Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Turin]

*jfresh chart*

Yea. One of many points of data that expose your player comparisons as lazy.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

You counting Smith or DOC? I think DOC is a better fit honestly. And Puustinen seems Guentzel-ish to me.

Sorry, I should have specified. I meant by salary. Rust, Rakell, Smith, and Bunting. In no particular order.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea. One of many points of data that expose your player comparisons as lazy.

*jfresh chart with commentary from jfresh*

Amazing player by charts. 2.4 million dollar value at 4.5 million. Amazing stuff. Great trade. Overpaid top nine forward, what this team has always needed.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

JFresh charts are garbage. There. I said it.

 

[Gurglesons]

JFresh charts are garbage. There. I said it.

Kinda like the Guentzel trade.

Zing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

JFresh charts are garbage. There. I said it.

They all are.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Advanced metrics charts are like trying to take fine art and explain it with a coloring book and a fistful of dull crayons.

Regardless Bunting isn't worth arguing over. Yet another in a long line of extremely uninspiring middle six players with term on his contract that this team so loves to collect.

 

[eXile3]

JFresh is great unless it disagrees with my opinion. Then it’s garbage.

 

[Gurglesons]

Advanced metrics charts are like trying to take fine art and explain it with a coloring book and a fistful of dull crayons.

Regardless Bunting isn't worth arguing over. Yet another in a long line of extremely uninspiring middle six players with term on his contract that this team so loves to collect.

Nah. He's everything this team needs because he scored two goals near the net.. Just like Reilly Smith was everything this team needs. Just like Rakell was everything this team needs. Etc. etc. etc.

 

[SEALBound]

I don't like any of this team's top-six wings. Maybe Rust. As individual players they're fine. But they're not good fits for what Crosby and Malkin need.

This team is really in the same boat the 2014/2015 Penguins were except their generational centers for 10 years older. Those rosters had nothing but complimentary players and zero impact bottom 6 players.

When they added Kessel, they added another impact player that could actually do something on his own and not rely solely on Sid/Geno, especially when it came to the playoffs. If they are serious about wanting to make the playoffs next year, they need to find an impact player - center or wing - and build out from there. If you added a prime Kessel to the roster instead of another Smith, we'd be a different spot. You need someone that can be a threat to produce if the PP isn't clicking or if Sid/Geno aren't singlehandedly winning a game.

It would make the most sense to trade Smith and Rakell and then try to bring in an impact forward. You can fill out from there. That could be Jake or that could be someone else through a trade or a FA signing if they are lucky enough.

Kinda like the Guentzel trade.

Zing.

Gurglesons adding value to the thread.

This new and fresh perspective and content are what people yearn for around here.

 

[eXile3]

Advanced metrics charts are like trying to take fine art and explain it with a coloring book and a fistful of dull crayons.

Regardless Bunting isn't worth arguing over. Yet another in a long line of extremely uninspiring middle six players with term on his contract that this team so loves to collect.

They’re like any other kind of analytic. They can help with your decision making process, especially since it is hard to see every single player, and every single game. Ultimately the game tape is the best way to review talent.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Nah. He's everything this team needs because he scored two goals near the net.. Just like Reilly Smith was everything this team needs. Just like Rakell was everything this team needs. Etc. etc. etc.

I don't know much but I know for sure I've stopped having any faith whatsoever on how this team assesses players and/or builds their rosters based on those assessments. I think... at this point especially... that's pretty fair. Hextall, Dubas... doesn't matter. It's been the same bag of shit for years, now. Wonder what the constant could be. What a mystery, as usual.

They’re like any other kind of analytic. They can help with your decision making process, especially since it is hard to see every single player, and every single game. Ultimately the game tape is the best way to review talent.

I'm not trying to shit in anyone's punchbowl. Maybe they have some use and they are an evolving process. But to me they are nothing better than a quick-glance reference tool that lacks much in the way of nuance or context. Sadly (speaking of the Penguins, here) you still have to watch the games to get the best read, like you said.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't know much but I know for sure I've stopped having any faith whatsoever on how this team assesses players and/or builds their rosters based on those assessments. I think... at this point especially... that's pretty fair. Hextall, Dubas... doesn't matter. It's been the same bag of shit for years, now. Wonder what the constant could be. What a mystery, as usual.

Hey at least we've got Erik Karlsson putting up his 2nd worst numbers in 5 years.

Cavaet his worst season came when he was recovering from a groin injury that haunted him for 2 years.

 

[molon labe]

What's the outlook on solid bottom 6 PKers this Summer? Trying to figure out who we will spend our money on.

Not looking for offensive upside - not that it would matter anyway. If they're a 10 goal scorer we only expect them to pot 2-4 anyway.

If we can just keep the same exact roster and trade players for the same mold, we're in business next year. The goal is to miss the playoffs - so don't get all fancy with me with trying to bring in anyone with any sort of upside.

Diety: Mike Sullivan

Workers:
DOC - Sid - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Smith
Grinder - Eller - Rakell
Acciari - Carter - Harkins

Definitely ripe to see some performance changes here. New look Penguins. Hell, maybe we get crazy and ship Smith out for another PKer. By my estimation that would put us at about 100-115 goals for next year. Good for dead last in the NHL. Perfect. Not that we didn't discuss this last Summer - clearly goals are not the priority. Sitting 15th in the penalty kill? That's more like it.

 

[Gurglesons]

They’re like any other kind of analytic. They can help with your decision making process, especially since it is hard to see every single player, and every single game. Ultimately the game tape is the best way to review talent.

The PDOCast is the best resource for this approach of talking analytics with a huge involvement of eye test.

What's the outlook on solid bottom 6 PKers this Summer? Trying to figure out who we will spend our money on.

Not looking for offensive upside - not that it would matter anyway. If they're a 10 goal scorer we only expect them to pot 2-4 anyway.

If we can just keep the same exact roster and trade players for the same mold, we're in business next year. The goal is to miss the playoffs - so don't get all fancy with me with trying to bring in anyone with any sort of upside.

Diety: Mike Sullivan

Workers:
DOC - Sid - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - Smith
Grinder - Eller - Rakell
Acciari - Carter - Harkins

Definitely ripe to see some performance changes here. New look Penguins. Hell, maybe we get crazy and ship Smith out for another PKer. By my estimation that would put us at about 100-115 goals for next year. Good for dead last in the NHL. Perfect. Not that we didn't discuss this last Summer - clearly goals are not the priority. Sitting 15th in the penalty kill? That's more like it.

It's funny because it is true.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Bunting is a damn solid complementary top-6 forward that brings an element that this team has lacked since Hornqvist left. Complaining about him is downright bizarre. I don't like it if Dubas sunk value on Guentzel to get him, but I'm very happy to have him because he's a really nice piece on a good contract. I have no concerns about running with Bunting-Crosby-Rust or Bunting-Crosby-Rakell going forward.

I also find it funny that there was a vocal portion of Penguins fans downplaying Guentzel before the trade and saying stuff like "Rakell could replace Guentzel if Rakell was given Guentzel's usage", but now the same people are saying the Guentzel trade was terrible and Bunting sucks.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bunting is a damn solid complementary top-6 forward that brings an element that this team has lacked since Hornqvist left. Complaining about him is downright bizarre. I don't like it if Dubas sunk value on Guentzel to get him, but I'm very happy to have him because he's a really nice piece on a good contract. I have no concerns about running with Bunting-Crosby-Rust or Bunting-Crosby-Rakell going forward.

I also find it funny that there was a vocal portion of Penguins fans downplaying Guentzel before the trade and saying stuff like "Rakell could replace Guentzel if Rakell was given Guentzel's usage", but now the same people are saying the Guentzel trade was terrible and Bunting sucks.

I'm not shocked by any of this.

I will also not be shocked around December of this year when you are advocating to move Bunting.

 

[vodeni]

Bunting is a damn solid complementary top-6 forward that brings an element that this team has lacked since Hornqvist left. Complaining about him is downright bizarre. I don't like it if Dubas sunk value on Guentzel to get him, but I'm very happy to have him because he's a really nice piece on a good contract. I have no concerns about running with Bunting-Crosby-Rust or Bunting-Crosby-Rakell going forward.

I also find it funny that there was a vocal portion of Penguins fans downplaying Guentzel before the trade and saying stuff like "Rakell could replace Guentzel if Rakell was given Guentzel's usage", but now the same people are saying the Guentzel trade was terrible and Bunting sucks.

I like Bunting, I think he brings thing that Smith,, Rakell or Rust don't and that thing is deeply missed, Howeber you must have not been watching games since he came, because he lasted only a couple of periods on Sid's line (what he was suppose to be according to Sully), and has been kicked off of that line. I don't thinlk Sid wants to play with him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I like Bunting, I think he brings thing that Smith,, Rakell or Rust don't and that thing is deeply missed, Howeber you must have not been watching games since he came, because he lasted only a couple of periods on Sid's line (what he was suppose to be according to Sully), and has been kicked off of that line. I don't thinlk Sid wants to play with him.

Sullivan makes stupid lineup decisions, I'm just talking about in a vacuum for a line I think would work.

I'd prefer to see Bunting-Crosby-Rakell and have Rust and Malkin as 2/3 of the 2nd line, but I think we all know they're not going to do that.

 

[MayorofWBS]

There isn't much to be excited about in terms of the Penguins. Team stinks, not a given they will fire a woefully over expired coaching staff and as things stand now will probably give their first round pick to SJ. The franchise has flatlined. I have zero interest in signing more sloppy vets in the offseason and rather just go with all young internal players to fill holes. No reason to collect even more blah vet contracts. The kids may suck too but it's time to find out.

 

[vodeni]

Sullivan makes stupid lineup decisions, I'm just talking about in a vacuum for a line I think would work.

I'd prefer to see Bunting-Crosby-Rakell and have Rust and Malkin as 2/3 of the 2nd line, but I think we all know they're not going to do that.

preaching to the choir...it looks way too logical to be implemented, but who knows, maybe we get a new coach or assistant coach with a voice...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Bunting is a damn solid complementary top-6 forward that brings an element that this team has lacked since Hornqvist left. Complaining about him is downright bizarre. I don't like it if Dubas sunk value on Guentzel to get him, but I'm very happy to have him because he's a really nice piece on a good contract. I have no concerns about running with Bunting-Crosby-Rust or Bunting-Crosby-Rakell going forward.

I also find it funny that there was a vocal portion of Penguins fans downplaying Guentzel before the trade and saying stuff like "Rakell could replace Guentzel if Rakell was given Guentzel's usage", but now the same people are saying the Guentzel trade was terrible and Bunting sucks.

Just say @Gurglesons because we all know who it is.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

This team is really in the same boat the 2014/2015 Penguins were except their generational centers for 10 years older. Those rosters had nothing but complimentary players and zero impact bottom 6 players.

When they added Kessel, they added another impact player that could actually do something on his own and not rely solely on Sid/Geno, especially when it came to the playoffs. If they are serious about wanting to make the playoffs next year, they need to find an impact player - center or wing - and build out from there. If you added a prime Kessel to the roster instead of another Smith, we'd be a different spot. You need someone that can be a threat to produce if the PP isn't clicking or if Sid/Geno aren't singlehandedly winning a game.

It would make the most sense to trade Smith and Rakell and then try to bring in an impact forward. You can fill out from there. That could be Jake or that could be someone else through a trade or a FA signing if they are lucky enough.

Absolutely agree with your first graph. We have a bunch of David Perrons right now. Good player, went on to do great things and have great years, but not a fit here.

Then you have to ask if those players aren't fits here because of who's behind the bench, but that's a whole different conversation...

I've said before that since Crosby and Malkin aren't 100pt players anymore, they can't drag around 50pt players. They each need a 70pt wing, and the third wheel on the line can be a 50pt wing.

We basically have four pretty similar 50pt, $5M top-six wings in Rakell, Rust, Bunting, and Smith in that they are all only top-six wings if they are the third wheel on their respective lines. I like Rust and Rakell best of the four, but Bunting is a Dubas toy and Rust is the best of them, so like you said, Rakell and Smith out. With Rust and Bunting as the third wheel on their lines, we'd need to bring in two 70pt top-six players.

That leaves:
xxxxx - Crosby - Rust
Bunting - Malkin - xxxxx
or
Bunting - xxxxx - Malkin

I'm warming to the idea of Malkin to the wing, with the caveat that he has to play the right side. He was already tried as Staal's LW, and it was bad. Watch him play, and he prefers the right side. So much as considering him for the left side is idiotic.

Guentzel obviously fits the bill here. Reinhart would be a dream. Lindholm could possibly fit, but he's not productive enough. We likely don't have the cap, even with Rakell and Smith out.

If they're serious about their claims to be contenders next year, this is exactly what has to happen. It won't, but it has to.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I see pixies' newest hyperfixation is Bunting.

 

[Gurglesons]

I see pixies' newest hyperfixation is Bunting.

No that’s actually what the hell Kyle Dubas is going to do this summer that somehow makes us a worse team while getting some of the people around here excited because those guys bring “good value”.