Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Zbynek]

It’s a f***up that he’s been WB/S’s best forward and hasn’t gotten a single call up. Suggests he’s not in the plans, but probably also doesn’t have much trade value.

Earlier in the year the excuse could’ve been that he missed a lot of time so they just wanted him to get some games in in all situations, but no excuse to leave him down still. He can play any forward position and they use him to PK so that’s not an excuse either. Not like he’s one-dimensional.

How does Sully still not give these guys a shot even after the Jake trade?

Sullivan is friggin cozy man

 

[Jacob]

How does Sully still not give these guys a shot even after the Jake trade?

Sullivan is friggin cozy man

Or those long stretches where we were desperate for depth scoring but Harkins wasn’t even sniffing the net.

 

[SEALBound]

I'm not sure what the headspace is for Poulin right now. He took a significant sabbatical last year to deal with his mental health. Who knows what that actually is, but I would suggest that if the mental side is affecting you that much at the AHL level, it will affect you ten-fold at the NHL level. So, giving him another full season to marinate in the AHL, I'm not that upset. When it was necessary to bring him up a couple of weeks ago, he was injured, so I'm not going to go over the cliff saying there's an anti-Poulin conspiracy.

Poulin should be penciled into the lineup next year, though. There will have to come a point where if we want to get younger...they need to get younger. If there is no performance difference, they need to defer to a guy like Poulin or Gruden over guys like Harkins and Nieto. Nieto should 100% be a trade for future considerations candidate this off-season. With who we have available, zero reason for guys like Nieto or Harkins to be in the lineup.

I think the most interesting aspect for July 1st will be Jake. I would still take Jake back, and I would encourage it if we want to go youth-heavy next year.

Jake-Sid-Bunting
DOC-Malkin-Rust
Rakell-Pono-Puustinen
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

I do support trading Acciari though as a means to open up another spot. Another thing is that Sullivan MUST abandon the idea that "the third and fourth line can only be defensive lines". 4th line to lean on, fine - Poulin-Eller-Acciari accomplished that well IMO.

 

[Nakawick]

Never mind

 

[Fordy]

I'm not sure what the headspace is for Poulin right now. He took a significant sabbatical last year to deal with his mental health. Who knows what that actually is, but I would suggest that if the mental side is affecting you that much at the AHL level, it will affect you ten-fold at the NHL level. So, giving him another full season to marinate in the AHL, I'm not that upset. When it was necessary to bring him up a couple of weeks ago, he was injured, so I'm not going to go over the cliff saying there's an anti-Poulin conspiracy.

Poulin should be penciled into the lineup next year, though. There will have to come a point where if we want to get younger...they need to get younger. If there is no performance difference, they need to defer to a guy like Poulin or Gruden over guys like Harkins and Nieto. Nieto should 100% be a trade for future considerations candidate this off-season. With who we have available, zero reason for guys like Nieto or Harkins to be in the lineup.

I think the most interesting aspect for July 1st will be Jake. I would still take Jake back, and I would encourage it if we want to go youth-heavy next year.

Jake-Sid-Bunting
DOC-Malkin-Rust
Rakell-Pono-Puustinen
Poulin-Eller-Acciari

I do support trading Acciari though as a means to open up another spot. Another thing is that Sullivan MUST abandon the idea that "the third and fourth line can only be defensive lines". 4th line to lean on, fine - Poulin-Eller-Acciari accomplished that well IMO.

pretty sure sullivan consider harkins an infusion if youth

 

[TheGoldenJet]

pretty sure sullivan consider harkins an infusion if youth

He’s an infusion of something alright.

 

[Gurglesons]

Jfresh chart time.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Jfresh chart time.

100% Powerplay WAR. LO freaking L

 

[SEALBound]

100% Powerplay WAR. LO freaking L

WIth how WAR is calculated, it makes sense. Just don't go looking at "finishing".

I wonder if you could show this to another team as a selling point to make a trade for EK?

 

[ChaosAgent]

WIth how WAR is calculated, it makes sense. Just don't go looking at "finishing".

I wonder if you could show this to another team as a selling point to make a trade for EK?

Literally we are making fun of xG but then we take another metric that is entirely underpinned by xG.

 

[Jobeycool]

It is a toss up to me if maybe 3 - 4 of these guys should be traded in the off season Karlsson, Rust, Malkin, Letang, Pettersson, Eller, Rakell, Graves,. Carter needs to go somehow anyways..... also Nedelijkovic.

 

[SEALBound]

Literally we are making fun of xG but then we take another metric that is entirely underpinned by xG.

One thing I hate is the "expected goals" stuff because it points to it being an issue with player performance and not the fact that we are a team that is completely out of sorts due to coaching

It is a toss up to me if maybe 3 - 4 of these guys should be traded in the off season Karlsson, Rust, Malkin, Letang, Pettersson, Eller, Rakell, Graves,. Carter needs to go somehow anyways..... also Nedelijkovic.

What's wrong with Nedelijkovic?

 

[Jobeycool]

One thing I hate is the "expected goals" stuff because it points to it being an issue with player performance and not the fact that we are a team that is completely out of sorts due to coaching


What's wrong with Nedelijkovic?

He had a pretty good season.... all the more reason to trade him.. Time to we start the painful rebuild...

 

[ChaosAgent]

One thing I hate is the "expected goals" stuff because it points to it being an issue with player performance and not the fact that we are a team that is completely out of sorts due to coaching

It is definitely both.

But come on. EK does stupid stuff on the PP and has made zone entries worse, if that were even possible.
If a metric tells you any member of the Penguins is the best PP player in the league (which, uh, 100th percentile says) that metric is wrong. This is getting into ZAR range of discrediting analytics.

 

[SomeDude]

WIth how WAR is calculated, it makes sense. Just don't go looking at "finishing".

I wonder if you could show this to another team as a selling point to make a trade for EK?

I think the only team that is brain dead enough to think a roster should be built with JFresh charts already has Karlsson.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Would love to see what Powerplay WAR% the other members of our 29th ranked Powerplay and 31st ranked Powerplay net of SHG against.
I'm sure the math is going to add up great.

 

[Sike Mullivan]

I think the only team that is brain dead enough to think a roster should be built with JFresh charts already has Karlsson.

Didnt that boy genius guy from the Coyotes try this in like 2017?

 

[SomeDude]

Didnt that boy genius guy from the Coyotes try this in like 2017?

Not sure but the nerd genius from the Penguins is currently trying this.

 

[Jacob]

Everyone playing well on this team according to the advanced stats (Crosby, Karlsson) is also heavily responsible for the thing that's killed us all season (the PP).

 

[SEALBound]

It is definitely both.

But come on. EK does stupid stuff on the PP and has made zone entries worse, if that were even possible.
If a metric tells you any member of the Penguins is the best PP player in the league (which, uh, 100th percentile says) that metric is wrong. This is getting into ZAR range of discrediting analytics.

ZAR had great defensive metrics but that was actually backed up by his play. Just because he was an offensive black hole doesn't mean he didn't do his part on the defensive side of the puck. Now when establishing value, it just comes down to how a team/GM values that play.

But I mean, we agree on EK and PP though from the eye test perspective. All I was saying is that given how WAR% is calculated, it should yield good results for Karlsson. I'm about 99.99% sure those WAR%'s are a three-year average so EK is still getting a boost from his epic year last year.

Not sure but the nerd genius from the Penguins is currently trying this.

How would be looking with Granlund, Petry, Rutta, and CDS?

 

[ChaosAgent]

But I mean, we agree on EK and PP though from the eye test perspective. All I was saying is that given how WAR% is calculated, it should yield good results for Karlsson. I'm about 99.99% sure those WAR%'s are a three-year average so EK is still getting a boost from his epic year last year.

I thought this was purely about the current year.

Either way, it looks stupid and incorrect.

 

[SomeDude]

How would be looking with Granlund, Petry, Rutta, and CDS?

Bad, just like we are now. Except not down a 1st and dead cap space.

 

[SEALBound]

I thought this was purely about the current year.

Either way, it looks stupid and incorrect.

Now that I look, it is. Says it at the bottom.

 

[ChaosAgent]

How would be looking with Granlund, Petry, Rutta, and CDS?

I'm just terrified that we're going to give up a top-3 pick in 2025 due to this.

Otherwise, worthwhile gamble by the Dooobz. Even if Karlsson's PP issues made it unsuccessful.

 

[SEALBound]

Bad, just like we are now. Except not down a 1st and dead cap space.

Keeping those guys likely means we don't sign Eller or Graves.

Pros and Cons I guess.

I'm just terrified that we're going to give up a top-3 pick in 2025 due to this.

Otherwise, worthwhile gamble by the Dooobz. Even if Karlsson's PP issues made it unsuccessful.

Honestly, I'm not. Looking at the bottom-feeder teams, we still have a better roster than 10 teams.

I think they bet on the team next year and make a few changes in the off-season. My worry only comes if there are major injuries and they insist on ridding Sullivan into the dirt.

This team to start the year under a different coach (and assistant coaches) is either a playoff team or closer to a playoff team.