Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[Malkinstheman]

So Dubas' goal is to buy low while also trying to plan for the future.

I dunno, this wishy-washy contend now while looking to the future stuff is kinda silly imo. The Penguins should pick a lane. Either you're trying to win or you're not. Putting one foot in the pool is just gonna make us potentially be in that dead zone of not being a playoff team but not being truly bad either.

100% agree. I've liked everything Dubas has said except his contend but look to the future approach. That's exactly what Hextall was doing too. If Pickering+14th gets you an upgrade, do it. Plan for the future when the core retires.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I guess the question is what the AAV bar is for a "highly expensive Forward".

Pretty much. We all expect him to chase Bunting, but I imagine Bunting's gonna have to turn some more lengthy, lucrative offers to fit "inexpensive". Which, why the hell would he do that?

Don't care. Still riding the Hellebuyck train til the wheels fall off

There were never wheels on that train, bud.

 

[Pancakes]

I mean this is the same guy who said he'd take a year off if he wasn't back with Toronto then a week later moved his family to Pittsburgh

Let's wait for an actual move.

100%. I’ll judge Dubas on his actual moves, but this media conference was exactly what Ron Hextall peddled for three years.

I'm with both of you. I'm not going to judge him until I see his actual moves, but what he's trying to do seems like an impossible ask.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So Dubas' goal is to buy low while also trying to plan for the future.

I dunno, this wishy-washy contend now while looking to the future stuff is kinda silly imo. The Penguins should pick a lane. Either you're trying to win or you're not. Putting one foot in the pool is just gonna make us potentially be in that dead zone of not being a playoff team but not being truly bad either.

I don't wanna be a hair-on-fire guy so I'm with the majority in that we gotta wait to see what is actually done. These pressers are usually just a big dog and pony show mostly for our mouths-agape nimrod local yokel reporters.

But yeah I'm with you. If this team just keeps on with this flaccid middle-of-the-road trash for another couple years then shrugs lamely when Sid/Malkin ACTUALLY age out of being useful and say "hey we TRIED" Imma be furious.

Either rebuild and see how Sid/Malkin/Letang feel about moving on or retiring or try everything you can to do them right. One or the other not f***ing both. We've already seen what that gets us.

 

[Pancakes]

I don't see the problem with this? If you can get legitimate NHL talent like Ullmark, Hall, Granlund or such by taking advantage of cash strapped teams, why wouldn't you do that over paying huge assets for better players?

For as much as this place screams about asset management, I would have figured that what Dubas said would be appealing here. They're going to try to take advantage of teams who need to clear cap instead of overpaying in trades or in free agency.

Buying low is fine, but taking the first and our prospects off the table is an extremely limiting thing to do.

He should be trying to buy low and peddling those assets at the same time.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Buying low is fine, but taking the first and our prospects off the table is an extremely limiting thing to do.

He should be trying to buy low and peddling those assets at the same time.

But he never did that, he said he'd prefer not to trade them unless they could get a young long-term solution.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

If a high energy, sandpaper guy who has a top 10 scoring forward in this UFA class, has hit 60 points recently, and is only going to be 28 at the start of the season, doesn't get a big long term contract then ... no, I've got nothing. It's not going to happen.

I see it as a "smaller bet" because I'm sure plenty of people are wondering if he can produce like that away from Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares.

Not sure what Kyle defines as "long-term, highly-expensive". Does it have to be both long-term and highly-expensive? Just one of those two? Is "long term" 6 or 7 years? Or does it include a 5 year deal? And what is "highly-expensive"?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We'll see what he can do, I guess. I think it's silly to imagine a complete revamp to this roster, and every summer we all put together ideas and plans way more ambitious and with way more urgency than what happens in reality.

Dubas is around for 7 years, iirc. I imagine he's not looking to make the longer-term picture worse by throwing every available asset at somebody like Hellebuyck, who is probably just gonna walk anyway because he wants to win a Cup, and this team ain't getting that done for him.

Most of the presser was GM media speak, cliche/scripted garbage. I was interested in him saying he's gonna try to make deals with cash strapped teams to try and poach talent via trade. There are a couple of guys I'd like in FA, but they're all likely to get silly bidding wars for their services (Barbashev, Bunting, Graves).

Again, we'll see what he can do. I don't expect much, never do. Still feels like we're in a holding pattern until the era winds to a close, especially after half a decade of awful drafting/development and asinine mismanagement from JR and Hextall. /shrug

 

[Pancakes]

But he never did that, he said he'd prefer not to trade them unless they could get a young long-term solution.

That means you're taking players off the table who could help and fit the (small) window of contention the Pens still have.

For example, if we're to take what he said there at face value, that means no moving those assets for Connor Hellebuyck. Are you okay with that?

 

[SomeDude]

So Dubas' goal is to buy low while also trying to plan for the future.

I dunno, this wishy-washy contend now while looking to the future stuff is kinda silly imo. The Penguins should pick a lane. Either you're trying to win or you're not. Putting one foot in the pool is just gonna make us potentially be in that dead zone of not being a playoff team but not being truly bad either.

I have a feeling behind closed doors FSG and Dubas are aware this team is done as a contender and the plan is to just not bottom out and keep it respectable until the core is gone.

 

[Peat]

i mean if you think all you need is depth pieces that’s very true…I would argue Sid and G need a lot more help than who you’re suggesting…we need a winger who can carry play and finish…we’re not going to contend thinking this is 2012 and Sid and G will be fine with Tangradi on their wing

The state of the core has next to sweet fanny adams to do with his free agency plans

Because, being generous, there's two guys top who are outright better than what you can get in trade and that's Tarasenko and Bertuzzi and honestly I'm not either of those who put a team over the top.

All him shying away from UFA says is he will spend more assets to get better value players. He isn't shying away from players of that calibre or at least, not in UFA.

I don't see the problem with this? If you can get legitimate NHL talent like Ullmark, Hall, Granlund or such by taking advantage of cash strapped teams, why wouldn't you do that over paying huge assets for better players?

For as much as this place screams about asset management, I would have figured that what Dubas said would be appealing here. They're going to try to take advantage of teams who need to clear cap instead of overpaying in trades or in free agency.

The problem is it seems impossible to gain the amount of NHL talent this team needs to be considered at least a dark horse contender without spending the big assets because this team is a distance away.

I like that he's looking to target cap strapped teams but if he is serious about being a contender then I think 14OA or Pickering are going to have to get used at some point and I'd rather do it now as part of taking advantage of cap strapped teams.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That means you're taking players off the table who could help and fit the (small) window of contention the Pens still have.

For example, if we're to take what he said there at face value, that means no moving those assets for Connor Hellebuyck. Are you okay with that?

Depends on the alternatives. If it's trading #14 and Pickering for Hellebuyck or #14 for Swayman and Hall, I'd be completely happy for him to not trade for Hellebuyck.

Hellebuyck is the best goalie they can acquire by far, but acquiring him would completely drain them of their assets and cap space (mostly beyond this year) to do anything to address the other holes on their roster.

The problem is it seems impossible to gain the amount of NHL talent this team needs to be considered at least a dark horse contender without spending the big assets because this team is a distance away.

I like that he's looking to target cap strapped teams but if he is serious about being a contender then I think 14OA or Pickering are going to have to get used at some point and I'd rather do it now as part of taking advantage of cap strapped teams.

He did say that he was willing to trade those pieces for a younger solution, though. Like I said above, #14 for Swayman and Hall would fit what he said regarding trading his top picks and prospects and also be taking advantage of a cap strapped team.

 

[Pancakes]

I have a feeling behind closed doors FSG and Dubas are aware this team is done as a contender and the plan is to just not bottom out and keep it respectable until the core is gone.

That'd be a pretty big knife in the back to Sid unless he's also on board with that plan

Depends on the alternatives. If it's trading #14 and Pickering for Hellebuyck or #14 for Swayman and Hall, I'd be completely happy for him to not trade for Hellebuyck.

Sure, that's fair. I just think it's a limiting thing to do. Maybe the Swayman/Hall deal isn't there but Hellebuyck is but Hellebuyck doesn't happen because he won't move assets.

Granted, it is all lip service until we see what he actually does. No reason he can't go back on his initial thoughts.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I'm both ready to sing praises or to flip this f***ing table over

Depending on the next two weeks

 

[DesertedPenguin]

100% agree. I've liked everything Dubas has said except his contend but look to the future approach. That's exactly what Hextall was doing too. If Pickering+14th gets you an upgrade, do it. Plan for the future when the core retires.

He didn't say Pickering is off the table.

If they can acquire young talent, they'll do it. But they're not going to trade a first round pick or a Pickering for an older player.

 

[mpp9]

I’ll vomit if we move the 14th and a top prospect for a goalie. We ain’t a goalie away from competing. And we’ll have zip left to address other holes.

 

[xlm34]

I think trying to compete while trying to build for the future generally just gets you mediocre results in both so we’ll see what Dubas ends up doing.

I definitely think the first should be in play, and it sounds like it is under the perfect circumstances. I’m totally fine with him keeping it if the alternative is using it to dump Granlund or acquire a Zucker/Kapanen/Perron type of player.

And I’m totally fine with him staying away from guys who are going to demand big contracts in free agency.

 

[OnMyOwn]

I wonder what players on cap strapped teams he’s gonna go after?

 

[SomeDude]

I'm both ready to sing praises or to flip this f***ing table over

Depending on the next two weeks

May I suggest a growing emotional disconnect as apathy sets in?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Sid knows as well as anybody just how much work this team needs. He's the consummate professional, so you'll never see him say it publicly, but it's no secret that this team hasn't been able to escape the 1st round since 2018.

I'm not a fan of the continued bullshit of "We're all in as long as Sid's here, super pinky promise guys" while simultaneously saying they won't part with the only valuable assets they have (which have middling value, tbh).

I still expect something to happen on the draft floor. Maybe it involves the 14th overall, maybe it doesn't. Still, this team needs a buncha work to even keep up the bullshit masquerade of recent years, pretending they're still relevant. I imagine FSG knows the era is over, and Dubas being around for at least 7 years is indicative that there's a common understanding. I just want the team to be less shit to watch on any given night. Contending is over and done with, but don't be f***ing boring.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a feeling behind closed doors FSG and Dubas are aware this team is done as a contender and the plan is to just not bottom out and keep it respectable until the core is gone.

I think that most people understand they are in "dark horse" territory even with some real savvy, bold moves. But I dunno... if this is really their thought process not only does it feel extremely pointless and borderline shitty to have brought the core back on good deals but also just... such a loser's mentality. To not even try while "building futures" that are mostly comprised of like... middling first round picks is such a waste of time.

Either be totally shit or actually TRY, ya know? This duplicitous double-speak nonsense sucks. IF that's what is going on.

 

[Peat]

I see it as a "smaller bet" because I'm sure plenty of people are wondering if he can produce like that away from Matthews, Marner, Nylander, and Tavares.

Not sure what Kyle defines as "long-term, highly-expensive". Does it have to be both long-term and highly-expensive? Just one of those two? Is "long term" 6 or 7 years? Or does it include a 5 year deal? And what is "highly-expensive"?

Fair point about what exactly he means but out of the 32 teams in the NHL, I bet you 4 feel absolutely sure they've got equal talent for him to produce with and they need more sandpaper and they've got the cap space and they gon' go for it and Bunting will get a good deal. And certainly a long one. What good does a 4 year deal do him? Sell his best years then go back to market when he's on the downswing? His agent should be out there looking for 6 years.

That means you're taking players off the table who could help and fit the (small) window of contention the Pens still have.

For example, if we're to take what he said there at face value, that means no moving those assets for Connor Hellebuyck. Are you okay with that?

This.

I have a feeling behind closed doors FSG and Dubas are aware this team is done as a contender and the plan is to just not bottom out and keep it respectable until the core is gone.

I wouldn't be utterly surprised

But I am f***ing pissed off with lip service and expect them to make good their words

Plus, Hextall did just get canned in part for failing to make good on those words

He did say that he was willing to trade those pieces for a younger solution, though. Like I said above, #14 for Swayman and Hall would fit what he said regarding trading his top picks and prospects and also be taking advantage of a cap strapped team.

Does Hall fit? Depends a little how we interpret his words but I don't know he does.

Would you be happy to see us get Swayman for Pickering if we then see Hellebuyck go for a similar prospect?

There's a lot of guys who can be part of a solution who have seemingly been ruled out. They might short term be better value than younger guys, If we're talking asset value then, given our situation, this is driving away from it.

 

[SomeDude]

I wouldn't be utterly surprised

But I am f***ing pissed off with lip service and expect them to make good their words

Plus, Hextall did just get canned in part for failing to make good on those words

That’s because their words of planning to build a contending team while also building towards the future is not a possible task. It’s one or the other or you end up with neither.

 

[Pancakes]

I think Sid knows as well as anybody just how much work this team needs. He's the consummate professional, so you'll never see him say it publicly, but it's no secret that this team hasn't been able to escape the 1st round since 2018.

I'm not a fan of the continued bullshit of "We're all in as long as Sid's here, super pinky promise guys" while simultaneously saying they won't part with the only valuable assets they have (which have middling value, tbh).

I still expect something to happen on the draft floor. Maybe it involves the 14th overall, maybe it doesn't. Still, this team needs a buncha work to even keep up the bullshit masquerade of recent years, pretending they're still relevant. I imagine FSG knows the era is over, and Dubas being around for at least 7 years is indicative that there's a common understanding. I just want the team to be less shit to watch on any given night. Contending is over and done with, but don't be f***ing boring.

It depends what you mean by contending. I don't think they're a serious cup favorite any more, but I don't think a deep playoff run is impossible and maybe with some miraculous health luck and Dubas hitting homers with most of his moves...mayyyybe a cup is possible.

If they shoot themselves in the foot by not using all available assets it might well be over though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Does Hall fit? Depends a little how we interpret his words but I don't know he does.

Would you be happy to see us get Swayman for Pickering if we then see Hellebuyck go for a similar prospect?

There's a lot of guys who can be part of a solution who have seemingly been ruled out. They might short term be better value than younger guys, If we're talking asset value then, given our situation, this is driving away from it.

I feel like Hellebuyck would cost a lot more than that, though. If the price is the same, you obviously trade for Hellebuyck. But I don't see why that would be the case.

And yes, I think Hall would fit. He kept mentioning how he wanted to take advantage of other team's cap situation and Hall is a prime guy to be available for no assets. Dubas also said the Penguins needed talent, and Hall is obviously very talented.