Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

hfboards.mandatory.com

Click to read more...

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Devlis fans hate Blackwood and think he is not good enough. And Blackwood has expressed the desire to get out of NJ.

That being said, if someone thinks the Devils would trade #2 Overall for Jarry they should be checked into western psych. It's pure crazy talk.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also re: Fleury how did he do the last few playoffs, again?

Not that it matters in Pittsburgh where the whole idea seems to be just to qualify only to get ignobly dunked on for one round before being sent home with their tail between their legs. So hey why not.

.906 save% last year, .918 in 2021, .910 in 2020 and .909 in 2019.

I think that falls in the "about average" category. You're not winning or losing because of your goalie when your goalie is putting up like a .910 save% in the playoffs. Think Fleury in 2014, you're not losing because of him in the playoffs but he's not really helping you win either.

 

[Pancakes]

In the heat of the moment in the playoffs I was upset that Desmith got hurt but honestly, even if he hadn't, we don't win the cup with him in net.

When we had Maf/Murray that was a luxury and we can't afford it any more. If we could, it'd be fantastic, but we can't, so we might as well go cheap on it. Desmith can at least give us some quality regular season starts when needed. If he has to start in the playoffs, we probably lose, but so what, almost any team loses with their backup in.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Someone is actually saying CDS is a 1B......el oh l

 

[Scandale du Jour]

In the heat of the moment in the playoffs I was upset that Desmith got hurt but honestly, even if he hadn't, we don't win the cup with him in net.

When we had Maf/Murray that was a luxury and we can't afford it any more. If we could, it'd be fantastic, but we can't, so we might as well go cheap on it. Desmith can at least give us some quality regular season starts when needed. If he has to start in the playoffs, we probably lose, but so what, almost any team loses with their backup in.

No, but we beat the Rangers and buy time for Jarry to come back.

 

[Pancakes]

No, but we beat the Rangers and buy time for Jarry to come back.

Do we? Jarry had a bunch of ice on his foot after game 7. Not so sure he'd be ready and capable of giving us good starts in round2 even if Desmith gets us by the Rangers.

Having an expensive backup is a luxury we can't afford. We're already pinching pennies with our 2c and our #1 d.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

.906 save% last year, .918 in 2021, .910 in 2020 and .909 in 2019.

I think that falls in the "about average" category. You're not winning or losing because of your goalie when your goalie is putting up like a .910 save% in the playoffs. Think Fleury in 2014, you're not losing because of him in the playoffs but he's not really helping you win either.

Fleury had his... moments... in every one of those runs, though. As he almost always does. His little impromptu breakdance on top of the puck behind the net to eliminate Vegas for the second time (this was an encore to his 4 powerplay goals against performance or whatever it was the year before) was especially choice.

It's not really a commentary one way or the other. I personally don't care much. Fleury... Jarry... whatever. Just don't cost like over 4M against the cap.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No, but we beat the Rangers and buy time for Jarry to come back.

To be fair, they also beat the Rangers if Jarry doesn't get hurt either.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Stats are literally all that matters when it comes to goalies. All that matters is how good they are at stopping a puck, period. This isn't like it is with skaters when non-statistical subjectivity can come in. All that matters with goalies is what percentage of shots they face go in the back of the net. That's all that matters.

This is where I'll disagree. Just like with skaters, stats can be misleading as hell with goalies.

-High danger chances vs all point shots
-When you make a save

The former can be made into a stat, but you can't objectify the latter.

Best example I give people:


At the :50 mark I dare you to tell me that isn't a different game if MAF doesn't stone Ovi. I'm not saying we don't win. That merely goes down as just 1 save but it set the tempo for how the remaining time will go

It's impossible to quantify this. ANd it doesn't have anything to do with CDS discussion per se but I wanted to speak to it

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Do we? Jarry had a bunch of ice on his foot after game 7. Not so sure he'd be ready and capable of giving us good starts in round2 even if Desmith gets us by the Rangers.

Having an expensive backup is a luxury we can't afford. We're already pinching pennies with our 2c and our #1 d.

I am not saying that Jarry comes back for game 1 of R2. But with CDS, with beat the Rangers and Jarry gets a least one more week before we have to play him.

Does CDS get us past the Canes? Now, that's a tougher question.

To be fair, they also beat the Rangers if Jarry doesn't get hurt either.

That's true.

 

[SomeDude]

Do we? Jarry had a bunch of ice on his foot after game 7. Not so sure he'd be ready and capable of giving us good starts in round2 even if Desmith gets us by the Rangers.

Having an expensive backup is a luxury we can't afford. We're already pinching pennies with our 2c and our #1 d.

Yes, we would have beat the Rags with pretty much any NHL caliber goalie in net. Spicy pork is an AHLer and looked the part. They still barely squeaked by with a giant liability in net.

Honestly, CDS may have even been enough to get passed the Canes. They had their own goalie injuries and just looked mediocre that round. We'd need Hasek circa 1997 to have a chance after that, though.

 

[Pancakes]

Fleury had his... moments... in every one of those runs, though. As he almost always does. His little impromptu breakdance on top of the puck behind the net to eliminate Vegas for the second time (this was an encore to his 4 powerplay goals against performance or whatever it was the year before) was especially choice.

It's not really a commentary one way or the other. I personally don't care much. Fleury... Jarry... whatever. Just don't cost like over 4M against the cap.

We're paying under 5 million for two goalies which seems pretty solid to me, especially if they can replicate the results they had this year.

Yes, we would have beat the Rags with pretty much any NHL caliber goalie in net. Spicy pork is an AHLer and looked the part. They still barely squeaked by with a giant liability in net.

Honestly, CDS may have even been enough to get passed the Canes. They had their own goalie injuries and just looked mediocre that round. We'd need Hasek circa 1997 to have a chance after that, though.

Perhaps. Canes did look like ass. They kinda owned us during the regular season though, but then again so did the Rangers and we turned that around.

Buncha what ifs in the end. Desmith needs to earn his keep this year and keep Jarry rested enough and healthy enough to start for us in the playoffs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fleury had his... moments... in every one of those runs, though. As he almost always does. His little impromptu breakdance on top of the puck behind the net to eliminate Vegas for the second time (this was an encore to his 4 powerplay goals against performance or whatever it was the year before) was especially choice.

It's not really a commentary one way or the other. I personally don't care much. Fleury... Jarry... whatever. Just don't cost like over 4M against the cap.

Yeah going with Fleury over Jarry isn't "I think Fleury is better than Jarry", it's more "I think you're better with Fleury at $4 million and a 1st rounder than keeping Jarry".

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

We're paying under 5 million for two goalies which seems pretty solid to me, especially if they can replicate the results they had this year.

Yeah I agree. I am absolutely the furthest thing from a "spend big money on goaltending" guy.

Where are the results for that particular strategy?

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah I agree. I am absolutely the furthest thing from a "spend big money on goaltending" guy.

Where are the results?

Depends what you consider good results I suppose. Obviously the playoff success wasn't there, but they both got hurt so...

The regular seasons they put up were pretty good.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Depends what you consider good results I suppose. Obviously the playoff success wasn't there, but they both got hurt so...

The regular seasons they put up were pretty good.

I'm sorry I worded that badly and made a slight edit.

I mean where are the results for teams dumping big money into goaltending? Seems pretty sparse for going on 20 years, to me.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah going with Fleury over Jarry isn't "I think Fleury is better than Jarry", it's more "I think you're better with Fleury at $4 million and a 1st rounder than keeping Jarry".

Maf would be fine here I'm sure but he is 37. I'd rather lean on a young goalie. Jarry has theoretical improvement he could make. Maf will never get any better, most likely. He's on the decline.

 

[K Fleur]

“And with the 21st pick the Penguins select Drew Tangradi”

“You know Drew had an uncle in the Pens organization. What a great legacy pick”.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maf would be fine here I'm sure but he is 37. I'd rather lean on a young goalie. Jarry has theoretical improvement he could make. Maf will never get any better, most likely. He's on the decline.

I think you hope that Lindberg or Blomqvist is that young goalie and you just use Fleury as a placeholder until they're ready.

But like I said, it's more about getting that high trade return for Jarry from a desperate team. You know teams would absolutely pay out the ass for him.

[MOD]

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Maf would be fine here I'm sure but he is 37. I'd rather lean on a young goalie. Jarry has theoretical improvement he could make. Maf will never get any better, most likely. He's on the decline.

Yeah but like he said... IF you can get assets back for Jarry (a first makes this scenario an automatic yes from me) and just go with a vet like Fleury instead I see no big downside. Why would I worry about what they do in the playoffs? This team has made it it's specialty to do f***-all in the playoffs for like half a decade. The difference in quality between a MAF and Jarry won't make up for that.

It's sure swell that they've been able to create nice storylines for other teams like the Rangers and Islanders over the years, though. We can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment in that!

 

[SEALBound]

4 pages of CDS purse swinging. Awesome. Awesome.

 

[Empoleon8771]

4 pages of CDS purse swinging. Awesome. Awesome.

People just getting ready for the shitshow for when Malkin signs in Washington

[MOD]

 

[Pancakes]

I think you hope that Lindberg or Blomqvist is that young goalie and you just use Fleury as a placeholder until they're ready.

But like I said, it's more about getting that high trade return for Jarry from a desperate team. You know teams would absolutely pay out the ass for him.



No, I think you should just strive to provide more quality content than just posting things that I said that you think are stupid.

I defended JJ for years and called him a light beer Letang. Nothing of mine that you can quote from recently comes even close to that.

The only problem with this is Jarry has only one year left on his deal so I don't know if anybody would pay out the ass for him. Maybe...

There are teams that want goalies bad.

Yeah but like he said... IF you can get assets back for Jarry (a first makes this scenario an automatic yes from me) and just go with a vet like Fleury instead I see no big downside. Why would I worry about what they do in the playoffs? This team has made it it's specialty to do f***-all in the playoffs for like half a decade. The difference in quality between a MAF and Jarry won't make up for that.

It's sure nice that they've been able to create nice storylines for other teams like the Rangers and Islanders over the years, though. We can feel a sense of pride and accomplishment in that!

See above.

That said, I think one thing you both need to keep in mind as well is Maf is far from a guarantee to sign here. That's a pretty big hitch in this plan as well..

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only problem with this is Jarry has only one year left on his deal so I don't know if anybody would pay out the ass for him. Maybe...

There are teams that want goalies bad.

Kuemper only had 1 year left last year and Colorado paid Timmins, 1st and 3rd for him. Timmins had injury issues and I think his career is toast due to them, but I imagine you can get that kind of return for Jarry.

Colorado, Edmonton and Toronto all seem super desperate for a starting goalie, and there aren't a ton of options out there. With New Jersey allegedly being the favorite to land Campbell, that really only leaves Fleury, Kuemper and Husso (who's a huge flash in the pan risk himself) as legitimate starter options. The next best options after those 3 are guys like Holtby and Jones.

Imagine what Edmonton would give up for Jarry. They're cash strapped, so Jarry at $3.5 million would be super appealing for their cap, plus Jarry played for the Edmonton Oil Kings in juniors.

 

[SEALBound]

Jarry+Heinen+Poulin
for
Alex Newhook+Rights to Kadri

Newhook+John Marino+Rights to Kadri+Rights to Malkin
for
4OV+Soucy+rights to Donato

Select Cooley.

Jake-Sid-Rust
Zucker-Trochek-Rakell
Cooley-Carter-Kapanen
Zohorna-Bleuger-McGinn

Dumo-Letang
Matheson-Soucy
Pettersson-Rudwedel

MAF-CDS

I tried.