Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Turin]

Rebuilding and surrounding Sid with good young players are not mutually exclusive goals though.

The Tomasino and Glass acquisitions are clear examples of what Dubas is trying to do. He didn't acquire them to pump their value to trade later. He acquired them hoping they'd find their game here and be part of the rebuild moving forward.

Dubas is trying to do what JR was already doing for a while there minus sacrificing the first round pick/prospects to do it. Pens got Oleksiak, Rodrigues, Kapanen, Marino and McCann all in like a two-ish year span. Then nobody had any patience for any of that nonsense so we didn't see McCann, Rodrigues or Oleksiak at their peaks lol.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think JR got Oleksiak cuz he was dumb enough for the "big = tough" thing, and once Wilson KOd Oleksiak, JR dumped him before his unconscious body even hit the ice.

I dunno I still think this rebuild on the fly, "try to compete while Sid's still playing" shit is absolutely a fool's errand, but it is what it is.

 

[Turin]

I think JR got Oleksiak cuz he was dumb enough for the "big = tough" thing, and once Wilson KOd Oleksiak, JR dumped him before his unconscious body even hit the ice.

I dunno I still think this rebuild on the fly, "try to compete while Sid's still playing" shit is absolutely a fool's errand, but it is what it is.

Doesn't really matter though, because if they keep their high picks they're still gonna be building for the future anyway.

But yea its kind of funny that JR got Oleskiak cuz he was big and could fight Tom Wilson, then he turned into a good player and they traded him because he couldn't fight Tom Wilson. Doh.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Doesn't really matter though, because if they keep their high picks they're still gonna be building for the future anyway.

But yea its kind of funny that JR got Oleskiak cuz he was big and could fight Tom Wilson, then he turned into a good player and they traded him because he couldn't fight Tom Wilson. Doh.

Yeah they really gotta hang on to their 1sts at all costs pretty much. Especially if they do the smart thing and start removing players like Petts, EK, Rust, etc. who may have enough value to bring back some value.

 

[Pancakes]

I dunno I still think this rebuild on the fly, "try to compete while Sid's still playing" shit is absolutely a fool's errand, but it is what it is.

I think Dubas is hoping it will be a rebuild on the fly but it will functionally work the same way as a rebuild because it seems like (recent streak aside) the Pens are a lottery team even with Sid anyways lol. Though maybe they're about to go on a run and play themselves out of that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think Dubas is hoping it will be a rebuild on the fly but it will functionally work the same way as a rebuild because it seems like (recent streak aside) the Pens are a lottery team even with Sid anyways lol. Though maybe they're about to go on a run and play themselves out of that.

Yeah, I'm just hoping this team's not stupid enough to hang on to guys with value like Petts, Rust, etc. for the hell of it. But they absolutely will be.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah, I'm just hoping this team's not stupid enough to hang on to guys with value like Petts, Rust, etc. for the hell of it. But they absolutely will be.

Can't see them holding onto Petts unless they're in a playoff spot by the deadline.

Rust probably isn't going anywhere as long as that NMC is active. Though iirc he loses his protection in a year or two? Maybe gone then.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Can't see them holding onto Petts unless they're in a playoff spot by the deadline.

Rust probably isn't going anywhere as long as that NMC is active. Though iirc he loses his protection in a year or two? Maybe gone then.

Rust's NTC drops this summer. I still don't think they move him unless Sullivan's fired after the season, sadly.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Can't see them holding onto Petts unless they're in a playoff spot by the deadline.

Rust probably isn't going anywhere as long as that NMC is active. Though iirc he loses his protection in a year or two? Maybe gone then.

Yeah, Petts is gone unless they suddenly look like a legit playoff team.

Rust's NMC expires on July 1. I think his future as a Penguin will depend on how much roster movement Dubas is able to conduct prior to that point. If he's struggling to move players out, Dubas might get antsy and look to trade Rust over the summer. Otherwise, Dubas might be content to wait a bit and see what Rust's value is later in his contract.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not to come across as overly negative but Rust's already injury prone, streaky, and almost 33. So I don't imagine he's gonna be gaining value the longer they hang on to him. I think you work the phones all season to gauge interest in an off-season deal, and make the move after the dust settles on July 1st and some teams miss out on signing the forward(s) of their choice.

I don't think you should enter October with Rust and EK still Penguins tbh.

 

[Malkinstheman]

During preseason Dubas was talking about how they want players like Rust around to guide the next gen of Pens. I think he's here to stay sadly

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Bryan Rust? Lazy ass, takes like half the season off, coasts around the ice when he's not leeching off of Sid or Geno in the offensive zone, Bryan Rust? A mentor for the next generation? Man, I hope not.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas is trying to do what JR was already doing for a while there minus sacrificing the first round pick/prospects to do it. Pens got Oleksiak, Rodrigues, Kapanen, Marino and McCann all in like a two-ish year span. Then nobody had any patience for any of that nonsense so we didn't see McCann, Rodrigues or Oleksiak at their peaks lol.

JR doing this was a major factor in what kept the Penguins as competitive for as long as they were. I honestly think the large decline after JR left was primarily due to Hextall and Dubas not being able to acquire effective youth like JR was able to (and in Hextall's case, actively trading away that youth). JR was able to mask the prospect pool being dogshit by acquiring those kind of guys, once that stopped it became super obvious how bad the prospect pool was.

That's why I think it's crazy to be against trading for Hoglander, especially when the cost would only be around a 3rd.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think you ask Rust what teams he'd be willing to waive his NTC for and make the trade now if you can. Having some control where he ends up would be more appealing to him than spending a couple more months in Pittsburgh on a bottom feeder just to get traded in the offseason to anywhere, I'd think.

I think teams would have interest in Rust, but I don't think there'd be a bidding war if you waited until the offseason. It's gonna be like a 3rd in 2027 and maybe a throw in young player that needs a change of scenery. Trying to squeeze a team for a 2nd or something isn't worth the risk that he gets another injury or other players become available or whatever. If you can get something, just take it.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I think you ask Rust what teams he'd be willing to waive his NTC for and make the trade now if you can. Having some control where he ends up would be more appealing to him than spending a couple more months in Pittsburgh on a bottom feeder just to get traded in the offseason to anywhere, I'd think.

I think teams would have interest in Rust, but I don't think there'd be a bidding war if you waited until the offseason. It's gonna be like a 3rd in 2027 and maybe a throw in young player that needs a change of scenery. Trying to squeeze a team for a 2nd or something isn't worth the risk that he gets another injury or other players become available or whatever. If you can get something, just take it.

This should be Dubas top priority right now, he cannot wait to trade him or Rackell or they end up being unmovable within the next 18 months. He has to try to move them to and create some cap room going forward for us.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh I feel like Rust is the kind of guy that brings back way more than most fans would expect, while Rakell is a guy that brings back less than what most fans expect.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Tbh I feel like Rust is the kind of guy that brings back way more than most fans would expect, while Rakell is a guy that brings back less than what most fans expect.

Clearing 10 million going forward is good enough IMO
Picks, prospects and maybe a player or 2 with bad contracts ending in the next season if better than 4 more years of either player IMO

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think you ask Rust what teams he'd be willing to waive his NTC for and make the trade now if you can. Having some control where he ends up would be more appealing to him than spending a couple more months in Pittsburgh on a bottom feeder just to get traded in the offseason to anywhere, I'd think.

I think teams would have interest in Rust, but I don't think there'd be a bidding war if you waited until the offseason. It's gonna be like a 3rd in 2027 and maybe a throw in young player that needs a change of scenery. Trying to squeeze a team for a 2nd or something isn't worth the risk that he gets another injury or other players become available or whatever. If you can get something, just take it.

I don't think Rust is going anywhere or else he'd be gone by now.

Remember, he's part of "the core".

But if this were fantasyland, Detroit would be the ideal landing spot for both player and team.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I kinda think they’ll deal Rust when the NTC burns off. Out of necessity. Pens really have no trade chips. So imo if we finish bottom 5 I think it’ll force their hand. Maybe that’s hopeful?

Also I get that you need some vets and talent for your prospects to develop with but no one needs Rust for the “room” and “leadership” when 87, 71, and likely 58 are here.

 

[SEALBound]

Rust's NTC drops this summer. I still don't think they move him unless Sullivan's fired after the season, sadly.

I've been thinking about what the coming off-season looks like and I think it truly depends on the entire year. I'm not convinced that there is a move that is made or not made that changes directions. If we finish bottom 5, I think there could be drastic changes, which I would welcome. I think that could easily include Rust and/or Rakell. Might also depend on the draft pick. Let's say for argument sake we get a wing prospect like Misa that is (magically) ready to step into the NHL and you make the trade for Hoglander. Say something like Hoglander+1st for Pettersson+Acciari+3rd. If that's the case, you can cash in on someone still wanting Rust (for some reason). Not only that, but it opens up a roster spot and some cap space.

On the other hand, if we go on a run like we did late last season, I do worry that they will look at the roster as one that can compete and they will elect to keep it together. That's why I'm, sadly, actively rooting for a bad finish. Just to eliminate the "well...Maaaaaaaaaybe?" opportunity for Dubas.

Hoglander-Sid-Rakell
DOC-Malkin-Tomasino
McGroarty-Ponomarov-Puljujarvi
Hayes-Lizotte-Glass

Is what I would be shooting for next season. Ideally you get something like a Berggren+2nd back for Rust.

We also get $2.8mil back next year from the expiring retention deals. Glass is a RFA but isn't going to make no $2.5mil. I'd wager $1.5mil at best. And we have a couple expiring deals - Nieto, Beauvillier, DOC, Gryz, Pettersson (though 100% traded). If you can get DOC, Puljujarvi, and Glass back at less than $5mil combined (which is very reasonable to suggest), it could really open up the possibilities of taking on another guy for payment. Like you could talk to Calgary about Huberdeau, you could talk to NYR about Trouba, you could talk to Edmonton about Kane, NYI about Pageau...it opens up a larger Hayes-Like deal. Like, I would be willing to toy with the idea of Zibanejad if it meant we could get a decent pick or prospect out of it. Like Graves+prospect for Zibanejad+Othmann+2nd

Tbh I feel like Rust is the kind of guy that brings back way more than most fans would expect, while Rakell is a guy that brings back less than what most fans expect.

I agree that I would guess GMs around the league would, strangely, value Rust at a higher level than us but I do wonder if Rakell's scoring this year makes a GM think twice about trading for him. Last year/early this year, I would have said zero chance any GMs takes the chance but with 10 goals in 24gp on a struggling Penguins team, it makes me wonder if a market wouldn't open up. Three years left at $5mil isn't the worst contract to take on if you are looking for a do-all top 6 wing. I think we just have to balance how much we want to get out of the deal with the return. I wouldn't dump him for a 4th and a cap dump.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't think Rust is going anywhere or else he'd be gone by now.

Remember, he's part of "the core".

But if this were fantasyland, Detroit would be the ideal landing spot for both player and team.

No offense, but I can't stand the "If X was going to happen, it would have happened by now" arguments. Things change. I heard "If Malkin was going to sign for less than $7M, it would have happened by now" for like a year and then he signed hours before FA opened. Shit, people said the same thing about Rust before signing his current deal.

Maybe the Pens talked themselves into thinking they were going to be competitive this year and now realize the truth? Maybe Rust thought things would go differently for himself or the team so he blocked any trade? As I said, maybe knowing he doesn't have any trade protection in like 8 months changes things for him? Maybe something changed with the team(s) he would accept a trade to?

I'm not saying they will or even want to trade him, but "or it would have happened by now" is not a legitimate argument.

 

[SEALBound]

No offense, but I can't stand the "If X was going to happen, it would have happened by now" arguments. Things change. I heard "If Malkin was going to sign for less than $7M, it would have happened by now" for like a year and then he signed hours before FA opened. Shit, people said the same thing about Rust before signing his current deal.

Maybe the Pens talked themselves into thinking they were going to be competitive this year and now realize the truth? Maybe Rust thought things would go differently for himself or the team so he blocked any trade? As I said, maybe knowing he doesn't have any trade protection in like 8 months changes things for him? Maybe something changed with the team(s) he would accept a trade to?

I'm not saying they will or even want to trade him, but "or it would have happened by now" is not a legitimate argument.

I would agree with that. I think at the moment, we are teetering on a lot of different levels - organizationally, team strategy, and individuals.

I highly doubt there is a set path and I do think a lot will depend on the overall finish. Like if they finish bottom 5, I don't think Dubas will care about Rust. Once that trade protection is gone and your name doesn't rhyme with Bisby Brosby, you're on the block. But if you're Rust, it's gotta suck because you've played your entire career in Pittsburgh, won two cups, you have a nice cushy deal, you don't really get held accountable while also getting guaranteed top 6 minutes...why would you want to leave, lol?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

IMO, Dubi should be trying to move Ned right now before his numbers go down the toilet. Carolina and Utah are the two teams I'd be targeting wit their injuries.

 

[Ulf5]

IMO, Dubi should be trying to move Ned right now before his numbers go down the toilet. Carolina and Utah are the two teams I'd be targeting wit their injuries.

Before his numbers go down the toilet? Ah, where exactly are they now?

 

[SomeDude]

IMO, Dubi should be trying to move Ned right now before his numbers go down the toilet. Carolina and Utah are the two teams I'd be targeting wit their injuries.

Carolina already had him and from all reports, were not exactly thrilled with his play when they traded him to Detroit. I don’t think he’s going back there.

In surprised Avs didn’t target him over Wedgewood, but I suppose if they wanted Annunen to be the main piece being moved that wouldn’t work for us and our 200 other goalie prospects.