Salary Cap: Pens Off Season Thread: Pre Free Agency Shenanigans!

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Now that Sullivan can finally have his meager voice heard and is no longer being held down by a lack of transparency and input... I assume this means he was a Granlund fan all along?

 

[DesertPenguin]

Guentzel - Crosby - Rakell
Zucker - Malkin - Rust
Smith - DOC - Granlund
VET - MIN - SCRUB
Carter

Could work I guess. But we aren't getting anyone new on D so buckle up there and wait for the TDL.

Edit: I know he's not the ideal goaltender, but I am once again going to fantasize about Carter going back the other way in a Gibson trade. Let him go home. That 3.5M is so so important to filling out the roster.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I'm just going to try to keep telling myself this, yeah. Stranger things have happened. After all the pissing and moaning it would be a very Penguins thing to happen.

Yeah we’re such big know-it-all whiners that the hockey gods love to prove us wrong, even if it means we profit

 

[ChaosAgent]

POJ to Boston for Ullmark
Pickering and a 2024 1st to Calgary for Hanifin
Petry with $1.5 million retained to San Jose for nothing
Sign Schenn for 3 years at $2.5 million in UFA
Re-sign Poehling (2 years at $1 million), O'Connor (2 years at $900k) and Smith (2 years at $900k)

Guentzel-Crosby-Rakell
Smith-Malkin-Rust
XXXXX-XXXXX-Granlund
O'Connor-Poehling-Carter
XXXXXX-Nylander

Hanifin-Letang
Pettersson-Rutta
Smith-Schenn
Ruhwedel

Ullmark-DeSmith

If you have a league minimum player as your extra, you have $4.7 million to get 2 3rd liners to play with Granlund. This isn't me saying I want this, this is just the best I can think of without trading Granlund. It sucks.

The best you can hope for with that defense is that you use Pettersson-Rutta and Smith-Schenn like they used Maatta-Daley and Cole-Schultz in the past, meaning a 2A and a 2B pair, while Hanifin-Letang just plays a ton of minutes. I think it could work but it's so risky to attempt it.

Why are you retaining on Petry for 2 years but totally unwilling to buy out Granlund?

This whole thing is illogical.

 

[Rakell67]

If Granny needs to be on a scoring line, Rakell to the 3rd since Sully won't demote Rust...

Guentzel Crosby Rust
Smith Malkin Granlund
O'Connor O'Reilly Rakell
Poehling Carter Hathaway
Nylander

 

[Empoleon8771]

I guess I'm glutton for punishment, but how would people feel about that defense I posted on the last page? It's effectively swapping Dumoulin, Petry and POJ out for Hanifin, Schenn and Smith in. Your D pairs would be:

Hanifin-Letang
Pettersson-Rutta
Smith-Schenn

I'd imagine Sullivan would be riding that top pair into the ground with huge minutes and he'd be using the 2nd and 3rd pairs in similar usage to what he used the Maatta-Daley and Cole-Schultz pairs (both getting about 18-19 minutes a night). I think Sullivan would do this because he was using Smith in big minutes last year, so I don't think he'd be uncomfortable with using both of those pairs more aggressively.

Even if you retain $1.5 million on Petry to trade him, this defense would still likely be about $1.5 million cheaper than the defense from last year and I wouldn't call it worse than what they had last year.

Why are you retaining on Petry for 2 years but totally unwilling to buy out Granlund?

This whole thing is illogical.

Because they officially can't buy out Granlund because they didn't put him on waivers today.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I guess I'm glutton for punishment, but how would people feel about that defense I posted on the last page? It's effectively swapping Dumoulin, Petry and POJ out for Hanifin, Schenn and Smith in. Your D pairs would be:

Hanifin-Letang
Pettersson-Rutta
Smith-Schenn

I'd imagine Sullivan would be riding that top pair into the ground with huge minutes and he'd be using the 2nd and 3rd pairs in similar usage to what he used the Maatta-Daley and Cole-Schultz pairs. Even if you retain $1.5 million on Petry to trade him, this defense would still likely be about $1.5 million cheaper than the defense from last year. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd say it's worse.

Having a truly dynamic top pairing as opposed to Letang/Whoever Isn't Shitting Themselves This Week would at least be nice.

 

[Peat]

I guess I'm glutton for punishment, but how would people feel about that defense I posted on the last page? It's effectively swapping Dumoulin, Petry and POJ out for Hanifin, Schenn and Smith in. Your D pairs would be:

Hanifin-Letang
Pettersson-Rutta
Smith-Schenn

I'd imagine Sullivan would be riding that top pair into the ground with huge minutes and he'd be using the 2nd and 3rd pairs in similar usage to what he used the Maatta-Daley and Cole-Schultz pairs. Even if you retain $1.5 million on Petry to trade him, this defense would still likely be about $1.5 million cheaper than the defense from last year. Frankly, I'm not sure I'd say it's worse.

Very emphatically not a fan. They're at best just as fast and adept at moving the puck (i.e. not good enough) and I don't think think they're big enough or good enough defensively to change styles.

 

[Ginormousthumbs]

I hope they don’t get rid of POJ

 

[Darren McCord]

I guess I'm glutton for punishment, but how would people feel about that defense I posted on the last page? It's effectively swapping Dumoulin, Petry and POJ out for Hanifin, Schenn and Smith in. Your D pairs would be:

Hanifin-Letang
Pettersson-Rutta
Smith-Schenn

I'd imagine Sullivan would be riding that top pair into the ground with huge minutes and he'd be using the 2nd and 3rd pairs in similar usage to what he used the Maatta-Daley and Cole-Schultz pairs (both getting about 18-19 minutes a night). I think Sullivan would do this because he was using Smith in big minutes last year, so I don't think he'd be uncomfortable with using both of those pairs more aggressively.

Even if you retain $1.5 million on Petry to trade him, this defense would still likely be about $1.5 million cheaper than the defense from last year and I wouldn't call it worse than what they had last year.



Because they officially can't buy out Granlund because they didn't put him on waivers today.

You need to start making moves now though because you have 24 hrs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Very emphatically not a fan. They're at best just as fast and adept at moving the puck (i.e. not good enough) and I don't think think they're big enough or good enough defensively to change styles.

I'm not sure I agree with the moving the puck part. I think Hanifin should be a sizable improvement on what Petry was last year in terms of transition game and puck moving. Schenn isn't a good puck mover, but I think you could find an alternative that fits with Smith. That player would effectively be replacing Dumoulin, after all.

The other option is to try to find a better partner for Pettersson and keep Rutta on the 3rd pair with Smith. Could Dumba address your concerns with puck moving on defense?

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Because they officially can't buy out Granlund because they didn't put him on waivers today.

Sadly you are correct:

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sadly you are correct:

Yeah Taylor said the same thing:

 

[molon labe]

Love the buyouts. None of this sitting around - what ifs - trade deadlines? etc etc. They are sick of the locker room, don't want it impacting a single game going forward - send it.

That being said I hope we can find a place for Granlund without buying out the contract.

With regard to the Hawks - I get it. Anyone with a kid or even a pet they love could understand incentivizing or sweetening a deal to bring in a sitter or someone with some serious knowledge [of the league in this case, school etc otherwise]. Perry sort of does both. Plenty of teams would have offered league minimum. Chicago said here's 4M, feel good - do good. I'm sure he'll be plenty motivated to act to the teams' desire with 4M instead of thinking about retiring making what he COULD have made just anywhere else.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What's truly weird to me is seeing Duchene going from a literal career year (by a decent margin at that) to bought out within two seasons.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah Taylor said the same thing:

Can they trade for someone with arbitration

 

[Peat]

Granlund stinks but you're not in the worst position as a team if he's your worst contract. The thing that sucks is that they still have Carter.

If they didn't have Carter, you could create a passable defense (like the one I posted above with Petry gone and Hanifin and Schenn in) while still having enough money to add some good 3rd line options in UFA.

All I want for Christmas next season is a team with an identity that makes them hard to play against.

No more awkward fits. No more regularly getting rocked. No more nights where you know after ten minutes you might as well go clean the bathroom. A team where you feel like they've got the ability to at least be a tough out in the playoffs.

Dubas and Sully have said lets go faster. So let's assume that's the identity.

Granlund, independent of contract, is just a very dubious fit for that. He can move the puck quickly (sometimes) and that's about it.

And the contract makes it so difficult to build around him.

I guess wait and see but Dubas treating him like a guy who can be on the team rather than a guy who just can't be dressing makes me very dubious about what we're going to get. I can see the path to it working but Dubas is going to have to be the smartest guy in the room to make it work with those assets.

To me this feels like bringing back Kapanen, only more expensive and with a player with far less upside.

 

[Zbynek]

What's truly weird to me is seeing Duchene going from a literal career year (by a decent margin at that) to bought out within two seasons.

He wasnt even bad this past year either. Just overpaid by a few million is all

 

[Empoleon8771]

For those of you who watch the Wild more than I do, how is Matt Dumba in terms of physicality? He's not a big player at all, he's only 6'0" and 180 lbs, but he has historically been a very physical player in terms of hits from what I can see. Is he a gritty player despite his size or is his physical presence overstated by his hits total?

Dumba is only 29, so Petry out and Dumba on a cheaper short term deal (maybe like $3.5 million a year?) would save them a good chunk of money and let them get younger. I'm just not sure how I like him as a fit with Pettersson on the 2nd pair.

If you could pull off Hanifin, trade Petry out and bring in Dumba, your defense gets way younger and faster. I'm just not sure how I feel about Pettersson-Dumba as a pair.

 

[molon labe]

What's truly weird to me is seeing Duchene going from a literal career year (by a decent margin at that) to bought out within two seasons.

Second team that's just dumped him. I don't find it weird at this point.

Could be any number of personality, compete level, etc. Maybe he's one of those guys (of which the Pens have seemingly had too many recently) that only appear interested in a paycheck/per diem. But I'd have some serious questions as a buyer of a few of these buyout candidates.

 

[Zbynek]

I hope they don’t get rid of POJ

I have a 2 player shortlist of players I would be ok with trading him for, and they are both Vezina winning goalies.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I really want to see the team shoehorn Granlund into the most ludicrous situations possible just to pump his numbers. Even if he's bonering up everything in between. Just to watch some people be like "HA! I told you he wasn't so bad!"

"Why would they trade a guy producing at a 40pt pace? He's perfectly fine!"

 

[Peat]

I'm not sure I agree with the moving the puck part. I think Hanifin should be a sizable improvement on what Petry was last year in terms of transition game and puck moving. Schenn isn't a good puck mover, but I think you could find an alternative that fits with Smith. That player would effectively be replacing Dumoulin, after all.

The other option is to try to find a better partner for Pettersson and keep Rutta on the 3rd pair with Smith. Could Dumba address your concerns with puck moving on defense?

I think so, yeah. Think Dumba comes with his own warts, but at least the team is good at something.

Yeah Taylor said the same thing:

Both DOC and Poehling are eligible. There is zero reason to think they need arbitration to work out contracts with those guys, but it'd be really funny to me if the team deliberately sits there and does nothing to get one of them on an arbitration contact so they can buy guys out after all. Feels like Vegas would do that.

 

[Ryder71]

Duchene going back to Colorado would be dope tbh Idk about their cap situation tho

They are in cap hell I believe.

 

[Gurglesons]

All I want for Christmas next season is a team with an identity that makes them hard to play against.

No more awkward fits. No more regularly getting rocked. No more nights where you know after ten minutes you might as well go clean the bathroom. A team where you feel like they've got the ability to at least be a tough out in the playoffs.

Dubas and Sully have said lets go faster. So let's assume that's the identity.

Granlund, independent of contract, is just a very dubious fit for that. He can move the puck quickly (sometimes) and that's about it.

And the contract makes it so difficult to build around him.

I guess wait and see but Dubas treating him like a guy who can be on the team rather than a guy who just can't be dressing makes me very dubious about what we're going to get. I can see the path to it working but Dubas is going to have to be the smartest guy in the room to make it work with those assets.

To me this feels like bringing back Kapanen, only more expensive and with a player with far less upside.

Hey man. Don't worry. Mike Sullivan has an identity in his mind.

“The common denominator is those (core) guys. We’re trying to create a certain identity and philosophy of play that sets us up for success. We’re trying to find players, complementary players, that we think can play that game,” Sullivan concluded.

It's based around 35+ year olds.