Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: If we score 6 we win, its science!

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Just snark. Mainly.

But.

Guerin.

Cullen.

And Stanley Cups.

Coincidence?

There's always been unsubstantiated claims that a veteran presence was needed on the team. 2009...sure maybe. But today? There shouldn't be a need to get an old guy for that.

I mean, they didn't REALLY re-sign him for his play... Right? I mean, unless GMRH just really needed to get him a kickback.

I don't disagree. But I think that's just what guys in the FO and for sure the coaching staff says to pump guys tires they like. There are always old heads on every team that are leaned on for "experience" and "vet savvy" and every team that goes deep in the playoffs has some guy that steps up from the depth lines. It just makes for a nice storyline and that's why we hear so much about it. Just my two cents on that angle.

I think the core does a fine job in the locker room. Though honestly I think the whole concept of "leadership" or whatever is a bit overblown. Just don't be a dickhead, mostly. Ya know?

 

[SEALBound]

How do you mean? What does Carter provide there? I'm not being an ass I'm legitimately curious.

I don't see any issues with how the core handles it's responsibilities as team leaders.

He's been charged with some heavier defensive minutes. So in a 3C shutdown role...I dunno, I guess he does okay.

We don't need him as a leader. Sid, Geno, Letang, Dumo, Jake, etc have won as much as he has. We don't need big Daddy Cullen or Guerin anymore. If Sid, Geno, and Letang can't figure that part out...then it is what it is.

My gripe with Carter tends to be - we can't see to find a good set of wings that click with the 3rd line. It always seems to be a grind. Maybe if they keep McGinn-Carter-Kappy together, they can eventually build that chemistry but none of them are play drivers at the moment so it's tough.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's been charged with some heavier defensive minutes. So in a 3C shutdown role...I dunno, I guess he does okay.

We don't need him as a leader. Sid, Geno, Letang, Dumo, Jake, etc have won as much as he has. We don't need big Daddy Cullen or Guerin anymore. If Sid, Geno, and Letang can't figure that part out...then it is what it is.

My gripe with Carter tends to be - we can't see to find a good set of wings that click with the 3rd line. It always seems to be a grind. Maybe if they keep McGinn-Carter-Kappy together, they can eventually build that chemistry but none of them are play drivers at the moment so it's tough.

Carter would be fine enough as an all-offense 3C with some play-driving wings on a team with a more defensive top six. He could take softer minutes and be deployed more in the offensive zone. It would be a goofy setup IMO but that's where he would fit. As a guy who is leaned on by the coach for some reason for defensive assignments he's always gonna be an odd fit, here. Trying three scoring lines with a lot of guys with finishing/IQ problems is... well... a choice.

Happens a lot on this team. What a mystery as to why.

 

[SEALBound]

Carter would be fine enough as an all-offense 3C with some play-driving wings on a team with a more defensive top six. He could take softer minutes and be deployed more in the offensive zone. It would be a goofy setup IMO but that's where he would fit. As a guy who is leaned on by the coach for some reason for defensive assignments he's always gonna be an odd fit, here. Trying three scoring lines with a lot of guys with finishing/IQ problems is... well... a choice.

Happens a lot on this team. What a mystery as to why.

I'm not sure relying on Sid or Geno's line for an increased defensive role is the best way. I'm not sold that increasing Carter's offensive while cannibalizing Sid or Geno's would be an overall net positive. I think what you lose with Sid or Geno would not be made up by Carter. I think that's why we see them in the roles they are. There's certainly nothing that stops Carter's line from being an offensive force...except well...the fact that they may not be an offensive force (or capable of being one) to begin with.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not sure relying on Sid or Geno's line for an increased defensive role is the best way. I'm not sold that increasing Carter's offensive while cannibalizing Sid or Geno's would be an overall net positive. I think what you lose with Sid or Geno would not be made up by Carter. I think that's why we see them in the roles they are. There's certainly nothing that stops Carter's line from being an offensive force...except well...the fact that they may not be an offensive force (or capable of being one) to begin with.

Exactly correct. Which is why falling all over themselves to extend him was odd. If he were out there doing Staal stuff or in that neighborhood for 3ish million I'd be over here clappin' my ass off for the guy. But he's basically what all of the hardcore Malkin haters say Malkin is but for real.

 

[SEALBound]

Exactly correct. Which is why falling all over themselves to extend him was odd. If he were out there doing Staal stuff or in that neighborhood for 3ish million I'd be over here clappin' my ass off for the guy. But he's basically what all of the hardcore Malkin haters say Malkin is but for real.

Who are you refering to? Malkin or Carter?

Extending Carter was a bit premature. I get why they did it but I wish they hadn't. Same with Kapanen. $6.5mil extra space to work with in the offseason would have been nice.

Malkin, we needed to resign. The market on 2C made that easy. Look at what Kadri and Trocheck got. Malkin with his Pittsburgh legacy at $6.1mil is very tolerable.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Who are you refering to? Malkin or Carter?

Extending Carter was a bit premature. I get why they did it but I wish they hadn't. Same with Kapanen. $6.5mil extra space to work with in the offseason would have been nice.

Malkin, we needed to resign. The market on 2C made that easy. Look at what Kadri and Trocheck got. Malkin with his Pittsburgh legacy at $6.1mil is very tolerable.

Carter. Malkin was an easy choice to extend at 6M. Certainly easier than they made it look!

Basically I'm saying Carter would be likely-fine in a certain role. But that isn't the role he's being used in in Pittsburgh.

 

[SEALBound]

Carter. Malkin was an easy choice to extend at 6M. Certainly easier than they made it look!

Basically I'm saying Carter would be likely-fine in a certain role. But that isn't the role he's being used in in Pittsburgh.

Agreed.

I would say his best role would be a 2C role where you had two impact wings. Like if you could roll Zucker-Carter-Rakell, I think it would be fine. That line could take on both offensive and defensive roles. That's not happening here unless Sid or Geno gets hurt.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agreed.

I would say his best role would be a 2C role where you had two impact wings. Like if you could roll Zucker-Carter-Rakell, I think it would be fine. That line could take on both offensive and defensive roles. That's not happening here unless Sid or Geno gets hurt.

This team has had a lot of wonky fits and miscast roles for years, now. At least in my estimation. I wonder about their pro scouting sometimes. And coaching... but ya'll know how I feel about that by now.

 

[Andy99]

Just snark. Mainly.

But.

Guerin.

Cullen.

And Stanley Cups.

Coincidence?

There's always been unsubstantiated claims that a veteran presence was needed on the team. 2009...sure maybe. But today? There shouldn't be a need to get an old guy for that.

I mean, they didn't REALLY re-sign him for his play... Right? I mean, unless GMRH just really needed to get him a kickback.

And we also haven’t won a Stanley Cup without Kunitz and Fleury….man, we are f**ked…lol

 

[Turin]

I feel like from now until JR retires, every single Vancouver player will be linked to the Penguins. Whether it makes sense or not.
Also, does Horvat play wing? He wouldnt be a center here, so he most likely wouldnt re-sign.

I would love Horvat but he’s playing wing?

 

[Gurglesons]

Carter has 14 points in 26 games. Wins a tons of face-offs. And is a net positive in terms of GF% at 5v5. And is doing that while being fed less than 30% offensive zone starts.

Hard to get mad at that.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

For poops and laughs:

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
JVR - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Carter - Kapanen
Poehling - DOC - Archibald
Hallander

Chychrun - Letang
Pettersson - Petry
POJ - Rutta
Friedman - Ruhwedel

Jarry - DeSmith

(this is for next season)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Carter has 14 points in 26 games. Wins a tons of face-offs. And is a net positive in terms of GF% at 5v5. And is doing that while being fed less than 30% offensive zone starts.

Hard to get mad at that.

View attachment 621923

Yeah, I just don't get why people are still complaining about him. He's not super well suited as a pure defensive 3C that the Penguins use their 3C like, but why worry about a guy who's still doing decently well overall?

He's a 2-way 3C being used like a pure defensive 3C that's giving 3C results. What's the issue there?

 

[Pancakes]

Carter has 14 points in 26 games. Wins a tons of face-offs. And is a net positive in terms of GF% at 5v5. And is doing that while being fed less than 30% offensive zone starts.

Hard to get mad at that.

View attachment 621923

To @Empoleon8771 's point my only complaint is how Sullivan uses him. I don't think he's especially suited to take the defensive pounding that Sullivan makes him take but it's worked out I guess.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah, I just don't get why people are still complaining about him. He's not super well suited as a pure defensive 3C that the Penguins use their 3C like, but why worry about a guy who's still doing decently well overall?

He's a 2-way 3C being used like a pure defensive 3C that's giving 3C results. What's the issue there?

I think at face value, comparatively, there isn't an issue when you look at other teams' 3Cs.

My issue is that, while watching the game and looking at the stats, I have the never-ending question of "Is Carter performing as is (relative to his ceiling) going to get us a cup?"

You can't get a cup with two top 6 lines. We need every line. I do believe there is a question about whether or not the McGinn-Carter-Kapanen line is a good enough line to get us deep into the playoffs. It's no Kunitz-Malkin-Rust or HBK (Depending upon which one you consider the 3rd line to have been).

 

[Gurglesons]

@AuroraBorealis



told ya.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

@AuroraBorealis



told ya.

Nice deal for them.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nice deal for them.

In a vacuum it makes a lot of sense. When you look at their cap picture it makes no sense.

Why try to rebuild if you are just going to give every player over 28 term and over 4 mil?

Guess they probably move our Arvidsson this summer. He'd be a nice add for us.



hopefully our rivals are Philly and the Caps LOL.

 

[IcedCapp]

Do I exude "middle-ish aged guy who obsesses entirely too much over his cat because nobody else will talk to him" vibes that heavily? Geez.

Anyway uh... McGinn for L2. If Rust really is coming back around it should work fine.

No, I thought this was actually cat torture, making them watch the penguins

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

No, I thought this was actually cat torture, making them watch the penguins

He just likes the new digital ads and Big Jeff Carter's hair and ability to have multiple mates.

I told you cats don't get hockey, man.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Push Carter to RW, elevate Blueger. Trade Kapanen. I think McGinn - Blueger - Carter would be a stronger defensive line that can still score, and features two natural centermen, one lefty and one righty, to help on d zone faceoffs. Even better if we can score a McGinn+ at the LW and bump him down to 4th line. That will take some pressure of Carter and allow him to keep a little more in the tank for the duration of the season. The money saved from letting Zucker walk and trading Kappy can be deployed for a Kessel level difference maker.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Stud LW - Malkin - Rust
McGinn - Blueger - Carter
DOC - Poehling - Archibald
Hallander Puustinen

 

[AuroraBorealis]

In a vacuum it makes a lot of sense. When you look at their cap picture it makes no sense.

Why try to rebuild if you are just going to give every player over 28 term and over 4 mil?

Guess they probably move our Arvidsson this summer. He'd be a nice add for us.

They're done rebuilding, I thought. Not gonna be dealing for more picks. If anything they'll be giving them away.
Now it's just about consistent playoff entry and annual improvement.

I don't know enough about those 6 impending RFA's to comment.
The Doughty contract really hurts them. If he makes what he should then Moore fits in easily there.
At least they'll get some savings on Quick.

 

[chethejet]

Pens have 20 million to sign Jarry and potential LW2 and really that is about it. Smith is here with Rutta next year and I prefer and better LD with Letang but that is secondary. Carter is here next year but if Kap is moved then he is RW and Teddy B is 3C. McGinn is not what I prefer for LW3 but not the worst player there. Then you have Poehling, DOC Poulin, Hallander and Puusiten maybe is here for 4th line competition. I like to find out if Puusiten is a capable RW at some point.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Pens have 20 million to sign Jarry and potential LW2 and really that is about it. Smith is here with Rutta next year and I prefer and better LD with Letang but that is secondary. Carter is here next year but if Kap is moved then he is RW and Teddy B is 3C. McGinn is not what I prefer for LW3 but not the worst player there. Then you have Poehling, DOC Poulin, Hallander and Puusiten maybe is here for 4th line competition. I like to find out if Puusiten is a capable RW at some point.

I'd like a top 4 level LD to replace Dumo, ideally one with a modicum of PP ability.
POJ may continue this form into next year, but that's hardly a lock.
Smith can't PK and is currently getting outplayed by Friedman by all accounts. Rolling the dice on him next year may not work.

As much as I want Smith to succeed here, time is precious with this old core. Finding a reliable option (like we did with Rutta), may be the best course.