Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap: Free Agency, everyone panic!!! Geno talk to the Geno thread only please

[Zirakzigil]

Off season time. New thread time apparently cause @Ugene Magic doesn’t like high page counts.

So how about them Malkin and Letang UFAs? Maybe we should sign one or both.

Geno thread. Keep Geno talk here:

Rumor: - Geno where art thou?

With all the Geno rumors and news, time for its own thread. Keep the Geno talk here please.

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[ronduguayshair]

It's not okay. But that doesn't mean the goal should be for Malkin to play low event hockey like he's Brian bloody Boyle centering a glorified checking line.

The goal should be to give him competent support so L2 can actually be a good scoring line, as it would be if the brass made it anything other than an afterthought with failed scoring line experiments like Zucker and Kapanen...who were sadly the best of the bunch the last couple years until Rakell was acquired.

but you can't if he wants the money he wants.


It is sad people don't get this. But we have to make excuses for #71. Kid gloves superstar.

 

[Josey Wales]

but you can't if he wants the money he wants.


It is sad people don't get this. But we have to make excuses for #71. Kid gloves superstar.

UMMM NO That is Sid

 

[Ryder71]

Heinen was solid but I do wonder if that was as good as it’ll get from him

Relative to his salary he accorded himself rather well. Definitely want him back.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Blows my mind how much people rag on Heinen and E-Rod.

They both vastly out performed their contracts and both produced in the playoffs. Especially E-Rod, dude had 5 points in 7 games including a huge goal in game 7. Heinen also scored in game 7.

What more do people want from players paid like 1 mil?

But they go to bat for the highest paid player on the team with only 3 primary 5 on 5 assists.

It is so disgustingly hypocritical.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Heinen had what felt like the lowest highs and highest lows of any player. He had a few good stretches, and was never bad even when he was off. I also think he call play well with either Carter or Malkin.

This is a perfect example where stats don't tell the story. Heinen is fine as a player, the problem is that he brings nothing different to the team. When he's not in scoring during one of his streaks, he's just there and that's the problem with this current roster. Too many guys built the same way. When it's all clicking offensively, the team looks like one of the best in the league. But this never happens in a playoff game, they aren't built for playoffs.

When they won in 08, they had freakish skill combined with a team that could go to the dirty areas and YOUTH.

16/17, they were among the fastest teams that had freakish skill in their prime and dominated with puck possession.

Current day, their freakish skilled players are no longer in their prime. They may be slightly above average to average with their speed. They are near the bottom with strength, which causes them to get dominated at times on the boards and in front of both nets. How does that team win? What makes them special? We know the answer, they aren't. Which is why their seasons have ended pretty much in the same fashion for the past 4 season.

Based on the offseason so far........

 

[Pancakes]

Blows my mind how much people rag on Heinen and E-Rod.

They both vastly out performed their contracts and both produced in the playoffs. Especially E-Rod, dude had 5 points in 7 games including a huge goal in game 7. Heinen also scored in game 7.

What more do people want from players paid like 1 mil?

E-Rod also cost us big time with a horrifically dumb penalty in game 6. We might have won that game and the series but for that.

He was a solid player for us overall though and I'm not opposed to him coming back at the right price.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Lol go talk to your alts again Rondo.

This is a perfect example where stats don't tell the story. Heinen is fine as a player, the problem is that he brings nothing different to the team. When he's not in scoring during one of his streaks, he's just there and that's the problem with this current roster. Too many guys built the same way. When it's all clicking offensively, the team looks like one of the best in the league. But this never happens in a playoff game, they aren't built for playoffs.

When they won in 08, they had freakish skill combined with a team that could go to the dirty areas and YOUTH.

16/17, they were among the fastest teams that had freakish skill in their prime and dominated with puck possession.

Current day, their freakish skilled players are no longer in their prime. They may be slightly above average to average with their speed. They are near the bottom with strength, which causes them to get dominated at times on the boards and in front of both nets. How does that team win? What makes them special? We know the answer, they aren't. Which is why their seasons have ended pretty much in the same fashion for the past 4 season.

Based on the offseason so far........

Kev and I rarely agree on much, but I think this is a solid argument.

 

[ColePens]

It's so weird who people want to hate on so bad. Like... let's spend all of our time hating Danton Heinen getting minimal dollars but be totally okay with Teddy Blueger's 18gp 1g 1a -3.

Everyone and their mother knows my perspective around here. I think the coaching is the major issue. You can shuffle the deck a million times but the deck is limited due to the coaching.

But then again.. Coop was/could have been fired by Tampa and he came through for them. So sometimes patience is a virtue.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

This is a perfect example where stats don't tell the story. Heinen is fine as a player, the problem is that he brings nothing different to the team. When he's not in scoring during one of his streaks, he's just there and that's the problem with this current roster. Too many guys built the same way. When it's all clicking offensively, the team looks like one of the best in the league. But this never happens in a playoff game, they aren't built for playoffs.

When they won in 08, they had freakish skill combined with a team that could go to the dirty areas and YOUTH.

16/17, they were among the fastest teams that had freakish skill in their prime and dominated with puck possession.

Current day, their freakish skilled players are no longer in their prime. They may be slightly above average to average with their speed. They are near the bottom with strength, which causes them to get dominated at times on the boards and in front of both nets. How does that team win? What makes them special? We know the answer, they aren't. Which is why their seasons have ended pretty much in the same fashion for the past 4 season.

Based on the offseason so far........

This is fair

 

[ColePens]

And also maybe this year was just bad luck. Before Sid got injured, we were absolutely SMOKING the Rangers in that game 5. They couldn't even move the puck. We were suffocating them. Carter went out there w/ 2 AWFUL shifts and the whole thing changed.

So maybe this year was just bad luck. But then again....... 4 first round exits are unacceptable. Period.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He was a solid player for us overall though and I'm not opposed to him coming back at the right price.

I think both Heinen and Rodrigues have definite value to this team, but this team needs a different mix. I'd give them fair offers, but on the lower side of things and see if they bite, and if not, well, start looking for replacements.

But I guarantee that someone's going to see Erod's 19 goals and think "Well, he went cold there but here he could be a 20/20 guy" and give him a hell of a raise. And if Erod is smart, he'll take that for as long term as he can negotiate.

 

[Pens x]

Blows my mind how much people rag on Heinen and E-Rod.

They both vastly out performed their contracts and both produced in the playoffs. Especially E-Rod, dude had 5 points in 7 games including a huge goal in game 7. Heinen also scored in game 7.

What more do people want from players paid like 1 mil?

The problem is that Erod will want more than $1 mill.

 

[Ryder71]

The problem is that Erod will want more than $1 mill.

Sign Heinen, tell EROD to go f*** himself.

 

[HandshakeLine]

It's so weird who people want to hate on so bad. Like... let's spend all of our time hating Danton Heinen getting minimal dollars but be totally okay with Teddy Blueger's 18gp 1g 1a -3.

Everyone and their mother knows my perspective around here. I think the coaching is the major issue. You can shuffle the deck a million times but the deck is limited due to the coaching.

But then again.. Coop was/could have been fired by Tampa and he came through for them. So sometimes patience is a virtue.

I think in the end you have to do two things out of three if they're serious about the "competing until the end" line-- you need to change the coach, you need to change the coach's system, or you need to change the supporting cast.

I think the first is never going to happen. The second might happen, but only if you address the third, first.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I could have sworn it was in the high 50's/low 60's when I was tracking them during the season. Think it's just an error to be honest.
There were too many game logs I can recall where they had great xGF% for it to be 48% now. Makes zero sense.
The eye test certainly leans that way as well.

Rust was disappointing with Geno last year but I don't think it would stay that way moving forward. I trust him to get it together.
He just had some kind of emotional lull for a stretch, after getting demoted.

Pretty convinced we'll get the most out of Rakell with Jake though. Those 2 are brilliant together.

I think Jake Crosby Rakell would be an excellent line but GCR has been one of the better lines in hockey at times so I would be fine with keeping it if it means Geno gets a legit guy on the wing in Rakell.

 

[ChaosAgent]

What, no! I mean that people who want there to be defensive hockey here are also the people that cried about Geno's game 7 performance, when it was one of the better defensive performances a Penguins line has given in the last few years.

I see a lot of posts about two way play and defense winning championship truisms, and yet, nobody wants to actually set up a defensive team or play a Constantine style defensive game. And for good reason-- it's boring. A lot of people just seem to want to bring up defense as an excuse to move Geno or Letang, but at the same time, don't actually notice or appreciate when they turn in excellent defensive performances. That's all.

Geno's playoff performance was exceptional. It's why I want him back. It mattered the most even though the regular season was 6x the sample size.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Geno's playoff performance was exceptional. It's why I want him back. It mattered the most even though the regular season was 6x the sample size.

I know man. Sorry if it sounded like I was calling you out or something, that wasn't my intention.

 

[Pens x]

It's so weird who people want to hate on so bad. Like... let's spend all of our time hating Danton Heinen getting minimal dollars but be totally okay with Teddy Blueger's 18gp 1g 1a -3.

Everyone and their mother knows my perspective around here. I think the coaching is the major issue. You can shuffle the deck a million times but the deck is limited due to the coaching.

But then again.. Coop was/could have been fired by Tampa and he came through for them. So sometimes patience is a virtue.

How many consecutive years did Coop go not making it past the first round? Tampa was patient with him in that he was still making it to conference finals. We are patient with Sully for far less.

I agree that Sully is still the team’s biggest issue.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Yep which is why I think Geno is playing chicken here. The media has made Geno out to be this wild Russian guy who was unpredictable. Geno will never come over to USA! Geno will leave the Pens after his first contact! Geno will never play 2C to Sid.

Geno has been the most consistent dude ever. He says he loves playing with Sid, loves playing in Pittsburgh, and his family is now in Florida. The only two teams I would see him go to are in Florida specifically to be closer to his family. I think he wants to be a Penguin for life and then retire.

The media always tends to build these weird Geno narratives. Geno, himself, has pretty much been consistent in his messaging since day 1.

Exactly, if people can't understand what the media stands for now I dont know what to tell them. Its always about a story and ratings no matter how outlandish it is. Whether it's hockey or everyday life. Usually the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

It just so happens our "Hockey" media is pretty disconnected so you get what you get

 

[Peat]

It's so weird who people want to hate on so bad. Like... let's spend all of our time hating Danton Heinen getting minimal dollars but be totally okay with Teddy Blueger's 18gp 1g 1a -3.

Everyone and their mother knows my perspective around here. I think the coaching is the major issue. You can shuffle the deck a million times but the deck is limited due to the coaching.

But then again.. Coop was/could have been fired by Tampa and he came through for them. So sometimes patience is a virtue.

Who's actually hating what Heinen did on minimal dollars though? People are looking at what he did and asking how we'd feel about it once he got a paybump, which he gets if we bring him back, but that's not hating what he did.

Also as long as Blueger's in a role getting buried in defensive zone starts playing strong oppo, then yeah, he's going to struggle to score, and he's going to struggle to have great 5v5 stats when he's constantly in front of a constant goaltending catastrophe.

Just like there's not a lot of reason to expect great things out of ERod unless restored to the role in which he did great things.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

No problem at all bringing Heinen back for small money, I found he did a solid job and is a guy we can move around in the lineup.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Consumers get the crappy hockey media because that's what sells. That is what people buy over and over. That's why I'm cynical about Taylor staying a great beat reporter here because in the end the market's gonna grind her down, like it ground down JB, Molinari, and... even D.K! It's weird to remember that he was once a really good cub reporter for the Pens and then the Pittsburgh media market somehow warped him.

 

[ColePens]

I think in the end you have to do two things out of three if they're serious about the "competing until the end" line-- you need to change the coach, you need to change the coach's system, or you need to change the supporting cast.

I think the first is never going to happen. The second might happen, but only if you address the third, first.

I actually totally agree. I think all our time on HF there is 2 things the very loud minority always yell for:
1) TRADE ALL THE PLAYERS
2) PROSPECT "X" IS GOING TO BE THE GOAT

A couple minor adjustments from Sully (lol) and the lineup with a little luck could have made last year a run. But Louis Domingue f***ing sucked and our top goalies were out.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Once the team purges Zucker, we can do whatever we want with Heinen. Hell, I'd like him back then.

But if I see Zuck, Heinen, and McGinn all in our opening day lineup, Hextall will have failed. Period.

 

[Ryder71]

How many consecutive years did Coop go not making it past the first round? Tampa was patient with him in that he was still making it to conference finals. We are patient with Sully for far less.

I get your point, but they also have the best goalie in the modern era, that's a big variable to consider. We had freakin Louie Domingue. VASI can make anyone look good. That said, FIVE CONSECUTIVE PLAYOFF series losses is unacceptable!