Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[MayorofWBS]

I'm not arguing that this top six works.

My argument with Rakell replacing Guentzel was that we could hypothetically do what you are saying and invest major money into a top six difference maker while utilizing lesser talent in the top six if we can get rid of one of the bloated contracts in Rust, Bunting, Rakell or Smith.

I'll be mad if we can't get rid of Reilly Smith this offseason with him only having one year left on his contract.

I'd take a future 7th round pick for Reilly Smith if the acquiring team also took Nieto too (no retaining on either one).

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Not sure who is getting worn down.

Crosby and Malkin both are getting worn down.

The issue is Malkin and Crosby are on an island and the bottom six depth players suck ass and are old.

The issue is that the top two lines are not producing enough with their cushy deployment.
The teams that give the bulk of their OZ starts to their top two lines are generally getting more scoring out of those lines.

Eller, Acciari, Carter, and the Harkins types are the issues with this roster, not Crosby and Malkin playing 1C and 2C.

Eller is having a fantastic season for his usage and is the exact type of player you would need in a situation where the bottom two lines are getting the bulk of the DZ starts.
Similarly, the Acciari types are who you need on the fourth line in this situation.
I agree that Carter is ill-suited for such a role.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I'll be mad if we can't get rid of Reilly Smith this offseason with him only having one year left on his contract.

I'd take a future 7th round pick for Reilly Smith if the acquiring team also took Nieto too (no retaining on either one).

He's definitely moveable.

One year at $5M is absolutely moveable for a pretty consistent 50pt guy and recent Cup winner. He may even crack 40 this year as a bad fit on a bad team. I think the only people wrong about Smith's value are the ones on this board.

More than anything, I would question whether Dubas wants to move him.

 

[Turin]

*jfresh chart with commentary from jfresh*

View attachment 843159


Amazing player by charts. 2.4 million dollar value at 4.5 million. Amazing stuff. Great trade. Overpaid top nine forward, what this team has always needed.

Yea he was having a bad year with Carolina. Good thing he has multiple years of showing much better results, results that people like Kapanen have gotten close to. You knew that, but you're just doing your thing again.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Smith is a 5ish million dollar blah middle six wing with no outstanding characteristics. We can't NOT have at least four of those on the roster at all times, guys.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Smith is what the coaching staff sees when they see Bunting “learning to play the right way.”

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Smith is a 5ish million dollar blah middle six wing with no outstanding characteristics. We can't NOT have at least four of those on the roster at all times, guys.

Out of all four of them, the only outstanding characteristic any of them brings is Rust with his drive to the net from the left wing. And he doesn't do that very often anymore. He did it the other day and I had almost forgotten about it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

(This post is by no means an endorsement of Smith, Bunting, or the Pittsburgh Penguins coaching staff.)

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't think we need to waste time discussing Matt Nieto trades. His contract can be buried in the AHL. Yes, I know. If he is on the roster, Sullivan will want him.

The key is going to be whether we can trade Eller, Smith, Jarry (in particular) for future assets, because we probably can't trade Graves and/or Rakell without sweetening from our end. And we need to avoid doing that. We need every future asset we have, and we need more than what we have right now. Acciari is a maybe. As a winger, I think he has a lot of value on THIS team. As a center, yeah trade him.

This team has way more energy now. St. Ivany, Poulin, Puljujarvi, Bunting, Puustinen, O'Connor...these guys are providing a spark. Not a massive impact, but enough to turn this train in the right direction (slowly).

They need to keep going in this direction. Dubas needs to FINALLY realize that Sullivan works best when he has an uncomfortable roster. When he does not know what he has in certain players, that is when we perform under this coach.

I am against moving Malkin to wing, but we do need to go with a more balanced approach up front. If we do land a major scoring weapon this off-season, probably via free agency, that player should play with Malkin and Bunting. If we cannot move a guy like Rakell, he could play a third-line role with some kids. Acciari could play with some other kids, too.

There is absolutely no reason to keep Reilly Smith or Lars Eller. You have potential replacements for both. Let's have a competitive training camp where jobs are actually available.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think we need to waste time discussing Matt Nieto trades. His contract can be buried in the AHL. Yes, I know. If he is on the roster, Sullivan will want him.

The key is going to be whether we can trade Eller, Smith, Jarry (in particular) for future assets, because we probably can't trade Graves and/or Rakell without sweetening from our end. And we need to avoid doing that. We need every future asset we have, and we need more than what we have right now. Acciari is a maybe. As a winger, I think he has a lot of value on THIS team. As a center, yeah trade him.

This team has way more energy now. St. Ivany, Poulin, Puljujarvi, Bunting, Puustinen, O'Connor...these guys are providing a spark. Not a massive impact, but enough to turn this train in the right direction (slowly).

They need to keep going in this direction. Dubas needs to FINALLY realize that Sullivan works best when he has an uncomfortable roster. When he does not know what he has in certain players, that is when we perform under this coach.

I am against moving Malkin to wing, but we do need to go with a more balanced approach up front. If we do land a major scoring weapon this off-season, probably via free agency, that player should play with Malkin and Bunting. If we cannot move a guy like Rakell, he could play a third-line role with some kids. Acciari could play with some other kids, too.

There is absolutely no reason to keep Reilly Smith or Lars Eller. You have potential replacements for both. Let's have a competitive training camp where jobs are actually available.

So how does Jeff Carter at 4M spread over two years grab ya?

Hey it's ONLY 2M a year, right? What price New Dad?

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

God this team and its wings are bland.

It's like Arrested Development, with George Michael's boring girlfriend Ann, whose name keeps getting replaced with other words by the characters on the show. Words like plain, egg, bland, and hog. Four words that could correspond to Rakell, Bunting, Smith, and Rust.

It's as Ann as the nose on plain's face.

 

[Gurglesons]

Out of all four of them, the only outstanding characteristic any of them brings is Rust with his drive to the net from the left wing. And he doesn't do that very often anymore. He did it the other day and I had almost forgotten about it.

Bryan Rust is the kind of winger that goes to another team and is an absolute lightning rod for that team as their 6th best forward.

The issue is our team thinks he's this untouchable amazing top line player.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea he was having a bad year with Carolina. Good thing he has multiple years of showing much better results, results that people like Kapanen have gotten close to. You knew that, but you're just doing your thing again.

Kapanen had similar Proj. WAR numbers to Bunting.

He also put up good metrics because he was strapped to Auston Matthews and company, just like Bunting did in Toronto.

The overall point was that players like Kapanen, Bunting, Smith, and even Rakell are what we keep targeting as top six options. These players mostly won't succeed in bottom six usage (Smith did in Vegas last season). They need top six usage, but they don't produce above their pay grade in those roles.

We could get away with having one or two Buntings, but we have 4.

I know it's hard for you to grasp. But that's the point I'm making.

 

[Pancakes]

I think our top six is fine at even strength. Even with Bunting over Guentzel.

The issue is our bottom six provides zero scoring at even strength and our powerplay is horrific. Both of those things need to be fixed if the Pens want any hope of contending next year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think our top six is fine at even strength. Even with Bunting over Guentzel.

The issue is our bottom six provides zero scoring at even strength and our powerplay is horrific. Both of those things need to be fixed if the Pens want any hope of contending next year.

Hey look they TRIED to fix the powerplay alright? There are no more Evgeni Malkins left to scapegoat so what else can be done?

 

[Gurglesons]

I think our top six is fine at even strength. Even with Bunting over Guentzel.

The issue is our bottom six provides zero scoring at even strength and our powerplay is horrific. Both of those things need to be fixed if the Pens want any hope of contending next year.

The top six as currently constructed is arguably the worst top six in our division.

CBJ is probably worse on paper, but Fantilli and their young Russian kids are electric.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

But can we have six Kris Letangs?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

But can we have six Kris Letangs?

No.

You can have one thoroughly neutered Erik Karlsson, though. He plays the right way, now.

 

[Andy99]

The Crosby and Malkin lines with more DZ starts would give up more goals against than would be made up for by the scoring 3rd line.

I don’t think so…Sid and to a lesser extent Geno have modified their games to play more defense…they need to continue to do so as they get older…that assumes we can find young players who can take some of the scoring load off of them…

 

[Pancakes]

The top six as currently constructed is arguably the worst top six in our division.

CBJ is probably worse on paper, but Fantilli and their young Russian kids are electric.

Well I didn't say it's good. I said it's "fine". Which I think with a functional PP and better bottom six it is.

Issue is I trust neither Dubas nor Sullivan to fix those issues.

And if Dubas tries to beef up the top six that's going to be too expensive for the Pens to do via trade since they don't want to give up any of their (few) good prospects and they won't have the cap room to do much via FA that way either.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well I didn't say it's good. I said it's "fine". Which I think with a functional PP and better bottom six it is.

Issue is I trust neither Dubas nor Sullivan to fix those issues.

And if Dubas tries to beef up the top six that's going to be too expensive for the Pens to do via trade since they don't want to give up any of their (few) good prospects and they won't have the cap room to do much via FA that way either.

I don't agree.

It's going to be too creative. If he gets creative he can take some swings to bringing in big term players that teams may look to get out of or players that may be asking out

Josh Norris, Jonathan Huberdeau, Nazem Kadri, Clayton Keller, Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, PLD, Boeser, Nik Ehlers, etc.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't agree.

It's going to be too creative. If he gets creative he can take some swings to bringing in big term players that teams may look to get out of or players that may be asking out

Josh Norris, Jonathan Huberdeau, Nazem Kadri, Clayton Keller, Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, PLD, Boeser, Nik Ehlers, etc.

I don't think this is a bad way to think about it but the problem with trying to do this is the Pens are already cap strapped. They have $12,745,658 projected cap space according to Capfriendly. But they have some rfas to sign that will presumably be taking up some of that cap for next year as roster players (Puustinen for example).

So their ability to take on bad contracts is going to be somewhat limited in that regard unless they're able to move some of their own (Smith for example).

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think this is a bad way to think about it but the problem with trying to do this is the Pens are already cap strapped. They have $12,745,658 projected cap space according to Capfriendly. But they have some rfas to sign that will presumably be taking up some of that cap for next year as roster players (Puustinen for example).

So their ability to take on bad contracts is going to be somewhat limited in that regard unless they're able to move some of their own (Smith for example).

I assume Smith would be going out in any deal where a team is dumping term on us.

Also, you have to hope Dubas is smart and gets out of the Jarry contract somehow this summer. That'd be such a huge, huge thing for this team.

 

[Rudy Russo]

But can we have six Kris Letangs?

I'll take three Jeff Carters

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don’t think so…Sid and to a lesser extent Geno have modified their games to play more defense…they need to continue to do so as they get older…that assumes we can find young players who can take some of the scoring load off of them…

I disagree. Sid and Geno have actually been worse defensively the last couple of years. Love them both, and Sid had a stretch where he was a menace for 200 feet, but there have been far more breakdowns of late.