Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Andy99]

Latest Pens Buzz: Sullivan Coaching Chatter; Penguins gauged market for Marcus Pettersson to get ‘Value’ feeling before summer extension decision & More Buzz - Inside Pittsburgh Sports

PENGUINS DWINDLING PLAYOFF HOPES It was fun for a couple days while it lasted that just maybe the Penguins could put a string of games together and remain relevant in the playoff race for another week or so. Pittsburgh's slim playoff hopes, though, took a sizeable nosedive with the upcoming...

insidepittsburghsports.com

Interesting tidbits in here regarding Sullivan - does he WANT to be the head coach next year or does he fancy moving on to a larger role, whether with us or another team (NJ mentioned). I suggested this in the off-season that if you are bound by the contract but don't want him to be the head coach, promote him up to AGM or a VPOHO. Anything that gets him gone is good.

Does anyone have an account that can add more detail?


They should be doing a full analysis of "what do each of Sid and Malkin need?" and then seek out the best options available. I wouldn't beholden to Smith or Rakell but I think they will keep Rust around. He's still decent and still Sid's buddy so I can't see them moving him out.

You know you’re quoting TIOPS, right? Lol

 

[Pancakes]

I've accepted that Sullivan will be here as long as he wants to be.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Apropos of nothing, but the amount of Devils fans who are near fanatical at the thought they might find a way to poach Sully this summer to coach that team is pretty surprising. Good luck, and I hope they get their wish.

 

[Jacob]

Sullivan is a good coach that will have success elsewhere, but he’s still at the end of his rope here. Even Bowman was fired numerous times.

 

[ChaosAgent]

They should be doing a full analysis of "what do each of Sid and Malkin need?" and then seek out the best options available. I wouldn't beholden to Smith or Rakell but I think they will keep Rust around. He's still decent and still Sid's buddy so I can't see them moving him out.

They need someone better than them on their lines. Sid arguably had that but he's gone.

 

[T1K]

Pittsburgh wasn't a choice FA destination when Crosby and Malkin were in their primes.

Now that they're in the twilight of their careers, why would FAs prioritize Pittsburgh?

Whether taxes, climate, quality of the core, age of the core, quality of the pipeline, recent success, open roster spots, coaching staff, reputation, there are a lot of variables. Obviously individual players will make value decisions on the individual level. But in general, this team doesn't have a whole lot going for it to attract free agent talent.

The NHL didn’t have a salary cap before Crosby and Malkin. That’s a major factor. Pittsburgh is on par with Columbus who signed the big fish in Johnny Hockey (lol) via free agency a couple years back. If you are willing to pay, you can sign almost anyone regardless of the market.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

Is Malkin going to retire?

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Is Malkin going to retire?

At the end of his current contract, probably.

 

[DearDiary]

Apropos of nothing, but the amount of Devils fans who are near fanatical at the thought they might find a way to poach Sully this summer to coach that team is pretty surprising. Good luck, and I hope they get their wish.

His issue here is his system is stale and he's gotten complacent with trying to force it to work. The Devils would be a fresh start and I could see him finding success there.

 

[Freeptop]

This seems more like haggling over semantics rather than seeing the bigger point I was making. You're stuck on "40-50 point player" and ignoring the bigger point that at this stage of their careers, Sid and Geno need actual elite or at least higher end wingers, not just players who'll score in the 50 point range.

The point is while teams like Colorado, Edmonton, Toronto, Boston, Florida, and the like have the Rantanens, Draisaitls, Marners/Nylanders, Pastrnaks, and Reinharts/Tkachuks of the world, we're going into next season with Bryan friggin' Rust as our best winger. That shit needs to stop if this team actually wants to be a playoff team, because Crosby/Malkin can't carry the offense anymore to compensate for sub-par (compared to the good teams) wingers surrounding their centers.

Argue all you want about whether Smith, Rakell and Rust are 50-60 point wingers instead of 40-50 point wingers, the bottom line is they're vastly inferior to pretty much every good playoff team's top six wingers. And the days of Sid/Geno being able to compensate for that gap are gone.

I mean, I don't think the Pens are going to make it back to the playoffs next year, unless something miraculous occurs. I just thought it was odd that the timeframe when the Pens seemed to be trying to actually bring in higher quality wingers than they had in the past was a weird one to say that they were just expecting Sid and Geno to carry lesser players. That was definitely true under Shero, but it's been less true over time since him.

The real problem is that elite players just aren't really available that often, and when they are, you need both the cap space and the assets in order to acquire them - two things that the Pens generally don't have. And they generally aren't available in free agency, either.

The problem is that those kind of players just plain aren't available that often:
Rantanen: 10th overall pick by the Avs
Draisaitl: 3rd overall pick by the Oilers
Marner: 4th overall pick by the Leafs
Nylander: 8th overall pick by the Leafs
Pastrnak: 25th overall pick by the Bruins (this is the _one_ player the Pens had a chance to have drafted, and it's not like they're the only ones to have passed on him)
Reinhart: 2nd overall pick by the Sabres (traded in 2022, when Hextall was the GM, and that was the summer that he re-signed Malkin, Letang and Rust)
Tkachuk: 6th overall pick by the Flames (also traded in 2022)

Realistically for the Pens, the only way they're getting more elite players at this point is to be bad and get high draft picks, and then hope they develop properly, and not end up being the next Yakupov.

 

[Darren McCord]

Forsling just got 5.75. He’s their top defenseman and one of the best in the league.

Florida’s getting those Tampa discounts.

Forsling is comparable to Lindholm. Lindholm got 6.5 for 8 years from Boston. So sure Forsling got about a million dollar discount.

Even if Reinhart takes a million discount that sill puts him at like 8.5-9 million over 8 years. Thats way more than you said.

You had Reinhard signing a smaller contract than Forsling which is ridiculous.

 

[Andy99]

Is Malkin going to retire?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he did earlier than his contract ends…but he needs to do us a solid and LTIRetire from some injury so we can sell off his contract…

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think getting Geno's cap hit off the books is gonna matter when he retires a year early, if he does.

 

[BusinessGoose]

The NHL didn’t have a salary cap before Crosby and Malkin. That’s a major factor. Pittsburgh is on par with Columbus who signed the big fish in Johnny Hockey (lol) via free agency a couple years back. If you are willing to pay, you can sign almost anyone regardless of the market.

Johnny Gaudreau explains why he chose to sign with Columbus Blue Jackets

Johnny Hockey just wants to have fun.

ca.sports.yahoo.com

We don't have a cannon, we don't have a good crowd, and we don't have any players who are friends with any 90pt FA wingers

So yeah, I'm sure we could just get anyone like gaudreau with bags of cash

(plus, look how bad he's been... Throwing stacks of cash in FA ain't no guarantee dude doesn't fall off a cliff... Considering few players brought into PIT lately haven't fallen off a cliff, i don't want them buying into $10mil players anyway)

 

[BusinessGoose]

I don't think getting Geno's cap hit off the books is gonna matter when he retires a year early, if he does.

Yeah, what's the deal with like contracts signed post 35 or whatever? Team is stuck with the hit?

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he did earlier than his contract ends…but he needs to do us a solid and LTIRetire from some injury so we can sell off his contract…

Why would Malkin retire lol?

 

[molon labe]

Geno is a 30 goal scorer with a half-decent PP - even now.

He's just not a 2C who can carry the likes of Harkins in a competitive role. He's depressed because the team sucks and Sullivan is Sid's boy.

Dude needs to shift to wing.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, what's the deal with like contracts signed post 35 or whatever? Team is stuck with the hit?

I just meant more to the effect of "If Geno retires early, it'll be because this team sucks shit and cap hits won't matter" tbh.

Only reason cap hit matters to a team in the Pens' position moving forward is if they plan on weaponizing their cap space to take on bad contracts for assets. But with the cap jumping probably $5 million a year for a couple years, I'm not sure that's gonna be a means of attack for bad teams anymore.

 

[Pancakes]

I just meant more to the effect of "If Geno retires early, it'll be because this team sucks shit and cap hits won't matter" tbh.

Only reason cap hit matters to a team in the Pens' position moving forward is if they plan on weaponizing their cap space to take on bad contracts for assets. But with the cap jumping probably $5 million a year for a couple years, I'm not sure that's gonna be a means of attack for bad teams anymore.

Malkin won't retire early even if this team sucks shit. At worst he'd just suddenly be allergic to his equipment like Hossa or whoever and just go on ltir until his contract is up.

He ain't turnin down those millions

 

[molon labe]

Rakell and Smith are both performing like a playoff teams' 3rd line. Tough to have 10M tied up in those two.

Eller is likely to finish with more goals than either. At this rate, Carter might as well.

I mean, yeah, I'll never change my mind that Sully needs to go, yesterday - but Rakell and Smith have had plenty of time to figure it out. Smith just looks awful all the time and Rakell at least wins a board battle here or there.

 

[HandshakeLine]

regular 20-30 goal scorer while still being defensively responsible?

Rust isn't really defensively responsible though. That's really the crux of the problem with Rust is that people assume he's a very different player than he actually is (and has been for some time) on the ice today.

He's not the biggest offender in the top 6 by far, but he's not really this feisty, scrappy, clutch, defensively solid winger that people think he is. I would have traded him at the TDL because I think he's got more value around the league than here but it's clear coaching and FO staff think he's part of the core, which is just baffling to me.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nobody of Jake's caliber in organization or on the horizon via trade/FA. Rust is injury prone and it's a coin toss whether he's a 60pt guy or a 40pt guy. Smith and Rakell kinda suck. DOC, Zoho, Poulin, Puustinen are all pretty meh above 3rd line roles, I think.

Unless Dubas surprises to an insane degree this off-season, *and* fires the coaching staff, this team's gonna be as bad or even worse next season imo.

 

[Ulf5]

I think if Reinhart goes to UFA he is easily getting 9-10 mil.

My point is if he re-signs in Florida. I guarantee he’ll take a huge discount.

I dont doubt doubt a discount in the least.
Going from Buffalo to Fla alone is worth at least a million lol.
But at 28, he's probably looking at close to 8 years to re-sign with the Cats. $2 million per year dicount is a lot of coin.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I like Pittsburgh but if I was looking at 8M to play for the Panthers you’d need to pay me 11-12M to play for the Pens. Even then it’s tough.

 

[Wattsburgh]

Serious question; does a losing record get Sullivan fired?

Like winning one game in April fired at least?