Salary Cap: Pens '24-'25 Salary Thread: The Crosbicles Volume XIX

[Gurglesons]

He's not. And to build off of what I said about the UFAs, these are guys that are largely still valued elsewhere in the NHL. Someone will pick up Noel Acciari for a draft pick. I guarantee it. Just like the Rangers acquired Ruhwedel last year.

Someone will take a flyer on Beauvillier, especially if he's got 10-12 goals.

Can’t wait to acquire some more 4ths and 5ths. The Metro will be trembling.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a higher bar than that.

No, it's more about willingness to explain. Hextall was so freakin' paranoid and unwilling to pull back the curtain even a little bit. There was an arrogance to every press conference.

Dubas is more of a politician. He understands the importance of explaining things publicly, even if it's light on significant detail. But there's enough there to at least get an idea of what he's trying to do, even if he stays quiet on the exact machinations.

I actually DO appreciate that about him... not that I believe a good 75% of what falls outta ANY GM's mouth but he's articulate and willing to talk intelligently about the inner works of the business... unlike his coach. I'll give him that.

But I dunno... I'd rather take an awkward quiet genius than a gregarious wannabe one that gives out 25+ million dollar contracts to the likes of Tristan Jarry and won't fire his failure of a coach because of mysterious reasons nobody can really explain except that he might just be a dunce and truly thinks Napoleon Beanpot is the guy.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Well Dubas isn't actually building that I don't think. To be fair to the bespectacled weenus.

Maybe, but he's the one making the calls and acquiring the players in the end.

I go back to that quote from George McPhee recently where he talked about firing Oates; You gotta coach the lineup you're given, not coach for the lineup you wish you had.

I sure wish Dubas wasn't in complete lock-step with Sullivan on everything. Big sigh.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

But that's not what the Acciari, Graves and Jarry deals were. Handing out 1 year deals to Grzelcyk and Beauvillier aren't the "shitty UFA deals" I was referencing.

What he has done since the Karlsson trade has been fine. But what he did up to the Karlsson trade was such a monumental trainwreck that left them with multiple problems. The largest problems on the roster right now are pretty much entirely from Dubas' first 2 months as GM. He has been fine at following the "bring in young talent" since then, but that doesn't erase the disaster start.

Who in the world is going to buy up Kevin Hayes, Matt Nieto, Blake Lizzotte, Cody Glass, Grizzledick, etc? Besides himself, I mean.

You guys' plan has a truck-sized hole punched through it -- none of these dudes are building value. They are losing it.

Graves and Jarry were misses. Absolutely. And Dubas has said he was wrong in his evaluation of the team when he made those deals. I think Jarry might be able to be moved in the summer with retention. Graves is probably going to have to be a buyout at some point.

Hayes and Glass were used to acquire additional assets. I doubt they'll be able to move on from Hayes, and I think they still want to see what Glass might be able to provide as a pending RFA.

Nieto can be buried without penalty, but had he not been injured last year, he had a track record of being a valuable bottom six piece that other teams would have been interested in. Injuries might have just cratered his value.

Acciari, Lizzotte, and Beauvillier are absolutely moveable. May not be for much, but they can be traded without retention for something. They may not be building a ton of value, but they're not shedding it by the pound, either.

Grzelcyk will be tougher if he doesn't improve, but he's on a one year deal.

Can’t wait to acquire some more 4ths and 5ths. The Metro will be trembling.

If those fourths land more Philip Tomasinos, hard to argue with at least trying.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I dunno man. This all seems like a HELL of a way to get a bunch of trash picks like five years down the road or whatever. But I guess we'll see.

I personally would have opted for "don't sign any of that flotsam and jetsam in the first dammed place" myself. And honestly that's only like... maybe 20ish percent hindsight. Most of those deals were certified garbo the moment pen hit paper and it shouldn't have been hard to see.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Dubas has had a fine performance as GM since committing to the "get younger" idea, and I think he has had a coherent path that he has been transparent about following. The moves he's making are fine. The Guentzel and Smith trade returns were fine. Getting a 2nd to take on Hayes is fine. Trading Yager for McGroarty was fine. Gambling on young guys for cheap like Bemstrom, Tomisano and Glass is fine. Going with cheap UFA deals as "pump and dump" candidates is fine. I just want better than "fine" before I start giving him credit, especially after how disastrous his start was.

He needs to start making moves that actually make me think "man, that's a good move" or "this team looks much better because of this move" before I start giving him credit. So far, he's doing fine following a coherent path after making some downright horrid moves to start.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't think teams at the bottom of the standings are looking to add guys to build on their value and flip them. Not all the time anyway. Sure, a guy like Granlund who has done some shit in the past and may boost his value in an elevated role could be flipped. But guys like Acciari, Nieto, Lizotte, Beau, etc. are all just warm bodies to occupy roster spots imo. There's no intention of like, flipping these dorks for a 5th or something, if you could even get a team to care enough to take a call on one of 'em.

Which is another reason I'm bummed they simply refuse to leave spots open for guys like McG, Broz, Koivunen, Pono, Puustinen, etc. to learn on the job at the NHL level. Yes, they're probably going to struggle and with guys like Poulin and Puustinen and Pono, you probably don't have anything there. But like, who gives a shit? You're playing Matt Nieto and Noel Acciari and Kevin Hayes night after night.

Hell, even Puljujarvi who has shown flashes of being an actual, contributing factor at this level despite all the doldrums that make up this team. Dude can't get a permanent spot, let alone one up the lineup, for the life of him.

It all goes back to Sullivan's absolute and steadfast refusal to coach young players or put them in a position to gauge where they're at or if they're part of the longer term plans. He outright refuses, or is entirely incapable of, coaching players that aren't finished products. He'd rather a guy like Harkins be in the lineup for 70 games because he is what he is, as opposed to trying to play McG in an elevated role in the lineup and letting him get a feel for the speed and flow of the game so he can work on becoming an impact player.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I actually DO appreciate that about him... not that I believe a good 75% of what falls outta ANY GM's mouth but he's articulate and willing to talk intelligently about the inner works of the business... unlike his coach. I'll give him that.

But I dunno... I'd rather take an awkward quiet genius than a gregarious wannabe one that gives out 25+ million dollar contracts to the likes of Tristan Jarry and won't fire his failure of a coach because of mysterious reasons nobody can really explain except that he might just be a dunce and truly thinks Napoleon Beanpot is the guy.

He hasn't specifically addressed the Jarry contract that I can recall, but he has said a couple of times that he miscalculated where the team was during his first free agency. That they weren't as close as he thought, and that he wouldn't have made those moves in hindsight. So I think he's willing to hint that he screwed up.

Regarding Sullivan, I think Dubas' willingness to talk actually painted him into a corner, and it might be the one time where he didn't articulate himself as well as he could have. I think - and this is just me parsing words - when he claimed that if you fire Sullivan, you're looking for another Sullivan, he was referring to the positive traits Sullivan has as a coach.

He probably should have just said that he believes the roster is the biggest issue facing the team and that he thinks Sullivan is still the best man for the job and left it at that. It leaves him more of an out down the road.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I do think the team's made it known Jarry is entirely available, going back to last season and especially this past summer. They're just either holding out to get value for the guy, which I think is basically impossible, or they don't want to retain and/or pay an asset to a team in order to take him. Which again, sucks as a fan, but is the right choice for where this team's at and where it's headed. /shrug

I will forget any and all of the bullshit moves Dubas has made and give him his flowers if he fires Sullivan after this season though. It's probably not gonna happen unless this team goes on like a 10 game skid, and even then it won't happen in-season imo, but man... That's like the one (1) move that needs to be made in order for things to have any promise moving forward.

I also think this "we can definitely still compete while Sid's still playing" stuff is utter bullshit and if I cared enough, I'd say it was offensive to float that kind of blatantly false shit and expect the fanbase to lap it up.

 

[Duffy13]

I think we're stuck with a combination of Graves, Karlsson and Jarry until those retained contracts come off the books. I think that happens June or July 1st. If things stay the same on that front, even if they retain on Petersson at the deadline, we're back to 3 open spaces... I think that's the timeframe for a Karlsson and Jarry trade.

Graves could work in a different system, he's serviceable in a shorter passing game with better forward support on d zone exits. A new coach or team with a system that works for him would help a lot.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think we're stuck with a combination of Graves, Karlsson and Jarry until those retained contracts come off the books. I think that happens June or July 1st. If things stay the same on that front, even if they retain on Petersson at the deadline, we're back to 3 open spaces... I think that's the timeframe for a Karlsson and Jarry trade.

Graves could work in a different system, he's serviceable in a shorter passing game with better forward support on d zone exits. A new coach or team with a system that works for him would help a lot.

I think EK's the guy they might still be able to get something back for. If you retain 50%, that's a relatively palatable cap hit for a guy who, in the right conditions, might still be able to help a team with offense from the blueline and in the transition game. I think EK at 50% is something like 60th or so in terms of blueliner cap hits around the league last I looked. Probably not looking at much more than along the lines of what JR got for Phil from the Coyotes, but I think he's movable whereas this team's just stuck with Jarry and Graves.

 

[Ryder71]

I'll admit that it's a very pro-Dubas stance.

However, I think the UFA deals are designed to be stop-gaps/lotto tickets. Especially this year. Bring them in, see if they perform enough to be attractive at the deadline, flip them for assets. It allows Dubas to use other assets to acquire the younger players and prospects he's looking for to restock the system.

I agree with your premise. There's no ambiguity here! Dubas has aptly spelled out what he's attempting to do. Some here just have a hard time accepting it. But since he traded Jake what he's done has made a ton of sense.

Unfortunately many here are more concerned about their favorite core players over the long term health and viability of the team.

 

[Duffy13]

I think EK's the guy they might still be able to get something back for. If you retain 50%, that's a relatively palatable cap hit for a guy who, in the right conditions, might still be able to help a team with offense from the blueline and in the transition game. I think EK at 50% is something like 60th or so in terms of blueliner cap hits around the league last I looked. Probably not looking at much more than along the lines of what JR got for Phil from the Coyotes, but I think he's movable whereas this team's just stuck with Jarry and Graves.

The only issue I can foresee with retaining on Karlsson now, is that's the last spot, and I think they can get more for Petersson retained this year with that strategy. If they wait until the summer, they have 3 open spots to retain on contracts... Use 2 if they wish, but keep one for an expiring contract deadline deal next year.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The only issue I can foresee with retaining on Karlsson now, is that's the last spot, and I think they can get more for Petersson retained this year with that strategy. If they wait until the summer, they have 3 open spots to retain on contracts... Use 2 if they wish, but keep one for an expiring contract deadline deal next year.

Not only this, but Karlsson is owed a $5 million signing bonus in July that I figure other teams wouldn't want to pay. If the Penguins can retain half of his deal after that bonus, any team acquiring him would only owe him like $6 million in real money over those 2 years.

I think Karlsson at a $5 million AAV and only owed $3 million a year would be very appealing for a lot of teams. Just a question of who he'd waive to go to.

 

[Duffy13]

Not only this, but Karlsson is owed a $5 million signing bonus in July that I figure other teams wouldn't want to pay. If the Penguins can retain half of his deal after that bonus, any team acquiring him would only owe him like $6 million in real money over those 2 years.

I think Karlsson at a $5 million AAV and only owed $3 million a year would be very appealing for a lot of teams. Just a question of who he'd waive to go to.

Right!! Ok, yeah, to me, it makes much more sense to wait for summer to move on from Karlsson.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The only issue I can foresee with retaining on Karlsson now, is that's the last spot, and I think they can get more for Petersson retained this year with that strategy. If they wait until the summer, they have 3 open spots to retain on contracts... Use 2 if they wish, but keep one for an expiring contract deadline deal next year.

Oh, I think they're gonna have to wait until the off-season to deal EK. Teams will have more wiggle room cap-wise to sort shit out and get a cap structure plan in place so they know how/if EK fits in and all that. Pretty tough to do in-season. EK was always an off-season deal IMO, but I think he's done here after this season's over.

I agree that they should retain on Petts, or even Rakell, at the TDL to try and maximize their value though. Hell, I'd retain on Rust when his NTC drops this summer too if it meant maximizing the value. Rust at $5M AAV is fine. Rust at like, $3-3.5M? Much more attractive to a wider range of teams imo.

 

[Gurglesons]

If those fourths land more Philip Tomasinos, hard to argue with at least trying.

And in a month or two you'll be saying Tomasino didn't succeed here because he didn't show enough ala Puustinen, Poulin, etc.

Endless circle when you don't actually learn.

At least you aren't telling me to stop commenting on your posts. I think we'd get along fine tbh. It's all just hockey BS and difference of opinion.

Oh, I think they're gonna have to wait until the off-season to deal EK. Teams will have more wiggle room cap-wise to sort shit out and get a cap structure plan in place so they know how/if EK fits in and all that. Pretty tough to do in-season.

I agree that they should retain on Petts, or even Rakell, at the TDL to try and maximize their value though.

Nobody is taking on Rakell.

EK65 maybe. But like we are taking back a bad contract and a getting a 2nd.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Nobody is taking on Rakell.

EK65 maybe. But like we are taking back a bad contract and a getting a 2nd.

I don't think you'll need to take on a bad contract if you're retaining Karlsson down to a $5 million AAV. The cap is projected to be like $95 million and Karlsson at a $5 million AAV and like $6 million in real money owed is a bargain relative to what you'd get in UFA for that price.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think you'll need to take on a bad contract if you're retaining Karlsson down to a $5 million AAV. The cap is projected to be like $95 million and Karlsson at a $5 million AAV and like $6 million in real money owed is a bargain relative to what you'd get in UFA for that price.

I’m not moving him if he doesn’t bring us value. We can probably get way more in the last year of his contract at 50% then we can with the year attached if the team just sells out to let him produce.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Circling back to Jiricek; I do think it benefits the Penguins the longer this thing drags on. Columbus has a dude that is done with the organization, and they're seemingly done with him, so it's basically a guy that they have to move eventually. The longer this takes to settle, I think the lower the asking price gets as more teams back off.

I'm aware of Jiricek's reputation as a prospect and all that, but if this team could get him without spending their 1st in any upcoming draft, and without parting with McG, I think that's a win. Even if Jiricek doesn't pan out, that's a worthy risk to take given the situation the Pens are in.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Circling back to Jiricek; I do think it benefits the Penguins the longer this thing drags on. Columbus has a dude that is done with the organization, and they're seemingly done with him, so it's basically a guy that they have to move eventually. The longer this takes to settle, I think the lower the asking price gets as more teams back off.

I'm aware of Jiricek's reputation as a prospect and all that, but if this team could get him without spending their 1st in any upcoming draft, and without parting with McG, I think that's a win. Even if Jiricek doesn't pan out, that's a worthy risk to take given the situation the Pens are in.

Yeah with it coming out that Columbus is now considering a package offer of picks, I figure it means that they're not getting the offers they like. It's just weird because Dubas saying "any prospect you want is available" and I figure McGroarty would be more appealing than a package of a future 1st.

That said, flipping Pettersson for a 1st and adding on top of that 1st for Jiricek is a no brainer if they could do it.

One comment I'd make about Jiricek: if Philly decides they want him, they'd be able to easily outbid anyone for him. 3 1sts and 3 2nds this year along with a great headliner piece they could offer in Oliver Bonk.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The dream scenario to pull off IMO:

-Pettersson at 50% to Vancouver for Pettersson and Vancouver's 2025 1st
-Murashov, Vancouver's 2025 1st and their highest 2025 3rd to Columbus for Jiricek

Sets up the top-4 defense long-term to be:

Pickering-Jiricek
Pettersson-Brunicke

That looks terrific to me. Granted you could have said the same thing about the Penguins D prospects back when they had Pouliot, Maatta, Dumoulin, Harrington and Morrow, but still. That defense is really big (all are 6'3" or taller) with a lot of puck moving talent. Jiricek would be their PP1 QB, Pickering and Brunicke would be their PP2 defensemen and all 4 would be regulars on the PK.

Are these deals realistic? I'd bet not, I doubt Vancouver would add a 1st on top of Pettersson for MP and that basically kills the premise of the 2nd deal. That said, I don't think it's so far off that it's suggesting something ridiculous.

 

[Ryder71]

pit

 

[Empoleon8771]

How are you trading Pettersson then have him in our 2hd pairing? Are there two of him?

Elias Pettersson (b.2004) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Elias Pettersson, a hockey player from Vasteras, Sweden born Feb 16 2004 who was active from 2021 to 2025.

www.hockeydb.com

This is the defensemen the Canucks would be giving up in that deal.

 

[Ryder71]

Elias Pettersson (b.2004) Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Statistics of Elias Pettersson, a hockey player from Vasteras, Sweden born Feb 16 2004 who was active from 2021 to 2025.

www.hockeydb.com

This is the defensemen the Canucks would be giving up in that deal.

Holy cheese and crackers!