have a link to this media availability?

 

[The Old Master]

Sid sneering in disgust at the state of the team and ultimately refusing to re-sign would be absolutely f***ing hilarious to me. And ironic, because his refusal to speak up in criticism of Sullivan is kiiiiiiiiinda a huge part of the reason the guy's still coaching despite this team falling out of the ugly tree and hitting every branch on the way down for nearly a decade at this point.

But hey, can't say that. It's not Sid's job, or something.

he just wants to shorten camp.