GDT: Pens @ Devils - The Grinch! - 7:00 PM - MSG+

[guitarguyvic]

This doesn't sound right to me - Jack Hughes got injured Game 2 and they won Game 1. Hughes doesn't look at all like last year's Jack Hughes who was forcing turnovers all over the ice and pressing the play into the opposition's end. Whether that's injury or something else, I can't say for sure, but it sure would stand to reason that the injury and extended absence would have something to do with it.



If only I could just speak in generalities and not drill down into anything like you. Nah, Devils on their 6th goalie of the year, Geertsen playing D 3 games in a row because they can't make a callup from Utica because of COVID - all totally normal stuff that happens every year. Good teams just play through this stuff that definitely happens all the time.

These are all circumstances that literally just started within the last few games, and you are using it to obfuscate that this team has been bad for going on 20 consecutive games now. I even called it that some posters and the org would do this after the first covid holdouts and Blackwood got injured. That it would be used as an excuse and we’d be asked to conveniently forget that it all went to shit well beforehand. This is exactly how it plays out every year.

You seem incredibly invested in portraying this team as better than their record indicates every season. Why is that?

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Name the last team to fire an assistant coach midseason without firing anyone else. This is what serious franchises do, and the league is filled with serious franchises, so you must know.

Who gives a f*** if it’s not the norm? They’ve lost multiple games because of his unit alone this year, so yes they’re an unserious franchise for keeping him on longer than he should be. He was awful last year as well when they finished 27th and that was with a good Ty Smith. Went from wanting to playing competitive games in March and April to eliminated at Christmas lmfao.

 

[Triumph]

These are all circumstances that literally just started within the last few games, and you are using it to obfuscate that this team has been bad for going on 20 consecutive games now. I even called it that some posters and the org would do this after the first covid holdouts and Blackwood got injured. That it would be used as an excuse and we’d be asked to conveniently forget that it all went to shit well beforehand. This is exactly how it plays out every year.

They're not, I mentioned Jack Hughes, the forward who got the most ice time last year. He played more than anybody else and was the Devils' best forward last year at age 19. Now, this year, he injures his shoulder in Game 2, comes back, and is bad. Hmmm, did something change? Nah, not for you, you just plowed right through what I said to pat yourself on the back for calling it.

The thing that actually lines up with the Devils being shitty was Ty Smith coming back, who was absolutely dreadful in his first 15 games back. Again, another injured player who mysteriously returns as way worse than last year. Can't be the injury though - that's an excuse! It has to be that he's not any good at all, or something. Now Ty Smuth might not be good, and may never recover the level of play he had at age 20. There are a few players for whom that's been the case. Most of them, that's not how their career goes! They improve from their very early 20s and peak around age 23 or 24 or sometimes even later. And indeed, I think Ty Smith has looked generally better in the last 5 games. But given the Devils' whack-a-mole season, that can't do anything for the goaltending.

Oh, and Dougie Hamilton looked great his first games here, comes back from an injury, and looks worse. Gotta be an excuse though. Ryan Graves, same thing.

Injuries are bound to happen, it's hockey, people get hurt. But not everyone all at once all the time.

You seem incredibly invested in portraying this team as better than their record indicates every season. Why is that?

Because everyone on this board who isn't Bleedred underestimates how shitty the goaltending is and how much the Devils have had to push uphill as a result of it.

 

[Triumph]

Who gives a f*** if it’s not the norm? They’ve lost multiple games because of his unit alone this year, so yes they’re an unserious franchise for keeping him on longer than he should be. He was awful last year as well when they finished 27th and that was with a good Ty Smith. Went from wanting to playing competitive games in March and April to eliminated at Christmas lmfao.

It's not the norm because almost everyone in hockey who would be an NHL assistant isn't just sitting around waiting for a job, they're already working somewhere, so it's very difficult to find a replacement. This is not true of head coaches, who generally pass on taking other jobs in the hope of being hired back into the league. Recchi sucks, sure, fire him with everyone else sure, but why are you so convinced there's an improvement available right now?

 

[McDuffz88]

You skated right over the point, which is that NOT every team is dealing with the same thing - a lot of teams have been helped out by being shut down. The Devils, despite having several players with COVID-19 and some other illness as well, have not been. They're on their 6th goalie so far this year. But you're right, these are excuses.

The Devils should be a lot better than they've shown so far. They should not, given what's gone on so far this year health-wise, be good.

Im not viewing it from the point of the last few covid games where we did have disadvantages. Since the beginning of this season our PP was horrendous & actually got worse & worse as the season continued. Despite adding players like Hamilton the PP has tanked into despair to the point its no longer an advantage but a disadvantage. It is indicated on the coaching staff. Even if we had a 100% healthy roster if your special teams are as badly coached as we are, your guaranteed to be in the bottom of the league. We also have made a series of horrible decisions which strayed us away from being good. We broke up the hottest line we had in years aka the Mercer line but we dismantled them because "Hughes/Nico" despite Mercer looking more offensively talented then both. I wish we didn't run our team based on name or draft status & instead rewarded linespots/contracts based upon play rather then a bunch of what ifs.

 

[guitarguyvic]

They're not, I mentioned Jack Hughes, the forward who got the most ice time last year. He played more than anybody else and was the Devils' best forward last year at age 19. Now, this year, he injures his shoulder in Game 2, comes back, and is bad. Hmmm, did something change? Nah, not for you, you just plowed right through what I said to pat yourself on the back for calling it.

The thing that actually lines up with the Devils being shitty was Ty Smith coming back, who was absolutely dreadful in his first 15 games back. Again, another injured player who mysteriously returns as way worse than last year. Can't be the injury though - that's an excuse! It has to be that he's not any good at all, or something. Now Ty Smuth might not be good, and may never recover the level of play he had at age 20. There are a few players for whom that's been the case. Most of them, that's not how their career goes! They improve from their very early 20s and peak around age 23 or 24 or sometimes even later. And indeed, I think Ty Smith has looked generally better in the last 5 games. But given the Devils' whack-a-mole season, that can't do anything for the goaltending.

Oh, and Dougie Hamilton looked great his first games here, comes back from an injury, and looks worse. Gotta be an excuse though. Ryan Graves, same thing.

Injuries are bound to happen, it's hockey, people get hurt. But not everyone all at once all the time.



Because everyone on this board who isn't Bleedred underestimates how shitty the goaltending is and how much the Devils have had to push uphill as a result of it.

This is just filled with stuff that is more fantasy than reality. Jack Hughes did not impress me any more significantly last year than this year. I have also never said he (or even Ty Smith for that matter) are “not any good at all”…that’s BS. That’s you straw manning criticism of them not living up to the hype of their draft status and this board’s prognostications.

It’s also flat out untrue that all those players were injured all at the same time. You’re also grossly exaggerating the severity and making incredibly convenient assumptions. Hamilton was out for like two games but here you are proclaiming that he suffered something serious enough to make him look bad like 10 games later. And then you’re going to tell me you’re not invested in making excuses for this team? Ironically enough Hamilton’s performance is like at the bottom of the list for why this team stinks so I don’t even know why you’re bringing him up other than to bolster the excuse making.

Saying other teams don’t have this many injuries is straight up laughable. The penguins were without two generational talents to start the season and treaded water just fine. And they are still without one of them. They’re able to tread water because they have better players, better coaching, and are a better run org currently.

And yeah the goaltending has started to suck again but the idea that this team doesn’t suck in other areas is pure denial.

Your invested in portraying this team as better than they are because your invested in being right about previous prognostications. There’s no other explanation for it.

 

[MadDevil]

This is just filled with stuff that is more fantasy than reality. Jack Hughes did not impress me any more significantly last year than this year. I have also never said he (or even Ty Smith for that matter) are “not any good at all”…that’s BS. That’s you straw manning criticism of them not living up to the hype of their draft status and this board’s prognostications.

It’s also flat out untrue that all those players were injured all at the same time. You’re also grossly exaggerating the severity and making incredibly convenient assumptions. Hamilton was out for like two games but here you are proclaiming that he suffered something serious enough to make him look bad like 10 games later. And then you’re going to tell me you’re not invested in making excuses for this team? Ironically enough Hamilton’s performance is like at the bottom of the list for why this team stinks so I don’t even know why you’re bringing him up other than to bolster the excuse making.

Saying other teams don’t have this many injuries is straight up laughable. The penguins were without two generational talents to start the season and treaded water just fine. And they are still without one of them. They’re able to tread water because they have better players, better coaching, and are a better run org currently.

And yeah the goaltending has started to suck again but the idea that this team doesn’t suck in other areas is pure denial.

Your invested in portraying this team as better than they are because your invested in being right about previous prognostications. There’s no other explanation for it.

This statement is thick with irony.

 

[Edmonton East]

This is just filled with stuff that is more fantasy than reality. Jack Hughes did not impress me any more significantly last year than this year. I have also never said he (or even Ty Smith for that matter) are “not any good at all”…that’s BS. That’s you straw manning criticism of them not living up to the hype of their draft status and this board’s prognostications.

It’s also flat out untrue that all those players were injured all at the same time. You’re also grossly exaggerating the severity and making incredibly convenient assumptions. Hamilton was out for like two games but here you are proclaiming that he suffered something serious enough to make him look bad like 10 games later. And then you’re going to tell me you’re not invested in making excuses for this team? Ironically enough Hamilton’s performance is like at the bottom of the list for why this team stinks so I don’t even know why you’re bringing him up other than to bolster the excuse making.

Saying other teams don’t have this many injuries is straight up laughable. The penguins were without two generational talents to start the season and treaded water just fine. And they are still without one of them. They’re able to tread water because they have better players, better coaching, and are a better run org currently.

And yeah the goaltending has started to suck again but the idea that this team doesn’t suck in other areas is pure denial.

Your invested in portraying this team as better than they are because your invested in being right about previous prognostications. There’s no other explanation for it.

idk why you are wasting your time. It's the same handful of posters on here that make the same ridiculous strawman arguments over and over and over again. They never admit they are wrong about anything, regardless of how blatantly obvious it is. And when they can't argue against logical folks, they shift the goal posts and pretend you said something you never did.

It's a mix of boring and sad, much like the Devils' organization.

 

[The Joker]

Handing out 8x8 for a player who is not even close to worth it just because you are afraid he leaves when he becomes UFA is f***ing loser mentality.

Hughes needs to wake the f*** up and start developing into the player he already gets paid for or else his contract is a fireable offense from Fitz.

What has this organization come to?

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Majority of this board wanted all kids on this roster. Also didn’t want anyone brought in to score (tarasenko). A lot of people though sharagovich was going to be even better. He is brutal I was behind the goal when he came in on that mini breakaway in the second the shot missed the bet by 3 feet. Get legit scoring talent on this team get some veteran leadership. Take the c from nico he does not deserve it. No one gets a c until this team makes the playoffs

Please tell me in your infinite wisdom how stripping Nico of the "C" would turn the fortunes of the team around?

 

[WetWholphin]

team is trash garbage. fix it.

 

[WetWholphin]

mercer is the only one of our first round picks on the team that i want to see play. disgusted by hughes’ trash play coming off signing a huge contract. playing out here in the NHL like its peewee. turnovers, shitty shots that miss the net, awful effort.

 

[MadDevil]

Please tell me in your infinite wisdom how stripping Nico of the "C" would turn the fortunes of the team around?

It's doubly stupid when you consider that Nico is on a 50+ point pace while shooting well below his career average this season. He's far from the biggest problem with this team. I could maybe understand it if he was complete dogshit all year or had shown a shitty attitude, but that hasn't been the case. I actually think stripping him of the "C" would just demoralize this team even more.

 

[Billdo]

Who gives a f*** if it’s not the norm? They’ve lost multiple games because of his unit alone

This is just not true. Is it a problem? Obviously. Is it THE problem? No. Not at all.

 

[NJDevs26]

idk why you are wasting your time. It's the same handful of posters on here that make the same ridiculous strawman arguments over and over and over again. They never admit they are wrong about anything, regardless of how blatantly obvious it is. And when they can't argue against logical folks, they shift the goal posts and pretend you said something you never did.

There’s plenty of that from the over the top negative people as well as the excuse makers, let’s not pretend only one side does this. While I generally agree more with the negative crowd at this point about the on ice product, it’s not like very many people here are honest brokers with their arguments - exhibit A the performative indignance of one poster in the game thread who cherry-picked one post to complain that ‘the board’ is coddling Hughes in the middle of a crap ton of posts that were doing anything but. I’ve called out the excuse making for Hughes and others myself, but doing it on a night there wasn’t any for said player is just fishing for a narrative to rail against.

 

[NJDevs26]

Handing out 8x8 for a player who is not even close to worth it just because you are afraid he leaves when he becomes UFA is f***ing loser mentality.

Hughes needs to wake the f*** up and start developing into the player he already gets paid for or else his contract is a fireable offense from Fitz.

What has this organization come to?

Funny how things have completely flipped, I’m old enough to remember when Lou got shat on left and right for letting almost every big name get to free agency because he wouldn’t pay anyone a second before he had to other than Marty, who signed bargain contracts in part because he didn’t pay an agent tax.

 

[Lou is God]

Hughes is fair game for criticism, but not to be the scapegoat.

I get this losing is frustrating, but that shouldn't stop from being fair.

 

[NJDevs26]

Hughes is fair game for criticism, but not to be the scapegoat.

I get this losing is frustrating, but that shouldn't stop from being fair.

Depends how you define scapegoat, to me Recchi is more of a scapegoat, a symptom of a much larger problem being treated as a root cause. And maybe I’d be just as bad as anyone if it wasn’t for the Masisak article clearly indicating there’s plenty of blame to go around for the power play.

Jack being a massive disappointment so far is much closer to a root cause of this team’s struggles.

 

[The Joker]

Funny how things have completely flipped, I’m old enough to remember when Lou got shat on left and right for letting almost every big name get to free agency because he wouldn’t pay anyone a second before he had to other than Marty, who signed bargain contracts in part because he didn’t pay an agent tax.

Big difference between a guy hitting UFA and a guy in his 3rd year of his ELC. There was no rush whatsoever. We payed for hype and potential only and I don't like that.

This team is all around just frustrating.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Where is the owners? Why aren't they screaming?

I'd imagine because they are laughing all the way to the bank with things like merchandise sales, television money, and the various other revenue streams that have nothing to do with winning or losing.

 

[ninetyeight]

I was one of those 'good team with just bad circumstances' people. And I believed that the 20-21 season start was the actual level of the team, but then covid hit and things went bad. So when they added Hamilton and Graves, a decent backup and had Nico finally coming in healthy, I was sure they'd surprise everyone and make the playoffs.

Jack getting injured definitely impacted his play and it would be foolish to down play that. Not only might the shoulder still bother him or make him too cautious, but more importantly he missed a bunch of games that put him a few steps behind everyone else. I expect him to start looking better late January or so. So I'm willing to give him another pass this year, but next year he has to put up 60+ points, or it doesn't look good for us.

The last few games were whatever, missing both our top2 goalies and bunch of other guys in covid protocol. But there were stretches where the team was more or less healthy, and they were still terrible. Right now the narrative is that the team went off the rails when Jack came back, but people forget that we were waiting Jack to come back and save the team. So it wasn't going very well without Hughes, we just didn't think it could go even worse. It's probably a combination of many things (PP obviously), but one big reason has to be breaking up the JohnssonMercerBratt line. That's 1-2 goals less scored per game.

Maybe a new coach/staff can wake up this team and unlock it's potential. But my believe in the skill/potential of this team has plummeted. Until they show something new, I think the whole 'competitive in 3 years' is out of the window. Which unfortunately would mean we waste Hamilton's prime years here.

In hockey things can change quickly though, but it doesn't look good.

 

[Lou is God]

I was one of those 'good team with just bad circumstances' people. And I believed that the 20-21 season start was the actual level of the team, but then covid hit and things went bad. So when they added Hamilton and Graves, a decent backup and had Nico finally coming in healthy, I was sure they'd surprise everyone and make the playoffs.

Jack getting injured definitely impacted his play and it would be foolish to down play that. Not only might the shoulder still bother him or make him too cautious, but more importantly he missed a bunch of games that put him a few steps behind everyone else. I expect him to start looking better late January or so. So I'm willing to give him another pass this year, but next year he has to put up 60+ points, or it doesn't look good for us.

The last few games were whatever, missing both our top2 goalies and bunch of other guys in covid protocol. But there were stretches where the team was more or less healthy, and they were still terrible. Right now the narrative is that the team went off the rails when Jack came back, but people forget that we were waiting Jack to come back and save the team. So it wasn't going very well without Hughes, we just didn't think it could go even worse. It's probably a combination of many things (PP obviously), but one big reason has to be breaking up the JohnssonMercerBratt line. That's 1-2 goals less scored per game.

Maybe a new coach/staff can wake up this team and unlock it's potential. But my believe in the skill/potential of this team has plummeted. Until they show something new, I think the whole 'competitive in 3 years' is out of the window. Which unfortunately would mean we waste Hamilton's prime years here.

In hockey things can change quickly though, but it doesn't look good.

It's a double edge sword, the one player that Jack really seems to connect with is Bratt, so you put him back with Johnsson and Mercer, who do you put with Jack?

And the other minor issue is while Jack and Bratt play well together, they really play the same game, they need someone who can finish AND play big. We do have Nolan Foote who would fit that role perfectly IF he's ready. He has a cannon and is not only big but plays big.

 

[Call Me Al]

jack needs a real power forward who can win puck battles and create space, and a shooter like what we thought shara was and hope holtz will be. it’s hard to find but that would really compliment his game. zacha and our other soft wingers are not it. id even try him with bastian at this point.

at this point this his mistakes are mental. i think the team losing and the new contract are leading to him putting more pressure on himself and he’s not being coached out of it. but yeah this is a bad stretch for him

 

[Lou is God]

Depends how you define scapegoat, to me Recchi is more of a scapegoat, a symptom of a much larger problem being treated as a root cause. And maybe I’d be just as bad as anyone if it wasn’t for the Masisak article clearly indicating there’s plenty of blame to go around for the power play.

Jack being a massive disappointment so far is much closer to a root cause of this team’s struggles.

"massive disappointment"? Isn't that a bit strong? The last game I saw Jack play was against Vegas when he scored the first goal of the game, he also setup Zacha twice which should have been easy tap-ins but goofball flubbed both chances, I know its been repeated many times here but drivers like him need finishers. And we don't have a finisher to spare.

But he also needs to simplify his game, just because he can make a sweet pass does it mean its called for, that backpass he tried on the PP a few games back to Hamilton is a perfect example of that.

But the root cause of our struggles to me is two fold - the special teams and our team defense. I don't know any team who can have success when those two areas are such disasters.

 

[Lou is God]

jack needs a real power forward who can win puck battles and create space, and a shooter like what we thought shara was and hope holtz will be. it’s hard to find but that would really compliment his game. zacha and our other soft wingers are not it. is even try him with bastian at this point

I'm not giving up on Shara yet, I do like his makeup and I think when a young team struggles the younger players can look so lost out there.