Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Why? Let them go add a guy later if it goes bad. They need youth a fresher legs. If anything they both NEED to play.

If you aren't playing them both then trade one at this point. Neither should be on the bench. And neither should be in WBS. They would get claimed on the way down anyways.

POJ was also 79 in P/60 for a dman. Trade him before benching him.

Why? Because none of us have any idea what Smith is at the NHL level in this system, and POJ had some genuinely awful showings last season and wore down as the season went on. Pretty simple. /shrug

Letang and Petry will be one year older and have one more season's worth of wear to their bodies.

I don't really give two shits about P/60 tbh. Somebody had Heinen as this team's like 5th best player in P/60 and the dude sucks.

 

[Allie Kitsune]

Yeah I think anyone, myself included are advocating for Gibson because we feel he would stabilize the goaltending position at a reclamation project price tag. I feel like a lot of people think anyone who wants Gibson wants him because he’s the good ol’ local boy but that has no bearing on it. Although I do think him being a local kid would put us at the top of his list of places to play.

Whatever pisses off Facebook Yinzers is what we should do.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Having POJ as a # 7 is fine. Dude isn’t anything special.

It's a bad use of assets more than anything. POJ is more valuable as a trade chip to add a forward than to sit him in the press box.

 

[Darren McCord]

Having POJ as a # 7 is fine. Dude isn’t anything special.

Sure but he will be only 24. Why push him out of the lineup to start the season. He had 1 less evs pt than letang on the year. Dude should get another year to prove himself instead of signing another uninspiring player like Rutta.

It's a bad use of assets more than anything. POJ is more valuable as a trade chip to add a forward than to sit him in the press box.

This 100%.

 

[Darren McCord]

Why? Because none of us have any idea what Smith is at the NHL level in this system, and POJ had some genuinely awful showings last season and wore down as the season went on. Pretty simple. /shrug

Letang and Petry will be one year older and have one more season's worth of wear to their bodies.

I don't really give two shits about P/60 tbh. Somebody had Heinen as this team's like 5th best player in P/60 and the dude sucks.

You are right rookies who arent perfect stop developing and should be benched. Like it was the dudes rookie season. People are so quick to pull the plug on players instead of letting them develop.

A bench of Mini Mike Sullivan's here.

 

[Peat]

They talk Gibson towards the end too.

"there's two areas where he's consistently been around or slightly below average over the last five years, cross-slot chances and breakaways"

Mildly scary stuff for a Pens fan although Jarry and Desmith have virtually identical rush chances faced stats to Hellebuyck according to NST so allegedly wouldn't be coming to a worse environment there (I can't help but wonder about those).

I think the cross slot is the big one. Pens tendency to try and overload creates a lot of slot line plays. Jarry and DeSmith move quick. Scramble goalies. Might be wrong, but feels like the Pens either need to change how they play or get a guy who can do that.

Apparently Adin Hill is also bad at slot line chances if up high, but good at good at low slot chances. Swayman also bad at slot line chances (and deflections). Wish I had access to these stats to see what chances the Pens gave up

Worries over whether John Gibson would adjust to having a lesser workload. Good news! We can give him work, just less brutal.

I'd go as high as Pickering and Granlund for Gibson, and while it seems like trading Pickering is a lot, he's also adding value towards getting out of Granlund's deal. Plus Pickering probably only seems like a lot because the Penguins prospect pool is trash. Anything more than that wouldn't be an option in my eyes.

I'm not sure Pickering and 33rd is that much less valuable than 14OA (assuming it's a get a pick move like Gurgs suggested). Less valuable, yeah, that much, I don't know. Truth told, I don't really want to pay either, and would give a lesser ask - maybe with a big fat conditional pick if things go well - and buy out Granlund if needs be. But, if it happens, if it's on the table, if I'm looking for ways to justify 14OA being out there for a goalie...



re POJ at 2LD - Ultimately I think a big improvement at 2LD is going to help the forwards and goalie more than spending the money/assets on goalie and forwards will help the guy at 2LD. Nailed my colours to the mast there. If nothing makes sense there and its POJ or Soucy then screw it, sure, make the gamble on POJ and spend the money elsewhere, but I'd rather not.


edit: re the idea that it's fine for POJ to sit - Realistically, I think anyone who looks at POJ here and doesn't see a player they want to be playing in our system, should be screaming for us to trade him now while he has at least some mild value rather than stunting him and waiting for him to have none.

 

[Josey Wales]

It's a bad use of assets more than anything. POJ is more valuable as a trade chip to add a forward than to sit him in the press box.

how are you adding a forward for a guy you say is going to eat nachos?? one of these trade us a really good player for this shitty one?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure Pickering and 33rd is that much less valuable than 14OA (assuming it's a get a pick move like Gurgs suggested). Less valuable, yeah, that much, I don't know. Truth told, I don't really want to pay either, and would give a lesser ask - maybe with a big fat conditional pick if things go well - and buy out Granlund if needs be. But, if it happens, if it's on the table, if I'm looking for ways to justify 14OA being out there for a goalie...

I would much rather have the chance at getting a top prospect at #14 in a stacked draft over having 2 good prospects in Pickering plus who you'd get at #33.

re POJ at 2LD - Ultimately I think a big improvement at 2LD is going to help the forwards and goalie more than spending the money/assets on goalie and forwards will help the guy at 2LD. Nailed my colours to the mast there. If nothing makes sense there and its POJ or Soucy then screw it, sure, make the gamble on POJ and spend the money elsewhere, but I'd rather not.

I definitely can't agree with this. I sure as hell don't know that Gibson is this, but a great goalie will mask a lot of the problems on this team and I don't think POJ vs who else the Penguins could realistically get for their 2nd pair LD will realistically have that big of an impact.

I don't think a defense with Letang and Petry at the top should need another substantial addition to the defense, and if it does, I'm seriously questioning why they're spending that kind of money on Letang and Petry. I think you'd need to acquire someone substantial to even notice a significant enough impact over POJ, Soucy over POJ by me is more of a stylistic preference to me than anything.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I love how rate stats have somehow become shamed here.
Apparently offensive, defensive and goaltending output relative to minutes is meaningless in the context of usefulness and winning hockey games.
People just want good numbers from guys no matter how badly they're buried. 7 mins TOI with 80% D-zone starts? Who cares! Score more!
Also, if you get gifted a ton of minutes, play like shit but scrape by with points because of your role, you're somehow a better player that needs to be kept.

Logic has left the building. People just look up end of season point totals now and call it a day.
Decades of watching hockey and so little learned. It boggles my mind.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's a bad use of assets more than anything. POJ is more valuable as a trade chip to add a forward than to sit him in the press box.

POJ is an asset literally every team has. 3rd round pick value at best. That is nothing in the long run. Maybe you can get a 4th liner in a similar position Ala Drury in Carolina for him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

POJ is an asset literally every team has. 3rd round pick value at best. That is nothing in the long run. Maybe you can get a 4th liner in a similar position Ala Drury in Carolina for him.

And considering they desperately need forward depth, that seems like a much better use of assets than to just sit him in the press box.

Send him to Seattle for Geekie's rights. Geekie will actually play and fills a need for the team.

 

[Freeptop]

Why do so many people have a problem with a passing thought on a podcast being framed as a passing thought on a podcast? These media types don't need to speak to absolutes. They're allowed to speculate and frame it as speculation. The problem is when you have the Eklund/Rossi of the world that make s**t up and pretend that it's the gospel.

I have no issue with Marek and Friedman because they clearly state when they are hearing things from sources vs. when they have ideas of their own. Friedman gets that rep because he's misquoted constantly.

I don't generally have a problem with it when Friedman says things like, "I think", but my hackles start rising when journalists use the passive voice, because it's usually a way of being deceptive in reporting in general.

It's a way of implying that he's hearing it from reputable sources, without actually having to say where he got it from. "[P]eople are saying" - what people? Executives? Agents? Random hockey fans off the street?
Technically speaking, he could have sourced that from our own discussion around the 14th overall pick thread on these boards, and it would have been accurate to say "people are saying".

I'm not saying he has to give names, but a general category of "people" would have gone a long way to indicate whether that's even useful information to hear about. Given that he generally does do that makes me really give this the side-eye.

Friedman's generally solid, but I thought he really dropped the ball here.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

You are right rookies who arent perfect stop developing and should be benched. Like it was the dudes rookie season. People are so quick to pull the plug on players instead of letting them develop.

A bench of Mini Mike Sullivan's here.

What an idiotic post. Just a genuinely dipshit reply.

Let POJ and Smith battle it out in camp/pre-season and go with whoever earns it. Get a top-4 LD to pair with Letang or Petry, ideally with a physical presence.

Woah, what a radical plan. Totally crazy, genuinely nuts stuff! GFY

 

[SomeDude]

When you look at it in that context, he does make a ton of sense. He's been on some terribad teams.

You know what they say...If you're going to play behind soul numbingly bad defense, you might as well do it at home.

 

[Gurglesons]

And considering they desperately need forward depth, that seems like a much better use of assets than to just sit him in the press box.

Send him to Seattle for Geekie's rights. Geekie will actually play and fills a need for the team.

Seattle has absolutely no need for a LD.

That’s the issue. Also let’s not pretend we also don’t need defensive depth.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Seattle has absolutely no need for a LD.

That’s the issue.

Yes they do

Source: am a Kraken fan

They're likely losing Soucy in free agency and their LD depth is extremely thin after Oleksiak. The next guy up is Ryker Evans, who is probably not NHL ready yet and is likely a Schultz replacement for after next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes they do

Source: am a Kraken fan

You already proposed the deal and Kraken denied it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You already proposed the deal and Kraken denied it.

2 fans I asked said that they didn't think POJ fit what they needed. That doesn't mean they don't need LD.

I'm a Kraken fan, they need a LD. They need a more defensive guy than anything to complement Schultz, but they objectively need a LD. If they can't sign a UFA like Cole or Soucy to play with Schultz, trading a spare depth forward for someone like POJ is absolutely something they'd consider.

Long term, they need a Pesce type of RD to play with Oleksiak, since their 3rd pair will likely be Evans-Borgen when Evans is ready. But right now, they 100% need to replace Soucy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, how do the Penguins need defensive depth? They currently have Rutta, POJ, Smith, Ruhwedel and Friedman who are established and capable of playing in the NHL, plus they have a pretty strong veteran LD in WBS in Ouellet.

The only thing the Penguins need on defense is a good complement for Petry on the 2nd pair, and that's much more of a luxury wish than an actual need.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Also, how do the Penguins need defensive depth? They currently have Rutta, POJ, Smith, Ruhwedel and Friedman who are established and capable of playing in the NHL, plus they have a pretty strong veteran LD in WBS in Ouellet.

The only thing the Penguins need on defense is a good complement for Petry on the 2nd pair, and that's much more of a luxury wish than an actual need.

Unless you want Dumo back it would be really nice to find a #2 to play with Letang.......thats sarcasm

We need a #2 to play with Letang, I dont feel comfortable with Petts there, let him play with Petry.

POJ the 6 is fine with me

 

[Josey Wales]

Also, how do the Penguins need defensive depth? They currently have Rutta, POJ, Smith, Ruhwedel and Friedman who are established and capable of playing in the NHL, plus they have a pretty strong veteran LD in WBS in Ouellet.

The only thing the Penguins need on defense is a good complement for Petry on the 2nd pair, and that's much more of a luxury wish than an actual need.

DUHWedel & Freidman Blow Goats

 

[Empoleon8771]

Unless you want Dumo back it would be really nice to find a #2 to play with Letang.......thats sarcasm

We need a #2 to play with Letang, I dont feel comfortable with Petts there, let him play with Petry.

POJ the 6 is fine with me

That's a total luxury to acquire. You don't need a #2 to play with Letang. It would be nice to have, but there are actual issues on the roster that need to be addressed and a luxury like that isn't worth it.

DUHWedel & Freidman Blow Goats

I hope both play 82 games next year just to see you whine about it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Partner for Letang or Petry, I think a top-4 LD is pretty important to acquire. Between that addition and Petts, you should have some flexibility if you need to shake up the pairings or whatever. /shrug

Petts had a great season and took a step forward, but the team was pretty consistently at a loss for that other top-4 LD spot. Dumo was f***ing awful, and POJ was real up and down throughout the season.

Any time Ruhwedel or Friedman are in the lineup is a bad time, imo. They're both shit, and while I prefer Friedman being a little rat on the ice to Ruhwedel's, uhhhh, nothing--they're still guys you don't wanna see unless the blueline is absolutely decimated by injury.

It sucks that JR and Hextall just went completely bonkers over the course of the last half decade here. Really left the team in a rough spot for the final years of the Sid/Geno era.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Partner for Letang or Petry, I think a top-4 LD is pretty important to acquire. Between that addition and Petts, you should have some flexibility if you need to shake up the pairings or whatever. /shrug

Petts had a great season and took a step forward, but the team was pretty consistently at a loss for that other top-4 LD spot. Dumo was f***ing awful, and POJ was real up and down throughout the season.

Any time Ruhwedel or Friedman are in the lineup is a bad time, imo. They're both shit, and while I prefer Friedman being a little rat on the ice to Ruhwedel's, uhhhh, nothing--they're still guys you don't wanna see unless the blueline is absolutely decimated by injury.

It sucks that JR and Hextall just went completely bonkers over the course of the last half decade here. Really left the team in a rough spot for the final years of the Sid/Geno era.

The thing I don't understand here is how people can have such an opinionated view on Ruhwedel or Friedman. They both are what they are, they're depth players with boring results that don't do anything to really help or hurt the team.

Like what are they doing to be shitty? It's not like Carter, where you can visibly see how he sucks and have the results to back it up. With Ruhwedel and Friedman, they don't really impact the game positively or negatively when they're on the ice. They're not getting scored on 4 times a game, they're mostly just drawing even. That's all that can be reasonably expected out of depth players.

This doesn't even mean they're good, they're just too irrelevant towards the Penguins success or failure for me to even assign them as good or bad. They're there when injuries come up. What are they not doing that you expect them to be doing in their role?

 

[Gurglesons]

The thing I don't understand here is how people can have such an opinionated view on Ruhwedel or Friedman. They both are what they are, they're depth players with boring results that don't do anything to really help or hurt the team.

Like what are they doing to be shitty? It's not like Carter, where you can visibly see how he sucks and have the results to back it up. With Ruhwedel and Friedman, they don't really impact the game positively or negatively when they're on the ice. They're not getting scored on 4 times a game, they're mostly just drawing even. That's all that can be reasonably expected out of depth players.

This doesn't even mean they're good, they're just too irrelevant towards the Penguins success or failure for me to even assign them as good or bad. They're there when injuries come up. What are they not doing that you expect them to be doing in their role?

If we had a POJ caliber prospect instead of Chad and Friedman last season we make the playoffs.