Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[Empoleon8771]

I'm also completely fine with keeping Zucker, because if he doesn't pan out next year, you can just let him walk after the year and then have his cap space to play with in the 2023 FA summer. It's the same reason why I'd much rather trade Pettersson than Dumoulin, you can get out of both Pettersson and Dumoulin next year by trading Pettersson now and letting Dumoulin walk after next year.

My complete speculation is that if they want to "be active" in free agency, they'd want to target another winger for Malkin (in addition to Rakell) and have Zucker on L3 when the team is healthy. This would involve letting likely both Heinen and Kapanen go and hoping Carter and Zucker can carry the 3rd line. Otherwise, I don't even really see a spot to spend money on in free agency. Maybe a bottom pair LD to upgrade on POJ?

 

[Hottubber]

Bet Rak wouldn’t be too happy if he signed and then they dealt Petterson

 

[Malkinstheman]

Kind of disappointed that they aren’t really looking to trade Dumo. He hasn’t been great for a while now and the D could really use a shakeup.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'm also completely fine with keeping Zucker, because if he doesn't pan out next year, you can just let him walk after the year and then have his cap space to play with in the 2023 FA summer. It's the same reason why I'd much rather trade Pettersson than Dumoulin, you can get out of both Pettersson and Dumoulin next year by trading Pettersson now and letting Dumoulin walk after next year.

My complete speculation is that if they want to "be active" in free agency, they'd want to target another winger for Malkin (in addition to Rakell) and have Zucker on L3 when the team is healthy. This would involve letting likely both Heinen and Kapanen go and hoping Carter and Zucker can carry the 3rd line. Otherwise, I don't even really see a spot to spend money on in free agency. Maybe a bottom pair LD to upgrade on POJ?

I think this is exactly what their ideal scenario is and why they've been trying to get Letang and Malkin at under a combined $14 million AAV (which looks very realistic now).

You do that, move out Pettersson even if you have to take a $1 million or so cap hit back, let Heinen and Kapanen walk. Now you have $12 million or so to re-sign Rakell, add another middle six winger, and maybe add a third pairing right handed defensemen who adds some grit but who could also sit if Ruhwedel is playing well.

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust
UFA - Malkin - Rakell
Zucker - Carter - Puustinen
DOC - Blueger - McGinn
Zohorna

Dumoulin - Letang
Matheson - Marino
POJ - UFA
Friedman - Ruhwedel

Jarry/DeSmith

 

[ChaosAgent]

I feel like this is all kinda information we could have inferred but it's interesting to see nonetheless.

I'm curious about the "be active in FA" angle, though. If they're not trading Zucker and they want to bring back Rakell and Malkin, there isn't really many spots on the roster to "be active in FA" with.

Rakell could be the FA I guess. From a certain POV.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I kinda can't help but feel like unless you get a total stud 2C to replace Malkin that going into next season with Raks and Zucker/Kap/Heinen as your second line wing options is dicey. I'd frankly rather have one legit dude and some scrub than all four of those guys.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think this is exactly what their ideal scenario is and why they've been trying to get Letang and Malkin at under a combined $14 million AAV (which looks very realistic now).

You do that, move out Pettersson even if you have to take a $1 million or so cap hit back, let Heinen and Kapanen walk. Now you have $12 million or so to re-sign Rakell, add another middle six winger, and maybe add a third pairing right handed defensemen who adds some grit but who could also sit if Ruhwedel is playing well.

Yeah, the only real negative is that you don't really have a great option for the 3rd line RW if you let both Heinen and Kapanen go. It's not necessarily a major negative though, just find this year's version of Heinen to put with Zucker and Carter.

With Trocheck at $6 million, Malkin at $6 million, Rakell at $4.5 million, you're $1.2 million over the cap with 12 forwards, 7 D and a goalie. Replacing Pettersson with POJ at $800k puts you at $2 million in cap space with needing a 3rd line RWer and an extra forward. That is certainly doable.

 

[molon labe]

I’m disappointed that we didn’t unload some guys. The kool aid gang can all defend sleepy, but I’m sorry, it isn’t hard to move Dumo or Pettersson (with a sweetener, if necessary).

Maybe sleepy is too busy dealing with Malkin’s agent.

They specifically said they're interested in moving some cap. Just don't know what that looks like.

That doesn't mean you include a sweetener to 'unload' Dumo. That's stupid asset management and would deserve criticism.

The move is Pettersson. Zucker a close second.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Yeah, the only real negative is that you don't really have a great option for the 3rd line RW if you let both Heinen and Kapanen go. It's not necessarily a major negative though, just find this year's version of Heinen to put with Zucker and Carter.

With Trocheck at $6 million, Malkin at $6 million, Rakell at $4.5 million, you're $1.2 million over the cap with 12 forwards, 7 D and a goalie. Replacing Pettersson with POJ at $800k puts you at $2 million in cap space with needing a 3rd line RWer and an extra forward. That is certainly doable.

I edited to add a potential lineup that has Puustinen as the 3RW and DOC as the 4LW with Zohorna in reserve.

Such an approach would allow you to be aggressive with Malkin's wingers and competitive with your 3 RD.

 

[molon labe]

Yeah, the only real negative is that you don't really have a great option for the 3rd line RW if you let both Heinen and Kapanen go. It's not necessarily a major negative though, just find this year's version of Heinen to put with Zucker and Carter.

With Trocheck at $6 million, Malkin at $6 million, Rakell at $4.5 million, you're $1.2 million over the cap with 12 forwards, 7 D and a goalie. Replacing Pettersson with POJ at $800k puts you at $2 million in cap space with needing a 3rd line RWer and an extra forward. That is certainly doable.

Heinen to me - on his worst nights, was forgettable. Sorta like Pearson's time here but justifiably cheaper. Both were aggravating but at least Heinen was cheap.

Kappy... maybe it's expectations maybe it's how he plays - but he seemed utterly worthless and a risk to carry on your team on his worst nights because he made 3x what Heinen did. I understand his upside but if it ain't here it ain't here. Same with Zucker. There's no try before you buy options in pro sports (not really)...so you gotta take it on the chin occasionally. If Kappy comes in at 1.5 or less so be it. Anything more is questionable for his usage and ability to be consistent.

 

[Pens x]

They specifically said they're interested in moving some cap. Just don't know what that looks like.

That doesn't mean you include a sweetener to 'unload' Dumo. That's stupid asset management and would deserve criticism.

The move is Pettersson. Zucker a close second.

I meant a sweetener with Pettersson, not Dumo.

Sleepy has dealt a second, third and fourth pick. Is that stupid asset management?

 

[molon labe]

I meant a sweetener with Pettersson, not Dumo.

Sleep has dealt a second, third and fourth pick. Is that stupid asset management?

We have cap space for the first time in a millenia. We have Letang at less money than this year instead of more. Likely Geno too. We have cap coming off the books in the future.... Our goalie tandem is locked down for less than the price of a single league-average goalie (someone is about to f'n pay Kemper 7x7)... There's no reason at all to be upset this Summer. Doing so is being a negative nancy.

Trigger Jim would have spent the farm on depth pieces and we'd have ZERO draft picks, not our first not anything. We'd have his idea of 'flexibility' with about 150k in cap space and 3 reclamations in the D corps/bottom 6 that has everyone wondering about next season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The more I think about it, the more I'm totally fine with letting Kapanen go if the Penguins are adding 2 top-6 wingers for Malkin. The only reason I want to hold on to Kapanen is because I think there is top-6 upside there based on what he did in 2020-2021. If he can get back to that level, I think he'd be an incredibly solid 2nd line RWer. But if you're adding 2 actual 2nd line wingers, what's the point of keeping Kapanen based on that hope of potential? You don't need him to be a top-6 winger for you if you have Guentzel, Rust, Rakell and Trocheck signed for 3-6 years. I think Kapanen could be a legitimate game changing 3rd liner on the Penguins, but I'm not interested in sacrificing Malkin's line to see if he can be that here.

I think the Penguins will miss Heinen's production from the bottom-6, I think he was arguably their most consistent bottom-6 producer last year. But at the same point, you should be able to find guys like Heinen in free agency for $1 million, just like the Penguins did when they signed Heinen.

 

[Pens x]

We have cap space for the first time in a millenia. We have Letang at less money than this year instead of more. Likely Geno too. We have cap coming off the books in the future.... Our goalie tandem is locked down for less than the price of a single league-average goalie (someone is about to f'n pay Kemper 7x7)... There's no reason at all to be upset this Summer. Doing so is being a negative nancy.

Trigger Jim would have spent the farm on depth pieces and we'd have ZERO draft picks, not our first not anything. We'd have his idea of 'flexibility' with about 150k in cap space and 3 reclamations in the D corps/bottom 6 that has everyone wondering about next season.

You have no standards if you are satisfied with our goalie tandem.

You can’t celebrate this off season until you see what sleepy does the extra cap space. For example, what if he pays Erod $3 million with the savings? Is that still a success?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Heinen to me - on his worst nights, was forgettable. Sorta like Pearson's time here but justifiably cheaper. Both were aggravating but at least Heinen was cheap.

Kappy... maybe it's expectations maybe it's how he plays - but he seemed utterly worthless and a risk to carry on your team on his worst nights because he made 3x what Heinen did. I understand his upside but if it ain't here it ain't here. Same with Zucker. There's no try before you buy options in pro sports (not really)...so you gotta take it on the chin occasionally. If Kappy comes in at 1.5 or less so be it. Anything more is questionable for his usage and ability to be consistent.

Right. This is what I keep on saying re: Zucker and to a lesser degree Kapanen. Hey... the team tried. They took a hard cut at the ball hoping to get their guy and struck out. It's no hard feelings... sometimes shit doesn't work out.

I just don't want to see them keep clinging to a guy for years trying to tease something out of them that probably isn't there. I get that Zucker has extenuating circumstances in the form of constant injuries that make it harder to move on. But in Kapanen's case I really hope they just move on, now. And I do get he is intriguing to some because of his perceived ceiling. And is a pretty good 3rd liner as-is. But I don't think this team should be prioritizing that right now with the second line at the moment being one huge question mark.

But I mean if dude wants to sign like a 1.5M dollar deal here for some reason by all means. Like I said he's still a fine 3rd line guy and would be great on the PK... were he ever used there.

I dunno. I actually think Kapanen could still break out, maybe. I just don't know that this team has the luxury of waiting around to find out.

 

[Zbynek]

Qualifying Kapanen and Heinen is lose/lose. Unless you give them a hefty raise on their QO's, they'll get about 3million in arbitration. At that price I'd rather add some new faces in UFA.

Malkin seems to think we are keeping Kap though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To add another thought, you could also get your top-6 sorted out this off-season for the next 3-5 years and then focus on your bottom-6 going forward. At least in an ideal scenario, you'd hope that Guentzel-Crosby-Rust and Rakell-Malkin-Trocheck would be able to be top-6 caliber for at least 3 years. As more contracts expire (like Zucker and Dumoulin) and the cap goes up more and more, you could go target those luxury, "Kapanen on the 3rd line" type of acquisitions.

I really like the idea of the Zucker-Carter-Puustinen line. In theory, you should be able to find someone to play RW on that line between a cheap UFA, Puustinen, Poulin, Hallander, O'Connor and Zohorna.

Qualifying Kapanen and Heinen is lose/lose. Unless you give them a hefty raise on their QO's, they'll get about 3million in arbritration. At that price I'd rather add some new faces in UFA.

Malkin seems to think we are keeping Kap though.

I think it's Malkin wants Kapanen back more than he expects him back.

Kapanen seems popular in the locker room.

 

[Power Surge]

We lost the last two playoffs due to goaltending. What did he do about it?

I thought it was because of Sullivan. Make up your mind

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Pens x]

I thought it was because of Sullivan. Make up your mind

Sullivan and co. did horribly at coaching special teams, but goaltending was still the biggest reason we lost - not the only reason.

It doesn’t matter, lazy ass isn’t doing anything about either coaching or goaltending, and some are completely fine with that because he didn’t sign Jack Johnson to a 5 year deal.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I wish they could be more like Seattle and go out and spend big money on some name goaltender only for him to leave big greasy brown streaks all over his crease all season long, anyway.

Throwing money at goaltending is dumb and doesn't work.

 

[Pens x]

I wish they could be more like Seattle and go out and spend big money on some name goaltender only for him to leave big greasy brown streaks all over his crease all season long, anyway.

Throwing money at goaltending is dumb and doesn't work.

Sticking with the same two goalies that have cost us the last two years in then playoffs, either from always being injured or sucking, is also dumb.

If they fail again what season, can we all agree sleepy needs to go?

 

[Peat]

If you have Heinen and Kapanen's RFA rights and need to move out Pettersson to afford both of them, that seems like a pretty clear motivation.

That's my realistic hope for this off-season, just move out Pettersson and keep the middle-6 wingers (Zucker, Rakell, Heinen and Kapanen). You have a lot of flexibility with how you can set up the 2nd and 3rd line wingers with those 4.

With trading Pettersson and signing Malkin ($6 million AAV), Rakell ($4.5 million AAV), Kapanen ($3 million AAV), Heinen ($2.5 million AAV) and POJ ($800k), you're at $2.53 million in cap space with only needing 1 extra forward.

My guess is that Hextall is too cautious to commit to keeping his RFAs until he knows people are going. It sounds like he'd like to move them out so he can keep them, but will take the easy road if he can't find the moves he makes.

That said, it sounds like he thinks he can make something work here. Fingers crossed. Like you, I am curious as to what he'd like to do in free agency.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sticking with the same two goalies that have cost us the last two years in then playoffs, either from always being injured or sucking, is also dumb.

As usual... zero nuance.

I suppose in hindsight you would have preferred them to sign top level goaltending four deep? Seeing as how an extremely unfortunate rash of injuries concentrated on just their goaltending depth wiped them out?

If you want to gripe gripe about the team letting a 3-1 lead go "poof" -- not goaltending. Of COURSE Domingue was bad. It was a miracle he did what he did, frankly. Every team's goaltending that deep is going to be bad. Or maybe gripe about how trash it is that this league lets guys just run around in the playoffs headhunting.

 

[Coastal Kev]

are they going to kiss?