Post-Game Talk: Pens/Isles Game 1: Home Ice + Good Matchup all for nothing

[Sidney the Kidney]

Ah you one of those with stereotyped thinking.

Here's the real reason: I need this board as an outlet for my anger, disappointment and frustration. When they win - I'm just quietly happy on my own, I don't have an incentive to come here and post anything.

Now with that issue behind us, do you have any legit objections against what I said in my posts? Or did you want to post an answer that is 100% personal attack on another poster, and noting more?

The thing is you don't actually present anything to "object" to. Your posts are insult-laced sentence after insult-laced sentence about how terrible our core guys are and how much they're horrible leaders/lack character.

Exactly what kind of actual discussion would you like to have when that's your entire schtick?

There's being frustrated with recent performance, and then there's over the top hysterics about how horrible our leaders are.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Listen Dan is doing the best he can, here. You can't expect him to fix persistent problems in just three seasons, man.

That sounds like a lot of work.

Right, because 'persistent problems' were definitely the reason they lost today. Not a goalie letting in four stoppable goals you'd expect a save on 99% of the time.

 

[madinsomniac]

I am a big proponent of the Sully is past due crew and I don’t really think he was the issue here other than they seemed out of sorts in general.... as they always do after any sort of layoff.... they blew there wad early and couldn’t finish down the stretch....


Yeah Jarry blew on those four shots, but he saved a bunch more and the isle outright missed a bunch more that we served up to them on a platter... we turned things over in our end a bunch, and many were unforced dumbass things.... like i said

Pens+ layoff or Pens+ backup goalie both are bad news alone... combine them and it was superdoom

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Right, because 'persistent problems' were definitely the reason they lost today. Not a goalie letting in four stoppable goals you'd expect a save on 99% of the time.

I've already discussed the goaltending. It was very poor.

More than one thing can be poor.

But I mean did D... Mike Sullivan lose this game? Hell no.

It's just a season too late is all. Oh well.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

My issue is less about expecting the Pens to win the Cup every year and being disappointed they didn't, and more with the Pens having a relatively successful regular season only to be swept or lose in a whimper in the playoffs.

No, we can't expect them to win it all every year. But surely we should expect them to win a series here or there, especially when we're the higher seed and, on paper, should have more talent than the team we lose to?

Well they won 9 series and lost 3 in the Sullivan era. That's a better ratio than every team in that time period I believe.

I agree we're underperforming last few years but I also think it's ok to let up for a few years if you got the job done back to back.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I've already discussed the goaltending. It was very poor.

More than one thing can be poor.

So what else was poor that's a persistent problem that we can tie back to the last three years?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

If we're swept, or even lose in the 1st round, Sully shouldn't be the only big change made. You gotta really question whether this team has what it takes anymore.

They already replaced the front office. And I like Hextall.

Would you change him right after hiring him? And why? What could he have possible done differently in the few weeks that he was here?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So what else was poor that's a persistent problem that we can tie back to the last three years?

Team preparedness, line combinations, TOI distribution, favored players, a seemingly decent number of players not fitting in this system that do elsewhere, sticking with what doesn't work too long, a very inconsistent powerplay despite the talent, a general team-wide malaise you can practically FEEL through the TV. If it were a handful of guys whatever. But it isn't.

Mike Sullivan is a fine hockey mind and I admit I pick a bit because I hate how overcoached and dull this league is. But he is past his shelf life, here.

 

[LOGiK]

Well they won 9 series and lost 3 in the Sullivan era. That's a better ratio than every team in that time period I believe.

I agree we're underperforming last few years but I also think it's ok to let up for a few years if you got the job done back to back.

The thing about that 9 series wins to 3 approach is you have to look at when those 9 were won...

After you peel that egg the you find out the yoke is rotten... or something.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

I am a big proponent of the Sully is past due crew and I don’t really think he was the issue here other than they seemed out of sorts in general.... as they always do after any sort of layoff.... they blew there wad early and couldn’t finish down the stretch....


Yeah Jarry blew on those four shots, but he saved a bunch more and the isle outright missed a bunch more that we served up to them on a platter... we turned things over in our end a bunch, and many were unforced dumbass things.... like i said

Pens+ layoff or Pens+ backup goalie both are bad news alone... combine them and it was superdoom

I’ve remained very neutral in terms of Sully. He’s a very capable coach that will be coaching in the league for years and years to come. And I genuinely just like Sully. But... that being said if we do have another 1st round exit. It’s time for a HC change and I believe current management will clear house of the coaching staff if that happens.

Putting on the other shoe, it is only game one and we have the rest of the series left. But regardless of how I, you, or others feel about Sully. His job here in Pittsburgh I feel very much hinges on this series.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well they won 9 series and lost 3 in the Sullivan era. That's a better ratio than every team in that time period I believe.

I agree we're underperforming last few years but I also think it's ok to let up for a few years if you got the job done back to back.

That's a bit misleading. 8 of those 9 series wins were during the back to back Cup wins over 2 playoffs. If we lose this series, that will be 1 series wins in 4 playoffs.

No one is saying take credit away from Sullivan for those back to backs, but since then he's 1-3 in the series his team has been in, and two of those losses were really poor efforts. And if we lose this one, he'll be 1-4 in series since then.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I’ve remained very neutral in terms of Sully. He’s a very capable coach that will be coaching in the league for years and years to come. And I genuinely just like Sully. But... that being said if we do have another 1st round exit. It’s time for a HC change and I believe current management will clear house of the coaching staff if that happens.

Putting on the other shoe, it is only game one and we have the rest of the series left. But regardless of how I, you, or others feel about Sully. His job here in Pittsburgh I feel very much hinges on this series.

I think this is the best take on this, yes.

All can be forgiven. I'm more than willing to eat a plate of bird. But he's got his work cut out for him and I am really curious as to how people don't find this whole scenario MUCH more familiar considering what we've seen in years past.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Team preparedness, line combinations, TOI distribution, favored players, a seemingly decent number of players not fitting in this system that do elsewhere, sticking with what doesn't work too long, a very inconsistent powerplay despite the talent, a general team-wide malaise you can practically FEEL through the TV. If it were a handful of guys whatever. But it isn't.

Mike Sullivan is a fine hockey mind and I admit I pick a bit because I hate how overcoached and dull this league is. But he is past his shelf life, here.

You saw all that today? Sorry man but I'm calling bullshit.

I'm as much on the Sullivan is stubborn, fire him if we flame out train as anyone. But an NHL goalie let in four ridiculous goals and instead of recognizing the obvious issue, people are reaching for all-encompassing explanations tying this game to the last three years despite drastic personnel changes on and off the ice. At some point people need to step back from the ledge and see clearly. The goalie sucked, and the goalie needs to be better. Everything, and I mean everything, else pales by comparison when you can't trust your goalie to make a simple save. Maybe we could let those issues you describe actually manifest before we toss this team in the trash with the other ones.

 

[Andy99]

I am a big proponent of the Sully is past due crew and I don’t really think he was the issue here other than they seemed out of sorts in general.... as they always do after any sort of layoff.... they blew there wad early and couldn’t finish down the stretch....


Yeah Jarry blew on those four shots, but he saved a bunch more and the isle outright missed a bunch more that we served up to them on a platter... we turned things over in our end a bunch, and many were unforced dumbass things.... like i said

Pens+ layoff or Pens+ backup goalie both are bad news alone... combine them and it was superdoom

Blowing their wad early IS a coaching problem...no excuse for L1 to play 25+ minutes and Gaudreau 12 minutes....

 

[Ugene Magic]

Not quite there, yet.

They lose game 2... and all hell's gonna break loose.

Who needs bridges... Right?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

9 series in a row how many years ago?

Since then how many?

Last 3yrs, 1 series win. Like I said, Joel Quenneville won 3 cups in 6yrs and got a shorter leash and he's a legit bona fide hockey Hall of fame coach. Yet here we are, a tiny window and they're scared of firing a coach that isn't getting it done anymore hanging on to what happened 4yrs ago.

Is the real problem Sully though? Jarry not stopping at least one of the first three goals is not on him.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's a bit misleading. 8 of those 9 series wins were during the back to back Cup wins over 2 playoffs. If we lose this series, that will be 1 series wins in 4 playoffs.

No one is saying take credit away from Sullivan for those back to backs, but since then he's 1-3 in the series his team has been in, and two of those losses were really poor efforts. And if we lose this one, he'll be 1-4 in series since then.

This season was solid work. But I really question how much Sullivan really did ..

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They already replaced the front office. And I like Hextall.

Would you change him right after hiring him? And why? What could he have possible done differently in the few weeks that he was here?

I'm talking about players.

Jake and Rust have been huge disappointments since the back to backs.

You're going to have to sit down sooner or later and have a difficult conversation with Geno and Letang about their future as they're ~35 years old and have next season before they're up for new, likely expensive contracts. In Letang's case, he's played at a Norris level, and is probably the team MVP for the RS, but the wheels will fall off before long and once his skating goes, it's gonna be ugly. If the team flops again this playoff, which is still way up in the air since it was only one OT game, you can probably move Letang for a big haul after the season he's had considering he's only got one year left on his deal so the receiving team isn't making a long-term commitment.

Geno's good for 20 or so games missed a season, is going to be 36 when his next deal is signed, and has a nice shiny new bum knee that'll probably need to be surgically repaired this summer. That's not gonna get better as age and inevitable injury continue to pile up. Assuming the Caps hand Ovechkin a blank check like Leonsis alluded to a couple days ago, the precedent for Malkin's next deal will be ugly and probably doesn't see us saving a bunch over what he currently makes.

Obviously the latter two are long shots, but Rust's gonna walk next summer regardless because he'll need a raise when too many guys need new deals. Jake's thrown together some really nice regular seasons recently, but again, hasn't really done much of anything in the past several trips to the playoffs. That's not even touching on problem players or redundant guys on bloated contracts like Zucker and Petts respectively.

-edit- I like Hextall too. But anyone who has followed his career as a FO guy knows exactly why the Penguins landed him. He's not here to load up year after year and spend without caution in an attempt to chase the Cup. He's here because the team knows the gas tank is all but empty and the rough period following the Cup window is rapidly approaching, and Hextall's great at retooling and rebuilding.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

You saw all that today? Sorry man but I'm calling bullshit.

I'm as much on the Sullivan is stubborn, fire him if we flame out train as anyone. But an NHL goalie let in four ridiculous goals and instead of recognizing the obvious issue, people are reaching for all-encompassing explanations tying this game to the last three years despite drastic personnel changes on and off the ice. At some point people need to step back from the ledge and see clearly. The goalie sucked, and the goalie needs to be better. Everything, and I mean everything, else pales by comparison when you can't trust your goalie to make a simple save. Maybe we could let those issues you describe actually manifest before we toss this team in the trash with the other ones.

I edited my original post re: this. I don't think Sullivan lost this particular game, no. The team started to sure resemble the past couple of teams that have bowed out in hideous fashion as the game wore on though and that's enough to raise red flags for me.

You know... just a thought... you like to take a lot of people to task I notice for being toxic or whatever. Maybe it's all just getting to you but you aren't coming off much different...

 

[Ugene Magic]

This season was solid work. But I really question how much Sullivan really did ..

A good bit of it was players playing for contracts.

 

[TimmyD]

The thing is you don't actually present anything to "object" to. Your posts are insult-laced sentence after insult-laced sentence about how terrible our core guys are and how much they're horrible leaders/lack character.

Exactly what kind of actual discussion would you like to have when that's your entire schtick?

There's being frustrated with recent performance, and then there's over the top hysterics about how horrible our leaders are.

Hey now, no personal attacks on the troll

 

[Andy99]

This game would have been different and we likely win if Jarry had stopped those first two goals, as any competent NHL goalie should have....

That being said, once the game was tied, the team played scared, deflated and lacked confidence and heart...if distrust of your goalie causes everyone’s mindset to go from confident and aggressive to tentative, how is that not on the coach? If people were so tired playing Sullivan’s system that by the third period and OT they looked like shit, how is that not on the coach?

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I edited my original post re: this. I don't think Sullivan lost this particular game, no. The team started to sure resemble the past couple of teams that have bowed out in hideous fashion as the game wore on though and that's enough to raise red flags for me.

You know... just a thought... you like to take a lot of people to task I notice for being toxic or whatever. Maybe it's all just getting to you but you aren't coming off much different...

Not sure you've had a single positive post on this, the game thread, or the series thread. It's all pessimism, all the time. I guess that's ok but I don't think I'm out of line to push back against the negativity. I remember when the board had a much easier sense of humor but was a lurker then and must have missed the rest.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This season was solid work. But I really question how much Sullivan really did ..

The one thing that concerns me with Sullivan is how easily this team loses its structure over the course of a game. Even when we play well, it's usually 40-50 minutes of well structured hockey followed by a lousy 10-15 stretch where we run around.

Today was no different. I blame Jarry for most of that after the 2-2 Pageau goal because the team seemed to really be on their heels and gripping their sticks when he's letting in soft goals every time they tie it or go ahead. But at the same time, some of the structure issues showed up in the 3rd and OT tonight, regardless of Jarry's performance.

Maybe that's not on Sullivan. Maybe it's the collection of players. But we won't know for sure if they just keep Sullivan around flame out after flame out. All we can go on is that this team still struggles to play 60 minutes and that's been present pretty much for the past 4 seasons under Sullivan.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

That's a bit misleading. 8 of those 9 series wins were during the back to back Cup wins over 2 playoffs. If we lose this series, that will be 1 series wins in 4 playoffs.

No one is saying take credit away from Sullivan for those back to backs, but since then he's 1-3 in the series his team has been in, and two of those losses were really poor efforts. And if we lose this one, he'll be 1-4 in series since then.

No it's not misleading. They just did their damage early, which is totally fine if you end up winning 2 Cups.

I mean sure, try a new coach next year and roll the dice I guess.

That new coach could end up being worse though and could break our playoff streak, being unable to overcome the slough of injuries we always deal with. Replacements always seem better when it's a fresh guy coming in, until reality sets in. Then you pine for what you had.

Wasn't Sutter supposed to save the Flames? How'd that work out?