Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[Josey Wales]

Trade Targets: Let the bidding begin for Vancouver Canucks' Bo Horvat - Daily Faceoff don't know if this fits here or not !

 

[HandshakeLine]

What would we have that JR would reasonably be interested in for Horvat? I don't think the old bat's gonna bite on a Kapanen-Dumoulin for Horvat proposal.

 

[LOGiK]

They shouldn't have done it in any case. This team is not a team that can afford to have multiple recovery projects on the roster, and certainly not fixer-uppers that cost over $2 million.

This was always one of the most logical outcomes to the team refusing to look internally for cheap solutions in the bottom 6, I'm not sure why people are surprised that it's an issue.

It is cheaper but it's not being cheap... they should recruit and build and plant and grow and foster the youth players so they can play in the NHL... at ... whatever age they hit off...
Can't do it for everyone obviously, but a decent percentage of players should be draft or signed or watever... trading to build a team is NEVER a viable long term solution.

 

[Zbynek]

It’s downright bizarre to me that people are still insisting Kapanen isn’t terrible. I don’t know what happened with him, but he fell off a cliff about a year ago and looks like a shell of his former self. People stat watch to say he shouldn’t be healthy scratched based on “he has a few points”, but he’s been invisible at best for a huge majority of games in the last calendar year.

I was fine with the gamble with signing him to a 2 year deal last off-season, but it’s painfully obvious that it’s a bust already and they need to move on. If Kapanen returns to form after being traded, good for him. But as of right now, he’s not one of the Penguins 12 best forwards and he’s actively hurting them due to his cap hit.

The thing is, he's always had warts (lack of vision, patience, ability to read plays or play to the pace of his linemates)- we've known that since his rookie year. Not only has he done nothing to improve in those areas - as you said he's actually regressed! At least in his first few seasons in Toronto he was scoring goals. He hasn't done that for us, ever.

The best thing you can say about his career in Pittsburgh is he once played at a 20 goal pace for a half-season. If that's the ceiling for this guy, that's really, really bad. In this market we can find guys like that for 1 million no problem (Take Heinen for example, who took no offense to us not qualifying him).

I don't wanna hear this "but Kap can PK!" Yea, so can 10 other guys on our roster, this has never been an issue for us or for our system.

When Kap was traded back to us, Toronto fans warned us that even after a few years in the league nothing had changed about his warts that people knew about since he was a prospect. Now, in his 8th NHL season, it is f***ing mind-blowing that people on here still believe in him.

Guys, I know we haven't drafted a lot of forwards in the 1st round over the past decade, but let it go man.

I love to rag on Sully just as much as anyone else here - go check my reaction in the Sullivan extension thread when it happened if you want. But him scratching Kap is one of the best things going for us this season. Fine with taking that 3 million cap penalty until we find the guy a new home.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The problem isn't that it's a 3.2 million penalty. It's a 5.1 million penalty because we are paying 1.9 million this year for JJ's buyout.

 

[Zbynek]

The problem isn't that it's a 3.2 million penalty. It's a 5.1 million penalty because we are paying 1.9 million this year for JJ's buyout.

JR's worst signing, meet Hextall's worst signing.

 

[SEALBound]

The screw up was qualifying Kapanen IMO, I think that decision directly resulted in them being screwed with the cap.

I don’t think they would have re-signed Kapanen had they known Heinen was coming back, but they couldn’t retract the qualifying offer at that point.

Couldn't agree more. It was an incredibly low risk move to not give him the QO with the number of other unqualified RFAs. You could have not QO'd him and then offered him a $2mil x 1yr.

Or, as I said countless number of times, swap with Chicago for Kubalik. Or sign him.

JR's worst signing, meet Hextall's worst signing.

Honestly, if that's the worst we have to worry about, we are in good shape.

 

[pistolpete11]

I'm not a fan of players like Kap. I wouldn't have given up what JR did to get him in the first place and I wouldn't have qualified him this year.

Not liking Kap as a player and recognizing that Sullivan hasn't got the best out of him aren't mutually exclusive, though. A 40-ish point 3rd liner who can PK for $3.2M is not bad value. But he's regressed from the player he was in Toronto and his first year here for 2 years in a row now. I think a lot of that can be attributed to Sullivan.

Certainly Kap needs to take some responsibility for his play as well, but this is not an isolated incident where Sullivan has tried to square-peg-round-hole something. GCRu, Carter, E-Rod, McCann, JMFJ-Schultz...the list goes on and on.

Under a different coach, whether on this team or another, I think there is a role for Kapanen on an NHL team. It's just not going to be with Sullivan behind the bench. Typically, I'm against trading players away because the coach is misusing them. I think when that becomes the calculus a few too many times, you need to move the coach out first. In this case, though, Sullivan isn't going anywhere and Kap's not good enough to really fret over, so I think it's best to just move on however they can.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

JR's worst signing, meet Hextall's worst signing.

f***ing JR had to go trade back for him, such a dumb move considering we had the 15th pick that year!!!

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not a fan of players like Kap. I wouldn't have given up what JR did to get him in the first place and I wouldn't have qualified him this year.

Not liking Kap as a player and recognizing that Sullivan hasn't got the best out of him aren't mutually exclusive, though. A 40-ish point 3rd liner who can PK for $3.2M is not bad value. But he's regressed from the player he was in Toronto and his first year here for 2 years in a row now. I think a lot of that can be attributed to Sullivan.

Certainly Kap needs to take some responsibility for his play as well, but this is not an isolated incident where Sullivan has tried to square-peg-round-hole something. GCRu, Carter, E-Rod, McCann, JMFJ-Schultz...the list goes on and on.

Under a different coach, whether on this team or another, I think there is a role for Kapanen on an NHL team. It's just not going to be with Sullivan behind the bench. Typically, I'm against trading players away because the coach is misusing them. I think when that becomes the calculus a few too many times, you need to move the coach out first. In this case, though, Sullivan isn't going anywhere and Kap's not good enough to really fret over, so I think it's best to just move on however they can.

Yep. Seems obvious.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Wankers gonna wank tears when Kapanen scores 50 points the rest of the way.

There, my bold prediction means it happened wankers!

 

[Pens x]

f***ing JR had to go trade back for him, such a dumb move considering we had the 15th pick that year!!!

It’s not like JR would have drafted a good player or Sully would have given said player a chance.

 

[The Old Master]

What would we have that JR would reasonably be interested in for Horvat? I don't think the old bat's gonna bite on a Kapanen-Dumoulin for Horvat proposal.

it's jr. as long as we are willing to listen, jr will be willing to trade.

 

[Zbynek]

I'm not a fan of players like Kap. I wouldn't have given up what JR did to get him in the first place and I wouldn't have qualified him this year.

Not liking Kap as a player and recognizing that Sullivan hasn't got the best out of him aren't mutually exclusive, though. A 40-ish point 3rd liner who can PK for $3.2M is not bad value. But he's regressed from the player he was in Toronto and his first year here for 2 years in a row now. I think a lot of that can be attributed to Sullivan.

Certainly Kap needs to take some responsibility for his play as well, but this is not an isolated incident where Sullivan has tried to square-peg-round-hole something. GCRu, Carter, E-Rod, McCann, JMFJ-Schultz...the list goes on and on.

Under a different coach, whether on this team or another, I think there is a role for Kapanen on an NHL team. It's just not going to be with Sullivan behind the bench. Typically, I'm against trading players away because the coach is misusing them. I think when that becomes the calculus a few too many times, you need to move the coach out first. In this case, though, Sullivan isn't going anywhere and Kap's not good enough to really fret over, so I think it's best to just move on however they can.

They both are bad. It's moot now though that he's not in our top 12 best forwards and he costs 3.2 million dollars.

When Kap goes to another team I won't be sour about it by any means. I'll be happy for him if he proves me wrong and succeeds. I will be happy in pretty much any scenario that involves Kapanen leaving the Penguins.

 

[ChaosAgent]

They both are bad. It's moot now though that he's not in our top 12 best forwards and he costs 3.2 million dollars.

When Kap goes to another team I won't be sour about it by any means. I'll be happy for him if he proves me wrong and succeeds. I will be happy in any scenario involving Kapanen leaving the Penguins.

Even Kapanen "proving you wrong" would just be him being a functional NHL player.

Bottom line is at some point you don't have any upside. There's a ton of fringe NHL skill players out there and they don't cost $3M. The bloom has fallen off the rose with this player, and his best contribution to this team are the GetGo commercials.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Making statements like this won't magically make Kapanen's trade value anything but negative.

Dude scored like 10 goals in his past 100 games, majority of those games were played with Malkin, in our top-6 or on our PP unit.

Skating really fast and hard does not make you worth 3.2 million dollars on a multi year contract. Kapanen will never learn basic hockey IQ - regardless of coach - maybe that's what bothers you?

It is so bizarre that people can still defend this guy and the only reason I can think of is to improve his HFBoards trade value.

Feel free to bookmark when he goes to Winnipeg or Arizona or whatever and still fails to top 15 goals.

I don't care for his hf value. Wrong tree mate. I just know he's capable of better and that this coach misused him and then didn't know how to fix it so he's now got the salary cap issue as his excuse.

Danton Heinen f***ing reeks and yet this board is all ok with that because his cap hit is 1m and 1yr. Because of the cap, we can't see Hallander or Puustinen up, but then again we'd see both misused anyway. Kapanen was done dirty and if you lot don't want to see it, fine. Don't conjure up excuses for why I defend him though mate. You know I give zero f***s about what a trade board on a message board thinks about value.

My opinions on that are worth Halak, Ryder, and a 2nd.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Even Kapanen "proving you wrong" would just be him being a functional NHL player.

Bottom line is at some point you don't have any upside. There's a ton of fringe NHL skill players out there and they don't cost $3M. The bloom has fallen off the rose with this player, and his best contribution to this team are the GetGo commercials.

Danton Heinen was less of a talent in Boston than Kapanen was in Toronto, he then stunk out the joint in Anaheim and has been largely streaky last season to useless this season and yet blokes hold out hope.

Kapanen somehow isn't worthy of such optimism because babies here might shit their diapers at the notion another player might succeed away from the Pens like Marino.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The screw up was qualifying Kapanen IMO, I think that decision directly resulted in them being screwed with the cap.

I don’t think they would have re-signed Kapanen had they known Heinen was coming back, but they couldn’t retract the qualifying offer at that point.

Since Garbage Heinen only signed 1m, we are lucky it was just Kapanen qualified that made it that way. Had the Pens signed Heinen to a multi year deal we'd be stuck with a shittier player to deal while Kapanen might be sour grapes for a bunch of babies here, even if they move him for very little, he's movable as teams know he's a decent player that wasn't a good fit on the Pens.

There's one upside in that Heinen got 1yr at 1m. He f***ing sucks and should be dumped at the TDL regardless of what they do with Kapanen. McGinn was always more deserving of the third line duties and is finally getting utilized properly.

 

[pistolpete11]

They both are bad. It's moot now though that he's not in our top 12 best forwards and he costs 3.2 million dollars.

When Kap goes to another team I won't be sour about it by any means. I'll be happy for him if he proves me wrong and succeeds. I will be happy in pretty much any scenario that involves Kapanen leaving the Penguins.

Meh, he might not be one of their top 12 forwards because Sullivan has predetermined the type of player each spot in the lineup should be and Kapanen doesn't fit his spot, but I think the chances of Kap being a better player than Archibald, Poehling, Heinen, maybe even McGinn are pretty good.

 

[Andy99]

I think we need a poll: would you rather see 1) Kappy go to another team or 2) Mike Sullivan go to another team? Lol

 

[ChaosAgent]

I think we need a poll: would you rather see 1) Kappy go to another team or 2) Mike Sullivan go to another team? Lol

The coaching staff, easily.

Kapanen doesn't matter. He's irrelevant aside from being a waste of cap.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, Kapanen's a symptom not the disease.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

What would we have that JR would reasonably be interested in for Horvat? I don't think the old bat's gonna bite on a Kapanen-Dumoulin for Horvat proposal.

Horvat's a stretch, but Garland would be large.

 

[Pens x]

I guess the other 31 teams saw that Heinen sucks. He came back for less money might have been total BS.

At least it was only for one year, $1 million. But I’d try someone from Wilkes Barre over him right now rather easily. But the coach and front office hate young players, so that’ll never happen.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If this team is going to make a move I'd rather save their bullets for larger targets than Garland. Not that he's a bad player. But I'm getting a little tired of gunning for depth and tweeners instead of difference makers. If that just isn't a reality then make small tweaks or sell at the TDL and focus on the offseason to do so.