Salary Cap: Pens Summer Salary Thread: Dull days of August... Oooo! A trade!

[Honour Over Glory]

It’s the sum of all the parts for a Stanley Cup roster. Some play better than their cap hit, some don’t. Some excel in particular skills , some are okay at everything, some are elite. Some are older, some are younger.

Now how do you get them. Well it’s a combo of drafting, trading and free agency. Sometimes a GM can make some of those happen, other times it’s waiting and sometimes you just gotta deal with what’s available.

Crazy that anyone thinks McGroarty can’t be a part of something here. He’s f***ing 20 There’s no time limits on rebuilds. It can be a quick turnaround or it can take a real long time (especially if you f*** up like Edmonton).

I feel sorry for McGroarty, in about 3-4yrs when he hits 24-25 aka his prime years, he'll be left with nothing unless this team plays poorly enough to draft high enough to land more talent for him to play with or he asks to be traded.

It's still funny that Sid hasn't extended yet.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Unserious posts get unserious replies

If you want my actual thoughts your logic is really stupid. Basically the Pens should have no good players until they are serious contenders again. How do you think you become a serious contender?

Like are they just not supposed to draft or add anyone until like 2032? they can’t fold the franchise until Aurora Borealis sees fit.

No. You gain now to develop them and boost their value. Then you cycle them out for things that match your timeline later. Then at that time you have a young core who's best years match the window. That in itself will expand the duration of the window.
What I said is that the trade is good, but that steps need to be taken to consolidate it.

Anyways, keep lashing out insults without actually understanding anything.

This is effectively the argument being made, any improvements this team makes are negatives because they need to be as bad as possible as soon as possible to be good again in the future.

Wrong. Another arrogant poster who assumes they understand, but don't.

You can make improvements now. Those gains need to be worth more than what you lose with drafting lower though. It's the +/- concept.
It's possible McGroarty can be that, depending on what they do with him, and when they will actually be contenders again.
I personally think that's much further away than 4-5 years though. Some optimists disagree.
I don't think he's even gonna be here when they're seriously Cup chasing, so I'm more interested in what he will command in trade later (if they take that route).

Crazy that anyone thinks McGroarty can’t be a part of something here. He’s f***ing 20 There’s no time limits on rebuilds. It can be a quick turnaround or it can take a real long time (especially if you f*** up like Edmonton).

Then what year do you think the Pens are in round 3 again?

 

[Gurglesons]

I feel sorry for McGroarty, in about 3-4yrs when he hits 24-25 aka his prime years, he'll be left with nothing unless this team plays poorly enough to draft high enough to land more talent for him to play with or he asks to be traded.

It's still funny that Sid hasn't extended yet.

That's actually a good thing. We can trade him for a haul if he pans out and kick start the rebuild or have a young 25 year old to build around

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's actually a good thing. We can trade him for a haul if he pans out and kick start the rebuild or have a young 25 year old to build around

You mean before or after Sullivan turns him into the next great Noel Acciari?

 

[Gurglesons]

No. You gain now to develop them and boost their value. Then you cycle them out for things that match your timeline later. Then at that time you have a young core who's best years match the window. That in itself will expand the duration of the window.
What I said is that the trade is good, but that steps need to be taken to consolidate it.

Anyways, keep lashing out insults without actually understanding anything.

Wrong. Another arrogant poster who assumes they understand, but don't.

You can make improvements now. Those gains need to be worth more than what you lose with drafting lower though. It's the +/- concept.
It's possible McGroarty can be that, depending on what they do with him, and when they will actually be contenders again.
I personally think that's much further away than 4-5 years though. Some optimists disagree.
I don't think he's even gonna be here when they're seriously Cup chasing, so I'm more interested in what he will command in trade later (if they take that route).


Then what year do you think the Pens are in round 3 again?

God man. You *literally* do this all the time.

You mean before or after Sullivan turns him into the next great Noel Acciari?

I don't think Sullivan will do this with McGroarty tbh. He's a big time USA guy who plays a hungry, two way game, "the right way". He's exactly the type of player that Sullivan will give rope to regardless of age.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

God man. You *literally* do this all the time.



I don't think Sullivan will do this with McGroarty tbh. He's a big time USA guy who plays a hungry, two way game, "the right way". He's exactly the type of player that Sullivan will give rope to regardless of age.

Listen for as much as I want McGroarty to succeed, I also want McGroarty to be used so egregiously that Kyle Dubas sees, the media calls it out, his biggest defenders call him on it and Kyle is so pissed that he fires the f***ing twat Mike Sullivan. I am more disappointed he won't get outed as an imposter until later when the World Cup happens and by then, he'll have done more damage to this team and its future.

 

[Gurglesons]

Listen for as much as I want McGroarty to succeed, I also want McGroarty to be used so egregiously that Kyle Dubas sees, the media calls it out, his biggest defenders call him on it and Kyle is so pissed that he fires the f***ing twat Mike Sullivan. I am more disappointed he won't get outed as an imposter until later when the World Cup happens and by then, he'll have done more damage to this team and its future.

I mean it's a win / win. Either Sullivan finds a role for him or Dubas likely fires him. He can't botch prospects development if Dubas' plan is building a new group while Sid is here.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Then what year do you think the Pens are in round 3 again?

I’m not really sure. We take it year by year and keep assessing the roster which I’m sure Dubas will do.

 

[K Fleur]

Rico Fata was one of the fastest skaters I’ve ever see and he was 6 foot. Too bad he just sucked.

 

[Turin]

Being a REBUILLLDER (oh f*** I’m gonna rebuild) has shattered the minds of many.

You should always get good players when you can and upgrade your players when you can, no matter what. Players, picks and cap space are all assets and if somebody is willing to give you a player you think is better than your player then that’s good business. Simple as.

 

[Jacob]

I think another McGroarty and a young goaltender, which we may already have in the system, is the perfect buffer to segue us into the next era.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

God man. You *literally* do this all the time.

Not my fault the reading comprehension level is dogwater here.

It's funny how Peat never had issues understanding me and didn't create fictional narratives based on something I never said.
Why do you think that is?
It's a lot easier when you're patient, respectful and not blinded by emotions. Also easier when your primary objective is to have a good discussion.

It was so nice when I didn't have to explain what I said a 2nd or 3rd time just to get simple points across, because all people care about on the other end is making other users look bad.

I ask people to please just not reply to me if they're not gonna take the time to read and understand what I say. If you got a personal issue, the block option is available.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think another McGroarty and a young goaltender, which we may already have in the system, is the perfect buffer to segue us into the next era.

If we totally have a shit year this year, it'd probably be the best thing for our "soft retool".

A top five pick and selling off assets this deadline gives us a ton of picks to actually be able to do something next season.

Not my fault the reading comprehension level is dogwater here.

It's funny how Peat never had issues understanding me and didn't create fictional narratives based on something I never said.
Why do you think that is?
It's a lot easier when you're patient, respectful and not blinded by emotions. Also easier when your primary objective is to have a good discussion.

It was so nice when I didn't have to explain what I said a 2nd or 3rd time just to get simple points across, because all people care about on the other end is making other users look bad.

I ask people to please just not reply to me if they're not gonna take the time to read and understand what I say. If you got a personal issue, the block option is available.

I mean, if it's so bad here and all you want to do is talk about the old days, there are plenty of other Penguins discussion avenues.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Wrong. Another arrogant poster who assumes they understand, but don't.

You can make improvements now. Those gains need to be worth more than what you lose with drafting lower though. It's the +/- concept.
It's possible McGroarty can be that, depending on what they do with him, and when they will actually be contenders again.
I personally think that's much further away than 4-5 years though. Some optimists disagree.
I don't think he's even gonna be here when they're seriously Cup chasing, so I'm more interested in what he will command in trade later (if they take that route).

Or you can actually view things as the positive they are and gradually adjust the plan based on what happens, rather than saying "anything good that happens to this team is bad because it hurts their draft position".

If McGroarty ends up being Matthew Tkachuk 2.0, that is a franchise piece that is very likely their next captain. I'm not going to be gushing about his trade value if the dude can pan out to that level. Looking at a piece like McGroarty thinking "what can we trade this guy for in 2030 if he pans out" is just insanely depressing, to the point where I don't understand why you'd even want to be a fan with such a negative outlook.

There are a lot of people on here jaded with the past few years, but looking at a 20 year old top prospect with the viewpoint of "what can we get for this guy in a rebuilding trade in 6 years" is excessive even for this board's standards.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I’m not really worried about Sullivan with McGroarty. Much more concerned about him and Cody Glass.

It’s pretty sweet we wound up with both these guys, TBH. I know you’ve hated on Dubas, but i can’t complain about these recent adds.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not someone who would argue that this team is going to be able to rebuild quickly after the current core retires, but I think people need to realize the inherent uncertainty that comes with pro sports when talking about the future. Did anyone at the 2012 draft thing Murray would be in net for the Penguins for back to back cup wins within 5 years? Of course not. Most people in 2013 would have said the Penguins had a better D prospect pool than a F or G prospect pool, but it turned out that both their F and G pools were far better prospect pools. I'd bet that no one thought that Phil Kessel would be available 2 years before he was traded.

I understand being jaded in the short term, because things generally don't change massively in the short term. But 2030 is so far into the future that saying "McGroarty's value is what he'd bring back in picks as this team is rebuilding" is so ridiculous that it should be called out. I don't know what the team in 2025 is going to look like, let alone 2030.

All this team should just be focusing on getting as many good young players as possible. You can't predict the future, but you can be pretty confident that you'll continue to be a good team if you're continuously churning out good players. And if you turn out to be a bad team, you can trade those good players for picks to try to get more good players.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s pretty sweet we wound up with both these guys, TBH. I know you’ve hated on Dubas, but i can’t complain about these recent adds.

His UFA signings are annoying. And I don’t like the Hayes trade, but overall a successful summer.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Or you can actually view things as the positive they are and gradually adjust the plan based on what happens, rather than saying "anything good that happens to this team is bad because it hurts their draft position".

I said I liked the trade like 4 times now since it happened. At this time it's an inherently good thing.
However, if McGroarty stays here for half his career when the Pens aren't ready, that will turn into a bad thing. He will be eating big cap without purpose. That's because by then they could have cycled him out for someone younger who can help them more, and for longer, when it matters.
So it all depends on how close they are. No one can see the future. My gut says 2035 by the time they reach R3 again, when McGroarty's over 30. They have no 1C or 2Cs in the pipeline. Pickering is not looking at all like a horse 1D. Blomqvist is a big maybe. Same for Murashov.
They are not 5 years away, unless they seriously fluke out.

If McGroarty ends up being Matthew Tkachuk 2.0, that is a franchise piece that is very likely their next captain. I'm not going to be gushing about his trade value if the dude can pan out to that level. Looking at a piece like McGroarty thinking "what can we trade this guy for in 2030 if he pans out" is just insanely depressing, to the point where I don't understand why you'd even want to have a fan with such a negative outlook.

It's depressing because the Pens situation is depressing. That's not my fault. They put themselves in this position with delaying the inevitable, and prioritizing the retirement tour. They weakened their future foundation by letting assets deteriorate in value, and throwing huge cap at things that are slowing down their rebuild.
I'm just aligning myself with reality.

I kept it real when the Pens were winning Cups, saying a lot of positives and being hyped for a 3peat after getting Brassard. That's because at that time the optimism felt warranted.
We had depth, confidence, ambition. I didn't expect the Caps to play that well in the playoffs. No one did.
Now I'm keeping it real again. Lack of hope in any immediate future is warranted, because there's too much missing. I do have hope for the long-term future if Dubas stays here though.
I have full confidence in his ability to rebuild, if he's allowed to go all-in by ownership.

 

[Pancakes]

One of the reasons I like Rakell back on the Ducks for years was because he was a solid skater. Weird to hear that as a knock on Rakell.

Literally the most opposite thing I've ever heard about Raks. Even in his draft year when I was a fan and hoped the Pens would draft him, one of his strengths was his speed/skating. But nah, we needed f***ing Joe Morrow.

Rutger meanwhile has had comments about his skating basically his entire scouting as a prospect and even after his draft. It's an area that most cited as a concern but then try to lessen the blow by saying "but he's not slow" lol.

Once upon a time with the Ducks perhaps. He's not much of a skater now. Average.

 

[Gurglesons]

I said I liked the trade like 4 times now since it happened. At this time it's an inherently good thing.
However, if McGroarty stays here for half his career when the Pens aren't ready, that will turn into a bad thing. He will be eating big cap without purpose. That's because by then they could have cycled him out for someone younger who can help them more, and for longer, when it matters.
So it all depends on how close they are. No one can see the future. My gut says 2035 by the time they reach R3 again, when McGroarty's over 30. They have no 1C or 2Cs in the pipeline. Pickering is not looking at all like a horse 1D. Blomqvist is a big maybe. Same for Murashov.
They are not 5 years away, unless they seriously fluke out.

It's depressing because the Pens situation is depressing. That's not my fault. They put themselves in this position with delaying the inevitable, and prioritizing the retirement tour. They weakened their future foundation by letting assets deteriorate in value, and throwing huge cap at things that are slowing down their rebuild.
I'm just aligning myself with reality.

I kept it real when the Pens were winning Cups, saying a lot of positives and being hyped for a 3peat after getting Brassard. That's because at that time the optimism felt warranted.
We had depth, confidence, ambition. I didn't expect the Caps to play that well in the playoffs. No one did.
Now I'm keeping it real again. Lack of hope in any immediate future is warranted, because there's too much missing. I do have hope for the long-term future if Dubas stays here though.
I have full confidence in his ability to rebuild, if he's allowed to go all-in by ownership.

Take your own advice. You have a way you want to see this franchise ran and you believe that is the only way for future success.

If anything like we've talked about over the past couple weeks the go completely out of it model has not seen success for six years.

With players taking more advantage of their circumstances ala McGroarty, sucking for years to "build" assets is no longer a surefire way to build. Every team that has done it recently has been the definition of mediocrity outside of Edmonton.

 

[Gurglesons]

Funny fact. Just realized Petry out produced Matheson at 5v5 last year.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Funny fact. Just realized Petry out produced Matheson at 5v5 last year.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Take your own advice. You have a way you want to see this franchise ran and you believe that is the only way for future success.

If anything like we've talked about over the past couple weeks the go completely out of it model has not seen success for six years.

With players taking more advantage of their circumstances ala McGroarty, sucking for years to "build" assets is no longer a surefire way to build. Every team that has done it recently has been the definition of mediocrity outside of Edmonton.

In this team's situation? Yes, that is the path that they need to tread. Absolutely.
Re-tool on the fly is a half-measure they can't afford to do, if they want Cups in the next 10-15 years anyway. The chips they're willing to trade are too weak and too few in number to return players that will be proper, foundational pieces.
They're not in a position to discard such a massive amount of cap towards things that will not help them reach the summit later. They need to weaponize as much of it as possible, to compensate for years where GMs ignored the future.

Just because bad GMs or impatient, dumb ownership groups botch scorched earth doesn't mean they're not worth attempting. We have a good GM, one is a clever negotiator and has a very firm understanding of draft and development. A highly motivated former scout and GM of an AHL team for years. He will know how to do this.

Funny fact. Just realized Petry out produced Matheson at 5v5 last year.

Matheson with more points than EK overall at 4.88M.

 

[Mrs Crosby's Dryer]

I like the trade. Help now versus later. Would’ve loved to keep Yager, but you have to give to get.

Thing is though, wonder what jersey McGroarty is going to wear. Idiot Sullivan surely internally retired #2, so we’ll have to wait and see.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

No. You gain now to develop them and boost their value. Then you cycle them out for things that match your timeline later. Then at that time you have a young core who's best years match the window. That in itself will expand the duration of the window.
What I said is that the trade is good, but that steps need to be taken to consolidate it.

Anyways, keep lashing out insults without actually understanding anything.

I think youre misunderstanding by saying no one gets your post. People absolutely get it, its just extremely poor logic.

Say we pick 1OA in 2028, you really think a 24 year old McGroarty doesn’t fit that kids timeline?

Someone should have told the Pens they shouldn’t have kept all their graduating prospects like Malone (9 years older than Sid, UFA rights traded for nothing), Whitney (4 years older because college draft was different then, and traded for older player), Armstrong (4 years older, traded for older player), Orpik (5+ years older), Talbot (3 years older), Scuderi (7 years older) and traded them for more magic beans. Or used cap on Gonchar (30+ years old, over decade older than the core), Sykora, Fedetenko. Because they were poor fits age wise for the Crosby/Malkin window, and it shortened the duration of their window. Oh wait it was longest postseason streak in pro sports when it ended.. and they won 3x..