Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[Empoleon8771]

If we had a POJ caliber prospect instead of Chad and Friedman last season we make the playoffs.

Yes, their combined -2 in 70 games while playing 14 minutes a night is definitely why the Penguins missed the playoffs last year.

Man, some of you have some downright whack opinions on things. The Stanley Cup runner up Florida Panthers had the 36 year old carcass of Marc Staal playing 21 minutes a night in the playoffs. The Penguins playing Ruhwedel or Friedman for 20-40 games didn't do shit regarding their playoff chances, which is exactly the impact that injury subs like Ruhwedel and Friedman have. They don't do shit positively or negatively, they're bodies that have no impact when they play.

 

[SomeDude]

Chad Ruhwedel sucks. If he's a #8 that has to play a handful of games in the NHL a season, okay. The more he plays, the more clear it is that he is not a full-time NHL level player.

I anxiously await the colorful chart that tries to prove what everyone can see with their eyes as false.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Chad Ruhwedel sucks. If he's a #8 that has to play a handful of games in the NHL a season, okay. The more he plays, the more clear it is that he is not a full-time NHL level player.

I anxiously await the colorful chart that tries to prove what everyone can see with their eyes as false.

What does Chad Ruhwedel not do for his role that makes him suck?

I don't understand why people on this site pick the most irrelevant players they can think of to complain about, whether it be positive (guys like Riikola and Puustinen) or negative (guys like Ruhwedel and Friedman). Well actually, there are still even people who complain about Friedman not playing enough on here.

With all of the issues on this team, why is Chad Ruhwedel even worth having a strong opinion over?

 

[SomeDude]

What does Chad Ruhwedel not do for his role that makes him suck?

I don't understand why people on this site pick the most irrelevant players they can think of to complain about, whether it be positive (guys like Riikola and Puustinen) or negative (guys like Ruhwedel and Friedman).

Did you watch him get manhandled in front of the net night after night? Constantly not pick up his guy or get his ankles broken because he's not good? I'll say it again, Chad Ruhwedel sucks. If he's playing more than a few games a year on your blueline, your team likely sucks.

I have no qualms with Friedman. He adds an element of physicality that nobody else on the roster does and he's not a bad player.

 

[PensandCaps]

Ok cool but he also played great in the cup finals before. And played great in 17. Bob has played like trash for 4 years and then almost willed his team to a cup.

Goalies are crazy and the few that show true consistency are elite and dont come around often.

But to say Fleury was an overall bad goalie is dumb.

He was overall, a subpar starter here. And overall a really bad one in the postseason.

His numbers are nothing great. Average starter stuff.

 

[Peat]

I would much rather have the chance at getting a top prospect at #14 in a stacked draft over having 2 good prospects in Pickering plus who you'd get at #33.

Fair enough. I would rather have that too, but not to the same extent I think that I'd do one and recol at the other

I definitely can't agree with this. I sure as hell don't know that Gibson is this, but a great goalie will mask a lot of the problems on this team and I don't think POJ vs who else the Penguins could realistically get for their 2nd pair LD will realistically have that big of an impact.

I don't think a defense with Letang and Petry at the top should need another substantial addition to the defense, and if it does, I'm seriously questioning why they're spending that kind of money on Letang and Petry. I think you'd need to acquire someone substantial to even notice a significant enough impact over POJ, Soucy over POJ by me is more of a stylistic preference to me than anything.

Well yes, I am proposing getting someone substantial. Someone who can drive play at all three zones and increase the pace with the Pens play, both stopping our D looking like a ton of ass and helping the forwards finish their chances (which by now is the longest running issue the Pens have in the regular season).

I've already said if it's Soucy vs POJ I'm not super bothered, although I have to admit that I am dubious POJ can keep a top 4 slot all season long. I think he'd have to improve a substantial amount defensively not to get caved in when no longer getting the team's easiest assignments, which also makes him an unideal compliment to our top 4 RD. Although I'll note Dobber says Soucy got very similar looking assignments the lucky boy.

But there's absolutely room for a top 4 LD of substance to make a huge difference. Or even just a steady guy that's not asking Letang or Petry to be carrying a guy who shouldn't be there. Which given they're both in their mid-30s and on high end #2 money doesn't seem all that questionable to me.

 

[PensandCaps]

Anaheim could offer John Gibson for free and I would laugh at them. Definitely not giving up anything of value for him unless it involves retention and taking Granlund.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Did you watch him get manhandled in front of the net night after night? Constantly not pick up his guy or get his ankles broken because he's not good? I'll say it again, Chad Ruhwedel sucks. If he's playing more than a few games a year on your blueline, your team likely sucks.

I have no qualms with Friedman. He adds an element of physicality that nobody else on the roster does and he's not a bad player.

And yet nothing in his actual results suggest that had any tangible impact on the team.

This isn't even an analytics argument. In 279 games with the Penguins, Ruhwedel is a -3 that usually plays #6 minutes in the games he's not scratched for. His impact on the team is nothing. I don't understand what you'd expect out of a depth guy if "injury replacement that doesn't hurt the team" isn't good enough.

Especially considering the original comment that sparked this discussion was about how the Penguins could keep POJ to healthy scratch him and how they needed depth D.

Well yes, I am proposing getting someone substantial. Someone who can drive play at all three zones and increase the pace with the Pens play, both stopping our D looking like a ton of ass and helping the forwards finish their chances (which by now is the longest running issue the Pens have in the regular season).

I've already said if it's Soucy vs POJ I'm not super bothered, although I have to admit that I am dubious POJ can keep a top 4 slot all season long. I think he'd have to improve a substantial amount defensively not to get caved in when no longer getting the team's easiest assignments, which also makes him an unideal compliment to our top 4 RD. Although I'll note Dobber says Soucy got very similar looking assignments the lucky boy.

But there's absolutely room for a top 4 LD of substance to make a huge difference. Or even just a steady guy that's not asking Letang or Petry to be carrying a guy who shouldn't be there. Which given they're both in their mid-30s and on high end #2 money doesn't seem all that questionable to me.

I think there is definitely usefulness in adding that, but like I said, I'm seriously questioning the money I spend on Petry and Letang if I need to bring in another substantial defenseman.

I think they need an Edmundson or Cole type of guy to play with Petry, but they still have a guy who can play in that role right now in POJ. Would he be ideal? No, of course not. But you're not going to be losing games because you have to play POJ 18 minutes a night until the trade deadline. It's something I want to address, but the holes on the other areas of the roster are far too big for me to treat it as anything more than a want right now.

 

[Peat]

Friedman's results last year were good. I liked him when he played. I'd be happy for him to be #7 next year.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

That's a total luxury to acquire. You don't need a #2 to play with Letang. It would be nice to have, but there are actual issues on the roster that need to be addressed and a luxury like that isn't worth it.



I hope both play 82 games next year just to see you whine about it.

We need shutdown guy with some sandpaper. Our backend is paper soft and one of our biggest issues is teams camping out in front of the net like they own it.

I wouldn't say it's a luxury, it's a need.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We need shutdown guy with some sandpaper. Our backend is paper soft and one of our biggest issues is teams camping out in front of the net like they own it.

I wouldn't say it's a luxury, it's a need.

If it's a need, it pales in comparison to needs regarding the goalies and bottom-6.

I want a guy like Edmundson to play with Petry, but they have a guy who can play in that 18 minutes a night role until the deadline with POJ. You need to address the goalie situation and bottom-6 situation this off-season, you can wait on the LD until the deadline.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

We're at the "Chad Ruhwedel doesn't actually suck" portion of the off-season, I guess.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

you can wait on the LD until the deadline.

That's an unknown. If POJ sucks in that role then irreparable damage may be done to their playoff hopes by the deadline, at the 60 game mark.
But I'm with you in that goaltending is a clear priority here.

 

[Gurglesons]

We're at the "Chad Ruhwedel doesn't actually suck" portion of the off-season, I guess.

Mikael Granlund is good.

Tristan Jarry is the best option on the market.

Chad Ruhwedel is the perfect # 7.

Yes, their combined -2 in 70 games while playing 14 minutes a night is definitely why the Penguins missed the playoffs last year.

Man, some of you have some downright whack opinions on things. The Stanley Cup runner up Florida Panthers had the 36 year old carcass of Marc Staal playing 21 minutes a night in the playoffs. The Penguins playing Ruhwedel or Friedman for 20-40 games didn't do shit regarding their playoff chances, which is exactly the impact that injury subs like Ruhwedel and Friedman have. They don't do shit positively or negatively, they're bodies that have no impact when they play.

Having a POJ or a Ty Smith to layer in underneath your top six is exactly the argument you are making.

You are potentially adding a player that can be a top four guy for a stretch versus a guy who has no impact.

Friedman's results last year were good. I liked him when he played. I'd be happy for him to be #7 next year.

Friedman was fine with the puck on his stick. The issues came when he didn’t have it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's an unknown. If POJ sucks in that role then irreparable damage may be done to their playoff hopes by the deadline, at the 60 game mark.
But I'm with you in that goaltending is a clear priority here.

There is no reason to think that will be the case, though.

Having a POJ or a Ty Smith to layer in underneath your top six is exactly the argument you are making.

You are potentially adding a player that can be a top four guy for a stretch versus a guy who has no impact.

And that's not reasonable to expect out of a #7 D sitting in the press box. That kind of guy is a young prospect in the AHL that can come up. They don't have that because of bad management by JR and Hextall, that has nothing to do with Ruhwedel.

What you get out of a #7D that sits in the press box when healthy is "hope they don't hurt you when they play". That's it. That's what depth players provide. Anything like "play a substantial role when there are injuries" are what prospects in the AHL provide. Keeping guys like that as a #7D is something that no teams do, because it's a horrible management of assets.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Goaltending's top priority. Reshaping the 3rd line entirely is right there with goaltending imo, and the team needs to make a Sullivan 3rd line so he has a trio to throw out there for defensive shifts and to cycle/pressure to give Sid and Geno a rest. (*fart noise* goaltending and 3rd liners)

I do think they need a significant scoring winger for Geno's line and a top-4 LD though. Maybe not as dire as the prior two issues, but pretty substantial needs.

I don't envy Dubas' job. Dude's set up to fail.

 

[SomeDude]

And yet nothing in his actual results suggest that had any tangible impact on the team.

This isn't even an analytics argument. In 279 games with the Penguins, Ruhwedel is a -3 that usually plays #6 minutes in the games he's not scratched for. His impact on the team is nothing. I don't understand what you'd expect out of a depth guy if "injury replacement that doesn't hurt the team" isn't good enough.

Especially considering the original comment that sparked this discussion was about how the Penguins could keep POJ to healthy scratch him and how they needed depth D.

That's just not true. The Pens were kings of the deflating goals last year and Ruhwedel was on the ice for many of those. The more he played, the more he was exposed. I honestly encourage you to go watch some games and single in on him and come back and tell me again that he was anything other than a liability.

Are you really going to career +/- to try to show a player doesn't suck? Really?

This team needs defense. From top to bottom improvements. Calling a top 4 d-man a luxury on this team is just strange. Rutta is decent enough but I would only consider him a top-4 d-man if he can have a partner like Hedman in TB. Pettersson has his moments, but again is likely more of a depth guy on an actual good team. Letang is what he is. Petry too. The demise of Dumo has left a gaping hole that Pettersson did an okay job at covering at times, but if you want to have a good team he's not going to cut it.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

There is no reason to think that will be the case, though.

I don't expect it, but I would prefer a safeguard this summer. Don't see that they have to wait.

 

[Gurglesons]

There is no reason to think that will be the case, though.



And that's not reasonable to expect out of a #7 D sitting in the press box. That kind of guy is a young prospect in the AHL that can come up. They don't have that because of bad management by JR and Hextall, that has nothing to do with Ruhwedel.

What you get out of a #7D that sits in the press box when healthy is "hope they don't hurt you when they play". That's it. That's what depth players provide. Anything like "play a substantial role when there are injuries" are what prospects in the AHL provide. Keeping guys like that as a #7D is something that no teams do, because it's a horrible management of assets.

so Vegas was “horribly managing” assets last year by having Whitecloud, Hague and Hutton?

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's just not true. The Pens were kings of the deflating goals last year and Ruhwedel was on the ice for many of those. The more he played, the more he was exposed. I honestly encourage you to go watch some games and single in on him and come back and tell me again that he was anything other than a liability.

Are you really going to career +/- to try to show a player doesn't suck? Really?

This team needs defense. From top to bottom improvements. Calling a top 4 d-man a luxury on this team is just strange. Rutta is decent enough but I would only consider him a top-4 d-man if he can have a partner like Hedman in TB. Pettersson has his moments, but again is likely more of a depth guy on an actual good team. Letang is what he is. Petry too. The demise of Dumo has left a gaping hole that Pettersson did an okay job at covering at times, but if you want to have a good team he's not going to cut it.

Yes, that's literally his job. A depth player's role is literally "just don't hurt us". If there was a player who would come in and have a significant impact from being a healthy scratch, they wouldn't be a healthy scratch.

I'm not saying Ruhwedel is good or bad, I'm saying he has a negligible impact on the team results and the fact that the team is neither losing nor winning when he's on the ice is a pretty clear indication of that. I have no issues whatsoever with getting rid of him, but I really struggle to see Chad Ruhwedel being the #7D as a problem on the roster that is even worth mentioning.

so Vegas was “horribly managing” assets last year by having Whitecloud, Hague and Hutton?

What are you talking about?

Having Ben Hutton as your #7D is totally fine. He's a 29 year old nobody who won't kill you when he plays. Which is exactly what he did, he played 16 minutes a night in heavily sheltered usage and didn't kill the team.

If you want to waive Ruhwedel to pay Ben Hutton $900k a year to sit in the press box, sure. I don't think anyone would have any issue with that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kill all depth players thanks

Straight up bury them

 

[SomeDude]

Yes, that's literally his job. A depth player's role is literally "just don't hurt us". If there was a player who would come in and have a significant impact from being a healthy scratch, they wouldn't be a healthy scratch.

I'm not saying Ruhwedel is good or bad, I'm saying he has a negligible impact on the team results and the fact that the team is neither losing nor winning when he's on the ice is a pretty clear indication of that.

When he's playing D like 9:10 in this:


He's bad and he's actively hurting the team.

It's not like that was some mirage, either. If you really wanted to, you could probably come up with a 30 minute long highlight tape of Ruhwedel's season with plays that bad.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, that's literally his job. A depth player's role is literally "just don't hurt us". If there was a player who would come in and have a significant impact from being a healthy scratch, they wouldn't be a healthy scratch.

I'm not saying Ruhwedel is good or bad, I'm saying he has a negligible impact on the team results and the fact that the team is neither losing nor winning when he's on the ice is a pretty clear indication of that.



What are you talking about?

Having Ben Hutton as your #7D is totally fine. He's a 29 year old nobody who won't kill you when he plays. Which is exactly what he did, he played 16 minutes a night in heavily sheltered usage and didn't kill the team.

Hague was healthy scratched for Hutton as was Whitecloud.

For some reason according to you keeping POJ in that role is “horrendous asset management”.

POJ is also likely going to be a career 6-7.

 

[Empoleon8771]

When he's playing D like 9:10 in this:


He's bad and he's actively hurting the team.

It's not like that was some mirage, either. If you really wanted to, you could probably come up with a 30 minute long highlight tape of Ruhwedel's season with plays that bad.

You can pull up clips of every single hockey player making horrible plays like that, though.

If you want to upgrade on Ruhwedel, sure I'm all for it. He's a negligible impact player so they're losing nothing by getting rid of him. I just don't see him being the #7D as a problem even worth mentioning. More importantly, I don't see Ruhwedel as the #7D being a reason for why they need to keep POJ as a healthy scratch.

Hague was healthy scratched for Hutton as was Whitecloud.

For some reason according to you keeping POJ in that role is “horrendous asset management”.

Hague played in 81 games, Whitecloud played in 59 games and Hutton played in 31 games last year.

Seems pretty clear that they weren't throwing someone like POJ into the pressbox. Hutton was clearly their #7D. And if Ruhwedel as your #7D is such a problem, just go sign someone like Hutton in free agency for the 2 year, $850k AAV deal that Vegas signed him for that role.

 

[Gurglesons]

You can pull up clips of every single hockey player making horrible plays like that, though.

If you want to upgrade on Ruhwedel, sure I'm all for it. He's a negligible impact player so they're losing nothing by getting rid of him. I just don't see him being the #7D as a problem even worth mentioning. More importantly, I don't see Ruhwedel as the #7D being a reason for why they need to keep POJ as a healthy scratch.



Hague played in 81 games, Whitecloud played in 59 games and Hutton played in 31 games last year.

Seems pretty clear that they weren't throwing someone like POJ into the pressbox. Hutton was clearly their #7D. And if Ruhwedel as your #7D is such a problem, just go sign someone like Hutton in free agency for the 2 year, $850k AAV deal that Vegas signed him for that role.

I was referring to the Knights in 21-22.

Hutton and Coghlan played 50 ish.

If we can get a Geekie for POJ, I’ll happily do it. I just think people are far overvaluing what any other team will pay for him.