Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[HandshakeLine]

The defense really depends on Letang and Petry playing well, but the performance Pettersson and POJ have given so far this year makes me comfortable enough with these D pairs going forward:

Pettersson-Letang
POJ-Petry
Smith-Rutta

It's just a question of whether Letang and Petry are playing well. If those guys are playing well, I think that defense is good. If they're not, the defense is in shambles.

I think even if they're not cutout for it long term, it's not going to hurt to try it now. Worst case scenario, we play just as bad as we do now. Best case scenario, maybe we find out that these two can get promoted or raise their trade value.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dumo has been so bad that Petts-POJ-Smith on the left side would be an improvement, but that doesn't mean it is good enough. They need to send Dumo out AND bring in someone else IMO. Not necessarily Chychrun, but someone.

 

[Darren McCord]

I think the risk is having POJ's confidence get shot, then go back to struggling at the NHL level like he has in the past. You undo whatever positive progress you've made with him as a player at this level, or in increasing his value as an asset through a solid first 10 games of the season.

I don't know that any year is bad for a disaster, tbh. This shitshow's not gonna pull a 180 and suddenly be a blip in the rear view, it's only downhill from here as the Sids, Genos, Carts, Letangs and Petrys age out.

-edit- As the great Carl once said; "It don't matter, none o' this matters." That pretty much goes for everything about this team, from where to play POJ, to coaching, to goaltending. It's all whatev' at this point. Just enjoy the increasingly infrequent nights where Sid and Geno show some magic and chill.

I think POJ getting more time would be a boost to his confidence. the issues is that if he struggles some and Sullivan benches him.

if dumo can be a - 3 with not consequences. they need to let POJ be a - 1 without any. I am just not sure I trust sullivan to do that.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

You aren't wrong but like... it would almost be worth it simply for him to NOT be an option. This team cannot help itself. StK is right. They'll just keep trotting him out there even if he looks like he's skating with fifty pounds of mashed potatoes in his Cooperalls.

between the mashed potatoes and the rancid ground beef in the post-game thread, I have zero desire to have lunch now. Good thing, I need to drop some lbs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

between the mashed potatoes and the rancid ground beef in the post-game thread, I have zero desire to have lunch now. Good thing, I need to drop some lbs.

Oh damn... sorry!

I can really uh... paint a picture sometimes.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think POJ getting more time would be a boost to his confidence. the issues is that if he struggles some and Sullivan benches him.

if dumo can be a - 3 with not consequences. they need to let POJ be a - 1 without any. I am just not sure I trust sullivan to do that.

I don't agree that playing a greenhorn alongside two badly struggling vets would do good things for his confidence. Especially if the pairings continue to struggle.

I'm in favor of it. Dumo's been a shitshow for years. I just don't think it's the panacea people think it'll be, for the overall performance or POJ himself.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I agree that Petts' performance warrants him moving up to see if he can handle 1st pair/more difficult matchups.

Petts- Letang
POJ-Petry
Dumo- Rutta

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'm in favor of it. Dumo's been a shitshow for years. I just don't think it's the panacea people think it'll be, for the overall performance or POJ himself.

I don't think it's a panacea, but hell, if we're going to pay Petterson Dumoulin money, might as well see if he can handle Dumoulin minutes.

POJ moving up is just more about seeing if he has any upside.

That said, the 3rd pairing shouldn't be getting 12 minutes a night.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Well trying nothing will CERTAINLY work. We know that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think it's a panacea, but hell, if we're going to pay Petterson Dumoulin money, might as well see if he can handle Dumoulin minutes.

POJ moving up is just more about seeing if he has any upside.

That said, the 3rd pairing shouldn't be getting 12 minutes a night.

I think that's the thing. I don't know that guys need to be promoted, but TOI needs to be heavily overhauled in how Sully distributes it. Letang, Petry and Dumo could stand to see a lot fewer minutes. POJ-Rutta deserves a good bit more.

-edit- Swap Pett and Dumo though. Definitely step one.

 

[StaalForOne]

I agree that Petts' performance warrants him moving up to see if he can handle 1st pair/more difficult matchups.

Petts- Letang
POJ-Petry
Dumo- Rutta

I think you would want to swap POJ and Dumo, otherwise that bottom pairing is gonna get caved. Dumo and Rutta are our two worst puck movers.

100% on board with moving Dumo down the lineup, he has not played to a #2 standard in some time. He's worth trying out as a 3/4 guy before taking other measures.

 

[SEALBound]

I think a bigger issue may be that Sullivan and Co do NOT believe that Dumoulin is an issue. Based total and situational ice time, I think they think he is still the #2 dman from yesteryear.

It's not this team's MO to move a guy like Dumoulin.

I, however, would love to see a series of moves that would send Dumoulin, Kapanen, and possibly Bleuger out for #4 and a middle 6 wing.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I think a bigger issue may be that Sullivan and Co do NOT believe that Dumoulin is an issue. Based total and situational ice time, I think they think he is still the #2 dman from yesteryear.

It's not this team's MO to move a guy like Dumoulin.

I, however, would love to see a series of moves that would send Dumoulin, Kapanen, and possibly Bleuger out for #4 and a middle 6 wing.

I think that's exactly the issue. At least based on Sullivan's usage of him, I don't think the club sees the decline for whatever reason.

Then again this is the same coach who is using Jeff Carter like he's Patrice Bergeron.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, Sully plays all of Sid, Geno, Carter, Letang and Dumo like they're 27 year olds in the prime of their careers.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean, Sully plays all of Sid, Geno, Carter, Letang and Dumo like they're 27 year olds in the prime of their careers.

In fairness to Sully, wouldn't you with our bottom six?

Kinda damned if you do damned if you dont...

I think a bigger issue may be that Sullivan and Co do NOT believe that Dumoulin is an issue. Based total and situational ice time, I think they think he is still the #2 dman from yesteryear.

It's not this team's MO to move a guy like Dumoulin.

I, however, would love to see a series of moves that would send Dumoulin, Kapanen, and possibly Bleuger out for #4 and a middle 6 wing.

Either they don't think he's an issue or they just don't trust anyone else to handle those minutes.

He's been so bad though that how could POJ possibly be worse. Or anyone that they'd put there.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think that's exactly the issue. At least based on Sullivan's usage of him, I don't think the club sees the decline for whatever reason.

Then again this is the same coach who is using Jeff Carter like he's Patrice Bergeron.

*Ryan Poehling.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

In fairness to Sully, wouldn't you with our bottom six?

Kinda damned if you do damned if you dont...


Either they don't think he's an issue or they just don't trust anyone else to handle those minutes.

He's been so bad though that how could POJ possibly be worse. Or anyone that they'd put there.

No, I wouldn't. Because a gassed and beat to shit core of 35-38 year olds does you zero good once you make it to the playoffs.

Dumo's been a shitshow for a lot longer than the first 10 games of this season, imo. Letang's an athletic freak but the more he's out there, the higher chance for classic Letang gaffes or injury. Same goes for Sid and Geno.

It *is* kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, but if you can't reduce the TOI/responsibility of some dudes in the twilight of their career, then what good is your depth anyway?

 

[SEALBound]

Either they don't think he's an issue or they just don't trust anyone else to handle those minutes.

He's been so bad though that how could POJ possibly be worse. Or anyone that they'd put there.

Which is just as big of a problem as any. I hate to suggest that injuries may have to force his hand but it may come to that.

Just hope it isn't "well we will just insert Chad Rudwedel. He's trustworthy despite being the clear #7 this year. Give him the top 4 minutes".

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'd say the Penguins should steal the Wings' gameplan circa 2008 when they were all 35+ but still dominating the league but I don't know how well it'd work in today's way faster, younger NHL. You gotta be able to catch a guy to obstruct him.

We're also missing a Nick Lidstrom.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I posted this in the GDT, but I wanted to bring it in here. I'm pretty much fully over Kapanen at this point and think they need to make changes to the 3rd line. This is definitely partially due to his play, but I also just don't really like the makeup of the 3rd line. I think there needs to be more of a defensive focus there and Heinen-Carter-Kapanen just doesn't have that.

I'd be really happy to see them move on from Kapanen and bring in a physical defensive RWer for that line. I don't know who exactly would fit that now, but a great example that jumps to mind is Jannik Hansen from about a decade ago. A speedy defensive winger who throws a bunch of hits and can give you a solid 30-40 points a year would be a great addition to the 3rd line.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

-edit- Wrong thread

 

[dogthateats]

Oh Kapanen is playing?

 

[Sike Mullivan]

I posted this in the GDT, but I wanted to bring it in here. I'm pretty much fully over Kapanen at this point and think they need to make changes to the 3rd line. This is definitely partially due to his play, but I also just don't really like the makeup of the 3rd line. I think there needs to be more of a defensive focus there and Heinen-Carter-Kapanen just doesn't have that.

I'd be really happy to see them move on from Kapanen and bring in a physical defensive RWer for that line. I don't know who exactly would fit that now, but a great example that jumps to mind is Jannik Hansen from about a decade ago. A speedy defensive winger who throws a bunch of hits and can give you a solid 30-40 points a year would be a great addition to the 3rd line.

You mean like a Brandon Tanev type?

 

[Turin]

You mean like a Brandon Tanev type?

f*** I would take ZAR over him. Being an ineffective goof who can PK is better than one who sucks at it

 

[Sike Mullivan]

f*** I would take ZAR over him. Being an ineffective goof who can PK is better than one who sucks at it

Obviously my comment was tongue in cheek, as I really dont wanna re-hash that debate. I would take Tanev over McGinn though. No thanks to ZAR.

I think what this team really needs is a good old fashioned shake up trade or 2 like JR used to make. Kapanen for Hagelin and Blueger for Bonino.